Blissful Ignorance: The Character Who Saved His Life

Matt Gilhooly (00:00)
Today's guest spent the first several decades of his life in what he calls blissful ignorance, and honestly, not a bad thing. Dave Raymond grew up as the son of a legendary college football coach, stumbled into becoming the original Philly fanatic, and spent 16 years making hundreds of thousands of people fall in love with a character that he always knew deep down he was born to play. Life felt pretty close to perfect, and then, in the span of just a few weeks, it wasn't.

His mother's terminal diagnosis, the end of his marriage, a newborn son, it all arrived at once. And Dave found himself in the darkest place he'd ever been. But the very character he spent years performing became the thing that pulled him back, tick by tick, toward hope. Now at 70, Dave is a speaker, author, and happiness advocate who has spent decades studying what it actually means to build a good life. This is a conversation about bliss, loss, resilience,

And finding your purpose hiding in plain sight all along.

Dave Raymond (01:00)
and I was considering taking my own life because that freezing cold, surreal feeling

would would be taken away by a comforting warm blanket.

That that's

the way I described the thought.

Matt Gilhooly (01:47)
Hello everyone. Welcome to the Life Shift Podcast. I'm here with Dave. Hello, Dave.

Dave Raymond (01:52)
Hey Matt, how are you? Great to be here with you and just absolutely love what you're doing and so appreciate you including me.

Matt Gilhooly (01:59)
Well, thank you for saying that. I I accept that compliment in a way. This show is something that for me, like growing up, I didn't think I would ever have these types of conversations with people. And the the show comes from the experience I had when I was eight. My mom was killed in a motorcycle accident, and my parents were divorced and lived thousands of miles apart. And I live with my mom full time. So everything about my life when my dad told me that she had died.

Changed in that moment, but because of the time period, people weren't talking about stuff. And so, like my existence after that was out of fear that someone else was gonna leave. And so I had to be perfect. And I say all this because in that 20 years of failing at grief is what I refer to it as. In those 20 years, I was very aligned. I would only ask the questions that I knew that the answer was like somewhat acceptable. I wouldn't go down certain

roads or ask vulnerable questions or be vulnerable. And so now I get to have all these conversations about people's life stories and realize like nobody has a perfect life. And we're gonna run into things. And even if our experiences are so, so different, the way we feel about them or the way we move through the world because of them is very similar. So just honor that you want to be a part of it in this way.

Dave Raymond (03:22)
Mm-hmm.

Well, and I appreciate the vulnerability. I mean, I these are all things in terms of skill sets and benefits to our well being that I never knew for most of my early life into my thirties. so when I hear you talk like that, I think of myself being thirty-five, thirty-eight years younger and be totally confused with what you just said, which

Matt Gilhooly (03:47)
Same.

Dave Raymond (03:48)
Which is wonderful when you hear it and know how vitally important it is, not not not just for the health of the people that are hearing, but for your own mental well being. And and that's one of the reasons why I said that I said that I I love this work you're doing, because and you mentioned this, you know, in your 20 year span, people just didn't talk about things like that. And we've we've come a long way and there's problems with that too. but I've seen nothing but

this shift towards everyone being comfortable with being able to be vulnerable with people that they can trust. and and so what I do in this situation is just feel it's you and me. I'm trusting you. And then the people who are listening get to hear two people that trust each other and then they're they're vulnerable and and and they're learning that this is a skill set that everybody can can work on.

And I and I can see that in you just the short period of time we chatted.

Matt Gilhooly (04:45)
I appreciate that as well. I I agree with you. I think there probably are some not so great things come from people being as vulnerable

as maybe we are. We're kind of jumping into the deep end sometimes and maybe not sharing with the most trusted of sources. But I also think that it is refreshing to hear people show up as full humans. I was a very performative human for 30 plus years. And so in the last 15 years or so

It feels different. I feel like I don't have to perform for anyone anymore. It's just this is this is me. This sounds so cheesy, but this is me. I'm gonna show up as I am. And if other people aren't connecting with that, then that's how it's supposed to be. I don't need to win them over. So life is interesting in that way. And I think we'll probably go into your story. It's hard to it's hard for me to maybe see the value. I think it would have been harder to see the value in it now had I not

stumbled through so much before. I think it's a lot more meaningful to me now than it would have been, say, if none of that happened. Say I got therapy when I was eight and all things were fixed.

Dave Raymond (05:57)
That's

what that's so great. I mean, that's the way it's supposed to be. That that was how you were supposed to start becoming the human being you're supposed to become.

I I I think there there's a tremendous blessing in that and and it's and I'm not discounting the suffering on recognizing that suffering is is in many cases the catalyst to get you to be where you're supposed to. And one of the great things about happiness that I've learned and studied, I I I didn't study until my life shift, well

Matt Gilhooly (06:28)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Raymond (06:28)
after my life shift, because I thought I was lucky. But positive psychology is suggesting that when you can understand that you're gonna have good times.

in life and you're going to have awful times in life.

and that you shouldn't waste either of those. So

Matt Gilhooly (06:42)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Raymond (06:42)
that the saying of don't waste your suffering

may sound strange to some people because it's not supposed to suggest that suffering is not going to be painful. It's not gonna be something that you want to be in the middle of. but when you see what the benefits are, and not not just resilience, resilience comes if you survive it, right? And some people don't, unfortunately. But if you survive it, then you look and say, Well, I'm I'm a little bit tougher than I was, but I'm also more understandable.

Of what that means to go through it. And when I'm in the midst of it the next time, I'll want it to end, but I have actionable tools to help me through it. And knowing that on the other side, there's a there's a couple of benefits. And one being that when life is throwing the good stuff, which I am so blessed with right now in my age and my time in my life, that I'm sucking the marrow out of the joyful

times because I know that's temporary. because it's all around us. you just said, you open some.

somebody's front door and walk in and you go, wow. Right? Wow. I I had no idea. And then the young people today are have all the pictures, all the photographs, all the videos, all the social connections that makes everything look beautiful and perfect.

Matt Gilhooly (07:52)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (07:53)
Which to a certain extent is a good segue into me talking about my story because the beginning of my life all the way up into my mid-30s was about as perfect as it could be.

Matt Gilhooly (08:02)
Hmm.

Well, before you do that, can you tell us who Dave is in twenty twenty six? Like how do you show up in the world? How do you identify these days?

Dave Raymond (08:10)
Yeah,

well, number one, first and foremost, you know, I'm a I'm a a husband and I'm a father and I'm blessed to have the support and love and care of that family. But my my focus, my purpose beyond that is to talk about happiness and talk about how you can find the good life. so I'm an author, I'm a speaker, I'm

you know, a trainer, a coach, if you will, because we have done so well with telling

this story and getting people to understand that they're in charge of their happiness, their well being. And in many cases you can be a support to all the people around you. So that has gone really well. And I have a couple of partners, a small team of people that help me, but I'm a performer. That's what I did.

Early in my career and didn't understand number one that I was performing. Number two, I didn't understand I was good at it, and I didn't understand why I was good at it. So it's taken me all these years later to realize that at my heart, at my soul, my my purpose is to be an entertainer and a performer. And what I'm using those tools and skill sets to do is to engage people to understand how they can build long-term sustainable happiness in their lives and then to go out and teach it to everybody else that they come in contact with.

Matt Gilhooly (09:32)
Sounds like you found your your your purpose, your thing. Now when you say you've always been a performer, were you a performer like me? I was a performer to show everyone that I was perfect. When I wasn't, were you a performer in a more literal sense? Okay. Okay.

Dave Raymond (09:49)
Yeah, in a in a literal sense. But I you

know, I guess everybody in some cases is is doing that type of performance too. But in terms of of let's call it a craft or a skill set, in my early performance career, I just didn't give myself credit, didn't understand I was performing. I thought all the other people, the the Philly pops and the Pennsylvania ballet.

And the actors that I met, I thought, well these are real these are real actors, these are real performers. They're they're they've they've studied, they've practiced.

you know, I'm a clown is is the easiest way for me to describe it. That's not what I was thinking in my head, but

some

people don't understand. I was looking I'm just a clown. I'm goofing off, I'm stumbling around, I'm falling down, I'm I I didn't know what improv was. I was doing that exceptionally well, but I

I didn't understand it 'cause I didn't understand my skill sets and how they were designed and developed until years later.

Matt Gilhooly (10:46)
Well, I'm sure that's part of of pieces of your story. I I'd love for you to kind of paint that picture of pre life shift Dave. Like and you can go back as far as you want. You mentioned this maybe idyllic picture perfect

Dave Raymond (11:01)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (11:02)
type life that you had. So give us a give us an idea of the previous version of you or the before version of you.

Dave Raymond (11:08)
Yeah,

I I grew up in a small town, small town USA, Newark, Delaware. one of the main reasons there were two reasons why Delaware was there. One was the DuPont Company, and the other was the University of Delaware. Those were the two biggest generators of of not only income but an identity. and my father happened to be this incredibly successful football coach for the University of Delaware fighting blueheads.

He coached there for f almost 50 years. He was the head coach for 36 years. he won all 300 of his games at Delaware. He was inducted into College Football Hall of Fame, got all kinds of notoriety, considered one of the greatest college coaches in the history of college football. And I'm just a young kid growing up with him. and my mother will come into this later, but he was my hero. And all I could think about doing, my my only focus, Matt, was

to get to Delaware and play football for him. That was it. I had no other dream, no other goals. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I did I went to Delaware. I wasn't thinking about an education. I just assumed, well, I'll coach. I'll be a teacher and a coach. and and it was an i idyllic upbringing in that town. We were, you know, we were like royalty in that town.

Matt Gilhooly (12:20)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Raymond (12:20)
The only problem I had to be careful of was that my buddies would do things like run out of a check in the pizza place to, you know, to put me in trouble.

And then of course the guy that owned the pizza place knew it was me and my buddies ran out of the check. So my dad gets a phone call. My dad goes, You go back in there and make sure you pay that check. Meanwhile, I didn't know that they had left. That they told me they paid for the check. So that was the only problem

was to make sure I kept my nose clean to use a I guess a 30s analogy and and be straight and narrow. But my dad won a lot, he was successful. So

When I started playing for him, it was i he was the one, and this is so beautiful because this is a powerful tool. He he said, I want to change your perspective. You want to be a football coach, that's fine. But it's so much harder to do than what I'm doing. You won't stay at the same institution that you're coaching at like I have. It just isn't possible in the maturation of what coaching has turned into. You might make a lot of money. But he said, You're a sophomore. Let me help you get a job with the Philadelphia Phillies, which was of course our

Professional baseball team that we lived and died for. My dad knew the owners of the

Phillies. So I had access. I was living, breathing, you know, outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. I had this access. I went and did a couple of summers. That summers turned into them calling me back in my fraternity house. This is how old I was. I was on the payphone, Matt. And Mr. Giles, Bill Giles, who is the president of Eritus of the Phillies now.

And he was my boss's boss at the time. He called me on my fraternity house and said, Hey, do you want to come back for another summer? I know we didn't have another s summer in in mind for you, but we do now. I need you to go to New York and get fitted for the costume. And I'm like, I wait, Mr. Jobs, I'm sorry, costume. He said, listen, you know, just go to New York and get fitted for the costume. And and my father was the one who said, Do whatever they ask you to do. You know, you're

Matt Gilhooly (14:14)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Raymond (14:15)
gonna you'll prove your value and then you'll be valuable. You'll never know who you'll meet or what might happen. And here I am.

I go to New York, I get fitted for this costume. I meet Jim Henson's original designer, Bonnie Erickson, because Bill Giles didn't fool around. He wasn't distracted by silliness. He saw silliness and fun as the whole generator in how he was going to build Philadelphia fans. Because he was in charge of all the silliness that happened in and around the baseball game. He needed to draw fans.

Matt Gilhooly (14:42)
Right.

Dave Raymond (14:42)
And that character designed, I mean, I I I feel that I am in the lineage of the Muppets.

That character turned into the Philly fanatic. He just turned forty-eight years old this past April twenty-fifth. and I was just doing follow my dad's orders. I did whatever

they

asked me to do in those two summers before I jumped into this costume. I w I tried it on because it was delayed in its delivery. I tried it on the very first day I supposed to go out. I was concerned that, you know, I you know, these Philadelphia, these tough Philadelphia fans, you know, we're the we're the Kleenex brand of bad sports behavi behavior. But

The fact is, there's knuckleheads in every single stadium around the country at any day. we I call it the 10% stupidity factor. So we were no different. And I was afraid that 10% stupidity factor was gonna light me on fire because

they wouldn't see a Phillies fan, they would see a Muppet. And this was to become the finette the Phillies mascot, but they never said it. They just, I just showed up and it took off. Everybody fell in love with it.

know, later share what the skill sets that were making me be good at it. But I just thought anybody could do this and I decided to put my head down and be as silly as I possibly could. and that continued for I was with them for 16 years. But it was in 1990 when I had my life shift. So in the midst of all that beauty, I I like to say when I talk from the stage that I I was living a leave it the beaver life and I got smacked in the face.

Matt Gilhooly (16:10)
Mm.

Dave Raymond (16:11)
You know, even even Ward and June Cleaver couldn't help me because I got smacked in the face with the brutality of life. After having Matt this perfect I mean, I was making

Matt Gilhooly (16:20)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (16:21)
money and growing up with nothing but we love

you. You're amazing. come take a picture with granddad and take a picture with my grandkids and we're putting this on the on the refrigerator with a magnet. I mean, you are the best and and I'm getting paid to have people tell me how much they love me. And

Matt Gilhooly (16:38)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (16:39)
and you know, that

If I had the knowledge that I have now, I would have been wary to go, okay, well, when is the curve ball coming to get

Matt Gilhooly (16:47)
fair. Yeah.

Dave Raymond (16:48)
another baseball analogy? So it was a beautiful

it was a beautiful life. And I and I realized I didn't want to be a football coach. I realized many years later my dad was right. He was interviewed a number of times and I've got those interviews and he said, you know, David, he probably is a little bit too sensitive to be a football coach.

I think he could have been a good one, but I he would have to really struggle with that. He's in entertainment now and I believe that's where he should be.

Matt Gilhooly (17:12)
Mm.

Dave Raymond (17:13)
I it it's just so so the life was great and

Matt Gilhooly (17:16)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (17:16)
I was I was whistling down the street, and not aw not aware

at all.

Matt Gilhooly (17:22)
yeah, I'm curious about the that upbringing because it could be my trauma speaking, but thinking of having a father like that that everyone kind of knew and looked up to, did any of did it feel like any pressure to like keep up with that? Or was it more just like I'm gonna lean in and and just enjoy this? Cause it feels like for me, I'd be like, okay, well, now I gotta be as good as my father, or

not disappoint or all the things that could come with living a life like that.

Dave Raymond (17:50)
Yeah. I I got it

well, I think 'cause I was the youngest in the family. two boys, my my older brother Chris and my sister Debbie. She got the wrath of what do they call it? The generation gap, right? Which happens every generation. But she dad was so focused on football and and guiding young men that I don't think his firstborn daughter was

was as valuable in his mind. He he he he wasn't a misogynist. It was just he was so focused on doing what he was put on the planet to do. So that was his flaw was this selfishness. and and that's one of the one of the things I've worked on through my life. So that was the worst thing I could think of me going through. I never felt like I needed to compete with him. I loved him dearly. He took such good care of us, taught us all the basic needs of being a a good human being, loyalty.

showing up prepared on time, you know, discipline. And then my mom, who was, you know, not the most huggy, feely type of mother, although she would embrace you when you needed it, but she knew how to keep you in line. And what I discovered as I became an adult that it was my dad, his nickname is Tubby, Tubby Raymond. You know, look it up, you'll you'll hear about him. you know, mom, nothing would go

on in the Raymond family until mom anointed it. Even if Tubby wanted it, Susie needed to say it was okay. And these were things that I wasn't focused on because I had that one goal at the age of six. I just wanted to be my dad. That was

Matt Gilhooly (19:22)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (19:23)
it. And I think you were I I know you're not saying this, but I I hear you saying this. I said, Matt's giving me too much credit. I was I was so unaware and look I I'm an intelligent human being and and but

math and science and studies were not my jam. And I just wasn't aware. I wasn't paying attention. If all the tools I have now probably would have put me in a in a bad position back then if I had them when I was younger. Because I was blissful, blissfully ignorant and

and living a life. And, you know, I didn't really see many of my flaws that my dad had until until we had become friends,

like you

do with parents, if you're lucky enough to

have them with you. and then I realized he was a human being and he was selfish and wanted nothing but football and wanted nothing but men. His his parents, Grandma Pearl Grandpa Russ, had Harold, my dad, and Jane. But Harold was carrying the Raymond name on, you know, so this is in the 20s, right? The

Matt Gilhooly (20:25)
Mm-hmm. Great.

Dave Raymond (20:27)
and and that was important. I mean what what my mom did for me to understand and empowered women was

truthfully one of the biggest blessings in my life.

and and that is part of the story when

Matt Gilhooly (20:41)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (20:41)
my life shift occurred. But I just wasn't aware, man. That that was the easiest thing to say. I just everything is great. And

Matt Gilhooly (20:48)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (20:48)
I'm gonna be my dad and and I'm gonna win games and I'm gonna you know be a very successful football coach and and that was really the I had no pressure. well I will tell you the pre the only pressure we had was sports and

In this case, Delaware football was not a sport. It was life. Because if Dad lost, I mean, he won 300 games and was in the College Football Hall of Fame. But every time I sat in the stands, people were screaming at him, you know, yelling at him, you got me and it was awful.

Matt Gilhooly (21:17)
Right.

Dave Raymond (21:18)
That part of it was awful. So there was fear that if dad didn't win, we might have to move. You know, he can lose his job. Those that type of realization was when I

Matt Gilhooly (21:28)
Got it.

Dave Raymond (21:29)
started playing football in high school and understood.

the stakes of what a football coach goes through, not as a younger person. So that was the only thing that yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (21:37)
Yeah. It sounds lovely. It sounds

really like that blissful ignorance as you said, or just like kind of like just living life without really maybe thinking too much. Where, you

Dave Raymond (21:50)
Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (21:50)
know, it sounds really nice and probably allowed for a lot of things that maybe you wouldn't have done otherwise if you were an overthinker. You know, I'll like I'll raise my hand

Dave Raymond (21:58)
Yes. I I

Matt Gilhooly (21:59)
here.

Dave Raymond (22:00)
I the I want you to put a pin in that or not I want you to remember what you said to me. Because I don't want to jump ahead because what you said to me was one of the biggest benefits of my life shift that allowed me to recognize how I should be living my life. And the the key was in the blissfully ignorant times, that's good.

but what I pulled from it from somebody very special in my life was you just don't have to make it as

difficult as a lot of people around you want to make life difficult. You can still be successful and to be aware and be present and and live a a simpler life. I think if there's one thing that was the the biggest change maker in my life that started me on that platform to get me to where I am today to find my purpose.

Is understanding that life does not, and I'm not talking about suffering or struggles. It just doesn't have to be difficult. And everything around us is designed to make things difficult. you know, so so I I

well when you when you when you said that it just like hit me like a bolt of lightning, like, this is somewhere I haven't gone in a conversation before with you saying that, and I realized, yeah, that was once I realized the blissful part of my life should have.

would have s was set up to teach me that, but the life shift got in the way. Eventually

Matt Gilhooly (23:21)
Hmm. Yeah. Well, that's what

life does. And you gotta pivot and then you gotta see it. I think a big part, and we'll get into your your life shift in just a second. I think a big part for so many of us is just acknowledging something or what's what's existing in our brains or or like the way we used to be or whatever it may be, that acknowledgement and that awareness creates this space to be like, I need to lean into whatever because look at what that did for me back then.

kind of thing. So you're living this is I'm sure it's not all sunshine and rainbows, but you're living this life that feels good. Like you're doing fun things. You're with a company or you're with the the team for what you said sixteen years or something like that. So on paper life looks good. And then

Dave Raymond (24:09)
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (24:11)
what happens?

Hmm.

Dave Raymond (24:12)
Then it wasn't.

Well, you know, I I just to to edify mom a little bit, you know, she was this woman that kept us going. You know, I I I say the Raymond family stood on the giant shoulders of of my mom or Susie. And she got, you know, engaged in the mid thirties and she understood that her role was to raise the family while Dad built his career and she left her school at Michigan and came to Delaware and she finished two degrees at Delaware.

But at the age of 29, when I was three years old, mom went from a hearing woman to a deaf woman. Just like that. She had menires. Meniers is one of those spectrum issues. Huey Lewis lost his ability to sing. Mom lost all her hearing. she was given hearing aids, and you know, this never stopped her because she's yeah, she went out to teach and counsel deaf kids. She became a certified interpreter for the deaf, and we and we're watching our mother go from

A homemaker and a mother to this woman who was in charge of her life and decided she had important things to do. And because she was strange in the deaf community because she had great verbal skills, because she lost her hearing at 29. To the hearing community, she was deaf because she couldn't hear. Perfect position for her to explain to deaf kids that their deafness was no excuse not to become a holic.

Person. And we saw all this happen in front of us. And I and that's when, you know, I looking back many years later, I realized that the skill set she gave me to be great at my performance career as the Philly fanatic was the nonverbal communication. Again, Malcolm Gladwell. I had hundreds of thousands of hours of practice getting in front of my mom to communicate with her nonverbally. she had to read lips. in my younger years, not not

Aware enough to for American Sign Language, which is what she ended up cer being certified in, got better at it later on. But as a young kid, I'm just talking to her and getting in front of her. And and it was beautiful. and and I look at that and say, Hey, here's this little deaf woman from Delaware allowed me to create a personality that and and again, maybe people listeners don't know the impact the fanatic has had.

But he's not a mascot for just the Phillies or the city of Philadelphia. He's become this beacon of hope and love for people all over the world. He's been all over the world. And the and he was born in the Galapagos Islands and the fanatic went back to the Galapagos Islands to, you know, find his lineage. I mean, it's it's just this amazing character that has been cared for by the Phillies. And I go, it's all because of my mom. My mom gave me the skill set.

and then, you know, it was

thirty years later, so when mom was just fifty-nine and, you know, I'm living this great life as I described. My dad is successfully continuing to win at Delaware and mom gets diagnosed with a grade four glioblastoma brain tumor. So I I I don't know if I said this when we were live was that it was like leave it to beaver gets smacked in the face with life and I was so thoroughly

confused by what that meant. And you know, the doctor, we got the whole family together and

I was skipping in there because my dad said, This doctor's gonna tell us how we can help your mom. I had no idea what the diagnosis was. We get in there, he tells us, you know, got a grade four glioblaston brain tumor. He put his hand up and said it's about half the size of my fist, and it's in an area of a brain that we can't reach with surgery, and then just blurted out, your mom's got eight months to live. It the I it was just cold and bitter and surreal, and I I'm like, no, I I I

Looking at my brother and sister who was in the room and they they were going through the same thing. And I could see my mom's face clearly looking at the doctor because she was old school. She that wasn't the doctor, that was the Lord. And she died eight months, almost eight months to the day of that diagnosis. I mean to 24 hours, almost eight months. And it was through those times with her that she was reminding me, I I love having you here. And I had the flexibility of an amazing job that gave me more time than.

virtually anybody in the family other than my dad to spend time with her. And it was wonderful to to have that. That's about the only good thing about having a diagnosis. And with brain cancer, they were able to clear out any physical pain with steroids. So she fell asleep and went into a coma and passed. But she was telling me, keep paying attention to your family. And I had a wife of seven years, a seven year marriage and a young son, Kyle, who was born was two months old, who mom hung around to see Kyle b born and

Had this wonderful picture of her holding Kyle, her face completely puffed up with steroids, but this big smile on her face.

Matt Gilhooly (29:01)
Mm.

Dave Raymond (29:02)
And so I was thinking, that's what she meant. I need to pull together with my family. But three weeks after my mom's memorial service, my wife had had enough, and that's a whole nother story. we weren't meant to be together. and she picked up Kyle and left. And I was quickly, quickly

From this blissful life into hopelessness, telling the feel as I had to quit this job, I couldn't do it. They, of course, were this beautiful family. They continue to be part of my family today. And they said, well, work it out. And I was gonna do this one more appearance and then I re I was saying to myself, I'm gonna hump come home and take care of this. And and I was considering taking my own life because that freezing cold, surreal feeling

would would be taken away by a comforting warm blanket.

That that's

the way I described the thought. I wasn't sharing it with anybody, Matt, as you know. It's not something, whether you're a high performer or just somebody that doesn't like to share this vulnerability, I wasn't about to do that. And when I went to that final appearance, I I recognized a couple of things that I kind of knew was going on that. But I in that time I was so ingrained in the fanatic's personality that when I put my super suit on and snapped the last few snaps, I became the fanatic.

And Dave Raymond was gone, except for a a a bystander.

Matt Gilhooly (30:24)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Raymond (30:25)
and that what I didn't know about positive psychology, that's what I needed. It gave me the break, and everybody's telling me they love me. There's gratitude and kindness and this that gratitude and kindness loop. And then I would take the costume off on that day that I dragged myself there, going, I can't wait to be done doing this, you know what.

Matt Gilhooly (30:43)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (30:44)
And I took the costume off and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. But

And I describe it as a tick above hopelessness. And I and I I kind of steal that from Martin Seligman because in his TED talk, when he talked about the beginning of positive psychology, he said as psychiatrists, we thought our job was to make the miserable a tick above miserable, which is a good place to be.

Matt Gilhooly (31:07)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (31:08)
So a tick above hopelessness, I wasn't thinking about self-harm anymore. It was it was floating around, but I was realizing, wait, I went to the philosophy and said, no, no.

I don't don't. And they were concerned I that I was suddenly changing course and say, no, no, give me whatever appearances you have. I'm gonna do all of them. I'll do more of them. And tick by tick by tick, the beauty of what I can do now, and I don't want to go too past the life shift shift, is to be able to edify my mom and say, not only did she help me create this character that is gonna be going on well after I'm gone, but that character was there to.

you know, save me from the brutality of watching mom, you know, lose her life to brain cancer in a in a life that didn't understand these things. I continued to be in a a in a messful state, I'll describe it, not making great decisions, not understanding, losing trust because of the broken marriage, not being able to Yeah, everything changes. And so so I'm in

Matt Gilhooly (32:04)
Right. Everything changes. Like everything.

Dave Raymond (32:08)
this whirlwind, but

But what I do see is the one thing that was saving me was was the work, the performance. And in performance and people will tell you, I used to think when I heard actors be interviewed when I was say fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, said, Well, you know, my I would never do this, but my character wouldn't. I go, What's he talking about? He's just playing a part. You know,

why why are you getting so deep into that? Well, you know, it that's the work that you do. You

you you have to really become somebody that you're not. the beauty of the Fnatic was it it wasn't a destructive personality I was inhabiting. It was this wonderful being who whose job was to be a random active kindness machine. And in positive psychology, that's one of the things you can do to be happier is to

Matt Gilhooly (32:56)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (32:57)
just take the focus off yourself and go be kind.

Matt Gilhooly (33:00)
Yeah, good thing you

weren't in some like really depressing movie and you had to go back to that character. You know,

Dave Raymond (33:03)
Yeah, yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (33:04)
like the there's definitely, you know, based on my own experiences, there's that like cynical part of me where I hear the story of you being able to kind of escape in in the fanatic and and then it it reminding you of like the good and all the things and bringing you for me, I see it as you were describing it, it was very much like,

Those are the moments that I love to just dissociate from my life and like pretend my life wasn't happening. And I see that, at least in my experience, as not a good thing, which I love that you're giving an example of where it was somewhat helpful to you to pause the real stuff and come into this.

Dave Raymond (33:51)
Yeah, and it and it was it was forced upon me. I I I'd love to say something about you if you don't mind, is that w

Matt Gilhooly (33:55)
Fair. Yeah, sure.

Dave Raymond (33:58)
when I understood you losing your mother, I I just bled for you because when I look at my scenario was I did have those eight months with mom and and I can't imagine that I would have lived what you lived with my mom. I I d honestly don't know if I could have survived having mom leave us like that. So

I

appreciate what you've overcome. And then what you're doing with that to have others understand that we're all gonna have things happen to us and and they're gonna hurt. but if we're if we're if we're practicing and doing the right things when we are not hurting, that will really help us a great deal when we are. So good for you to have been able

Matt Gilhooly (34:45)
Yeah. Well, thank you.

Dave Raymond (34:46)
to survive.

Matt Gilhooly (34:47)
Yeah, and you know, and I think what's really helpful of these conversations just in general is that like it shows that like no one's healing journey is gonna look like someone else's. Like we have to find the pieces that work for us. And so I love that one moment you felt like you you were gonna go do that last job and then find a comfort.

a comfortable blanket to end things, but you went and you experienced something different, which gave you just that little nudge that, like, okay, you know, let's calm that piece down a little bit. And then like you said, it's kind of just going in and doing more and feeling that more and that luckily being the fanatic, you know, you get that energy, which is probably a wonderful blessing in that way of like, I mean, you created

this but also just having that. What a blessing for your journey.

Dave Raymond (35:47)
Yeah, what a w a

best friend. I mean that ironically, as we learned because this was not a planned this wasn't planned for success, let me put it that way. Bill Jobs wanted to try anything he could try, and I could go through the l the the litany of things he had, like Benny Koskey, the human bomb, who would actually come in a coffin at second base and blow himself up. Not kidding you. These

Matt Gilhooly (36:08)
Great. Yeah. Glad you didn't have that one.

Dave Raymond (36:11)
Yeah.

I

would have had the means, the opportunity, and get paid all at the same time.

Matt Gilhooly (36:18)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (36:19)
and so this is what Bill did, but he never he did it right. Like he he I I'm gonna do this like it will last, but he he never believed all of them would last. So the fanatic was just done, you know, as something that they hoped would work. and so it kind of grew out of it virally, and then because Bill

I mean, Bill carried. He called he called Jim Henson. That's how we got to Bonnie. He called Jim Henson and said, I want you to make a mascot for my team. And Jim said, I'm busy. I can't do that. But the woman who was who I'm very close to, who was one of my original designers, she's created Statler and Waldorf, the two old men puppets. And and and so Bill

Matt Gilhooly (37:02)
Good thing you weren't them either.

Dave Raymond (37:04)
Yeah, right, exactly. I all of the second I I got the right well, I was given the opportunity to create the personality I wanted to, which was

Well which is what we br brought me to this was I I was lucky that it was a a part of me of this entertainment that I was honing through entertaining mom while I was communicating with her and making her laugh was because she she was a you know, she was a s a stoic. She I mean, she did the right things and said the right things and gave us the hugs and we and and I knew she loved us and she took great care of us.

But she also corrected your your behavior and and was somebody that just was was the best human being that she could be for my my mom. And when I could get her to laugh,

you know, and extend some of that personality and see more of that, as I got I I didn't get a chance to really get to know her as a friend the way I did with my dad. But I did have those eight months to get close

to it. And

And

and so, you know, to get her to laugh, that was like my that was the the jazz, right? I'm like, my gosh, this is really cool when you can make people laugh. So again, none of this did I put two and two together until reporter asked me the question and I felt like I was taking advantage of mom and I went back a week or so later and told mom this is what the question came from the reporter, and I just poo-pooed it. And my mom said, no, no, no, you know, we haven't you seen

American sign language and see the way I work with my clients. They are this the the the sign for you are beautiful is but that's not the way you do it. You know, it's and so she's saying that you you grew up with that.

Matt Gilhooly (38:53)
Right.

Dave Raymond (38:53)
You didn't know you were getting it, you just grew up with it. And and it was the only conversation that I had with mom about that, and that that was a number of years before she was diagnosed with brain cancer.

And it wasn't until after all this happened that I and and it's part of my testimony on stage is yeah, I talked about my dad being my hero, but mom I I owe my life. to mom. Mom saved my life. and and did it after he passed. That's what yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (39:21)
Yeah. But

I think you did it as well because I think as a college aged person going into something like that, you have to let I mean, there's an inhibitions piece that you have to like, you know, let go of and lean into to be as fun as you can possibly be. I remember being twenty something and being like, what are people thinking? And so

So I would give you a lot of credit too for leaning into that and just I mean, honing what you did with your mom and and having that that feeling to come back to, but like yourself,

you had

Dave Raymond (39:56)
Yeah, it

Matt Gilhooly (39:57)
to do it.

Dave Raymond (39:58)
it's taking Matt, and I appreciate you saying that. Thank you. and I've had other folks who are great performers and understand this business and are very successful come and tell me that. And even then I go, yeah, you know, not really. And then

Matt Gilhooly (40:12)
Cause it's you.

Dave Raymond (40:13)
but it's well and now, at my age, at 70, I now give myself credit. I know I was good at it. I know and

I know I'm using all of those skills to be good on stage because there was all this time when I was speaking and learning how to speak that I again wasn't giving myself credit as a performer. Now I I'm really good on stage. I'm I'm great at engaging people with storytelling so that they'll feel that we we say we want to make them think, act, and feel differently, or think, you know, feel, think and act differently. that that and that's what I'm using to

move my audiences and I know that I'm good at it because the audience members are coming and telling me and they're just like like you Matt, they're sharing something with me that's very

vulnerable. And it always humbles me because they're coming up to somebody who really is a stranger. But from that work on the stage, I'm not a stranger. I'm a trusted source to many people. And

I'm sure there's a number of people that don't feel comfortable and come and talk to me and share. enough have done this. So I go

I'm on the right path. I'm a very sp spiritual person. And I believe that everything I've done, that's the kind of that's why I feel my purpose has been fulfilled. Everything I've done has put me in this place to do this work. and and in my in my prayers, I'm always going, well, it's pretty easy. I get paid to do this, just like I did as a fanatic. And and and people applaud and they tell you that you're really great at this.

i i is that really something that you know that I should feel proud of? The answer I all skip back is like a little whack up in the head and said, You're moving people, David.

Matt Gilhooly (41:54)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (41:55)
You're you're doing this for a purpose. It's fine. You can get applauded. You know, you just don't let that go to your head. Just r you know, stay present, realize that you're not doing it for the applause, even though it feels good. And that's was the same thing that was happening with the Fanatic. It was a crucible physically.

I

was exhausted after I did it, but when I would get done taking that costume off, I always felt like wow. You know, because people are hugging you and chasing you and you know, you do see the the worst of people too, because they pick their kids up and step over the kid in a wheelchair to get their kids to the fanatic. I mean, there

Matt Gilhooly (42:27)
Yep. Yeah.

Dave Raymond (42:29)
there is that, but that's humanity.

Matt Gilhooly (42:32)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Raymond (42:32)
and and once I would I I learned about grace, it makes it easier. Just give

Matt Gilhooly (42:37)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (42:38)
those people grace, let them, and but

the performance is is what's been so impactful for me. And you mentioned the character as being my, you know, my what what in in in Native American lore, my spirit guide, right?

Matt Gilhooly (42:54)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Raymond (42:56)
or my spirit animal, although yes.

Matt Gilhooly (42:58)
Also a shield. I think it

gave you an opportunity to have a shield when you needed it. Because losing your mother were you in your 30s or so? Is that how okay?

Dave Raymond (43:08)
Yeah, yeah, it's thirty six.

Matt Gilhooly (43:09)
So losing your mom in your mid thirties and having this probably be one of the bigger shock grief moments in your life, would you say, by that point in your life? No concept.

Dave Raymond (43:20)
I had we had the only

person I could remember in my family that we lost was my Aunt Mary Kay, who we loved, but we were s so young that our parents didn't take us. She lived in Michigan and

Matt Gilhooly (43:31)
Hm. Yeah.

Dave Raymond (43:33)
we were in Newark and our parents said, We're gonna go to Mary Kay's funeral. It's you know, y you don't need to go. I don't think they w kind of old school, they didn't want us to to go through that. And that's it. That's the only grief I remember. But

Matt Gilhooly (43:45)
Yeah.

So I mean it's it's immense and it like and if you don't know how to do it, you don't know how to do it. Nobody knows how to do it until you have to experience it. But then you get more complicated because something you know, a big part of your existence with your wife and your child is now ripped apart from you as well. So it's n it's in a beautiful way you had that shield if you could if you would to like go into this little protective bubble.

for

whatever time that was, that would kind of pump you up a little bit to like infuse whatever you needed at the time to pull you out of maybe the darkest of despair. Sure, it wasn't easy. You said it was messy afterwards. There were still messy periods. It wasn't like, I took, put the costume on, and it was perfect.

Dave Raymond (44:32)
Yeah,

I mean I I I fell

in love with Christine. I believed we were soulmates, all the things that you would be told in some novel about the perfect relationship. And when I look back, we were we were the worst two people to be together. I I was selfish, she was a caretaker, she had enormous trauma in her family, all kinds of mental issues within her family, unfortunately with with her brother or sister and her

mom and dad and and and abuse just just a mess. I called her with and so sh the there's no question her DNA had she had trauma and she really went towards someone who was selfish because she was a caretaker. And neither one of us realized that until the the my mom's passing was the trigger for Christine to go, I've had enough

with no thought about timing.

And and I wasn't thinking about timing either because it was just a few weeks later was Mother's Day. It was my it was Christine's first Mother's Day.

And I went with my father on a golf trip to be with him so he wasn't alone on Mother's Day. Meanwhile, you know, so this

Matt Gilhooly (45:43)
Right, yeah.

Dave Raymond (45:44)
this marriage was not going to work. And but what I had been geared to look for was some dysfunction. And and the women that I was dating after that, it was just it got worse and worse.

And

just was not. And I lost all trust and faith in my ability to find somebody. And that's when Sandy and I stumbled onto one another. When I was at the I Matt, I was at the at the point where I said, I'm never going to go out on another date for a woman for the next two years. I'm just not going to do it. I don't want to meet anybody. I just had it and wasn't good at it. And I was at an event.

in the middle of the city and Sandy happened to be working at Wanamakers, which the my great the thing I hear every time I say Wanamakers was when I met her after I'm about to tell the story, I went back and told one of my teammates at the Phillies that I had met this girl at Wanna Maker and she immediately said, Wanamaker your wife as a joke. And I'm like, my God, no. And so she was much younger. She was 13 years younger than me. I met her.

Because somebody said you you gotta meet this girl, she'll love the fanatic. And there's a whole story to that. no, I wasn't looking at

Matt Gilhooly (46:58)
Right. But you weren't looking at the time and that's when you met her.

Dave Raymond (47:02)
in fact I I I got done in costume and I felt like I had frightened her. And I just happened to have to walk past her to go to the place. This is Watermaker's a beautiful building in Philly, and I had to go upstairs to the to the luncheon area where I was gonna have lunch and take a break.

And I apologized to her and she looked at me like I had two heads. She goes, I don't understand. I said, Well, because I was in this warm-up with a baseball cap on. And and I said, the guy in the costume. She said, No, you were the fanatic. And I said, Yeah. And I and I said, you know, we go up there every day and have lunch. You want to come have lunch? and I felt like going like this. I'm gonna ask her at the lunch when I this I just got done telling myself, I'm not doing any more of this. And so I

I played opposite George on our first date, Matt. I I'm divor I'm I'm not divorced, but I'm separated. I have you know, two and a half year old son now. you know, I'm a mess. I'm just and I I remember her, we were sitting in like a booth and we joke about this. She was physically kind of moving a little bit further away from me with each shift. She was moving a little further away from and I'm thinking, okay, good, see, done it. And

We we just hung in there and I and here's where you're where I said put a pin in it. What Sandy has taught me, and she's been you know my life coach without trying to be a life Christine was very, very, very deeply into into into life and being correct with life. She was studying to be a counselor, she became a counselor, and life had to be difficult for her.

If it was going well, she would stop and say, What's wrong? There's something wrong. And I learned that that's what I should be doing. When life is going well, I gotta go, Well, something's wrong. I'm not being honest, or they're not being honest. And Sandy, so so we I I so appreciate you giving me this this time. So Sandy and I started to form a relationship and there was a moment where we got into a fight, and that evening we were supposed to go to a party. and

I wasn't getting dressed for the party. And Sandy walked in and said, What are doing? I go, Well, I'm not going to the party. I'm mad. You know, my selfish frame is still going. When David's mad, everybody else is mad and nobody's let and she said, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Look, we'll take care of this, but we're not missing the party because we had an argument. And that was like, boom. That it doesn't have to be difficult, David.

Matt Gilhooly (49:31)
Mm.

Dave Raymond (49:32)
Doesn't have to be so you got an argument, you know, nobody's in trouble. Nobody

nobody

said things they want to take back. We just got in an argument. And we went to that party and came home and I said, I don't even remember what we are. And so this is what Sandy's done. And we've been together now well we're we've we've known each other for almost thirty five years. We celebrated our thirtieth anniversary. we we we went to Italy for our thirtieth anniversary last May. this October we'll be celebrating our thirty first, but we

We were dating for almost three years before we got married. And what you said that made me go like that was about the difficulty of of life and how it can get complex and complicated difficult. And you said something like, It doesn't have to be difficult. We can make it difficult. And that is exactly what Sandy has taught me. And I realize that is the human that is the type of human being I need to be with because that's the way I was when I was blissful. Was I just

I you know, look, there's a there you need to be aware, you need to be present, and and I I'm working on those. But being blissful and enjoying life and not making it complicated and staying away from drama, and giving people grace and not flipping them off when in traffic. And I mean, these are things that I still do, like we all do, but I know it's the wrong thing to do, and I'm trying

not to do those things. And and Sandy is really, really good at that.

And and she is a caretaker, but I've learned so much about weaning the selfishness out of me to in our early part of our relationship, when she said did something nice for me, all I step back and said, okay, what do I need to do for her? And it has completely changed me into a different human being. And that's what it's supposed to be like when you've when you've met your purposeful soulmate. because I wouldn't have

If I I would have just gone on, probably would have had another failed marriage because I the fanatic wasn't helping me get that right. I just had overcome the the pain and had built some resilience about suffering, but I didn't understand what in my heart was wrong with my decision-making ability about a a a partner. And I knew I always wanted to be a husband and a father. and I've been able to stay.

pretty tight with Kyle. He's thirty six, but he's struggling in his life. I mean, he's got some trauma DNA. I mean,

Matt Gilhooly (52:02)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Raymond (52:02)
there you know, it's not like my DNA is perfect

either.

Matt Gilhooly (52:04)
Right.

Dave Raymond (52:05)
and he's overcome a lot of things. He's he's just getting to the point where I think he's met somebody that is doing that for him. So so this is I I I need to pay you for this therapy.

Matt Gilhooly (52:18)
Well,

you know, I look at your story and this could be totally wrong, but it feels like the fanatic was what saved you and then Sandy was the one who taught you like who

Dave Raymond (52:28)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (52:28)
to be this version. Not not to give her all the credit 'cause you you did a lot of it yourself, but like kind of the guide.

Dave Raymond (52:32)
No, no, no, I

that sounds that sound to do it in a simple way, in a line in a in your diary, yes. That's exactly the way I look at it.

Matt Gilhooly (52:44)
Yeah, 'cause I mean thirty plus years, there's a lot of work that needs to to happen there and you found your purpose in those thirty years, you would say. How how recent would you say that like you stepped in and you're like, Yep, this is exactly how it's

Dave Raymond (52:59)
Well Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (53:00)
supposed to feel?

Dave Raymond (53:02)
I think in terms of giving myself credit for being good at this, it's only been in the last eleven, twelve years. And that was kind of as I was really working hard at speaking. and in terms of of understanding and diving into positive psychology, it's been probably twenty years, maybe twenty-two years of me really working on the study. So I you know, in the pandemic.

I I I took the Dr. Santos's course at at Yale virtually and it was transformative for me. But before that I was reading books and and and studying and I've I've read probably in the last five or six years, I've read everything that I can possibly get my hands on. I'm I'm reading a book from someone that I just met, Dr. Rob or Robin Hanley, I hope so, which is a real deep dive into hope.

And I remember when mom was sick that this is one of the things that doctor said was I didn't want to give you false hope. And I I've come to understand there is no such thing. You either have hope or you don't. And you have hope because like many things, Matt, that that you've done is you work at it. You know, you it's it is a it's a skill set that you have to practice. A a belief, you know, and it it doesn't have to be religious belief. You can

agnostically you could say, I I just always believe things are gonna work out all right. And and a religious faith is one where you feel through your faith that you'll never be alone. which I think in an isolated world that we're in, that's one thing where you know, where religious faith can be strong. And Sonia Laya Bomirsky, who's a a rock star in this category, wrote a book called The How of Happiness, and it's the only scientific book

Or s I should say social scientists or behavioral scientists, where they talked about religion. And that's exactly what she said, that agnostic and religious. But she felt and she said, And I'm not, I'm more of an agnostic than I am a a person of faith through religion. but I see that that religious faith of of knowing with certainty, if you're practicing, that you won't ever be alone, is is helpful. So those

You know, I as I said, I've I'm I'm happy to say I'm 70. I'm I'm hoping that I can be on the planet as long as I'm supposed to be. Not afraid of anything because I feel like I've done I'm afraid of pain, like anybody else would be, and and I don't like suffering. But whatever, however I go out, I'm not gonna feel like I didn't do something that I was supposed

Matt Gilhooly (55:32)
Mm.

Dave Raymond (55:33)
to. And that's an amazing place to be. And as you as I read the research with Dr. Brooks, Arthur C. Brooks,

this concept and and and Victor Frankel. It was all about meaning and purpose that he says allowed him to survive Auschwitz. It's you know, so I I'm blessed. So the only thing I keep saying Matt is is is and this is my kind of dark humor, when is it my turn? And my prayers are I just please I don't want to be bitter and ugly

Matt Gilhooly (56:03)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (56:03)
and and not and not be the person that I want to be when it's my turn. So

Matt Gilhooly (56:07)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Raymond (56:08)
I

I am that's my only fear in life is is wanting to deal with whatever becomes either additional struggles or an end of life moment and not do it with the grace that my mom did it with. So that that is you said what pressure you live under, that that's pressure. I I

Matt Gilhooly (56:23)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (56:24)
won't be able to go out with grace.

Matt Gilhooly (56:26)
Well, we all know it's coming at some point for all of us. So you I mean, it seems like you're on a good road to fulfilling the good part of that. So hopefully,

Dave Raymond (56:36)
Thank you.

Matt Gilhooly (56:37)
hopefully that works out for you. But let's not go there. I think that's we don't want to end with the end.

Dave Raymond (56:41)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (56:42)
but I I do wanna press again. Do you do you recall when maybe you had a feeling of like, this is my purpose?

Dave Raymond (56:55)
Yes,

I I I think that I would identify that as during the work as a speaker when I was studying, when I when I had when I was taking some specific courses in acting for speaking. Stop speaking, start performing. And so that was that was ten years ago. And met some people at Heroic Public Speaking and

That's when I started to realize, this this is performance. that's what I was doing as the fanatic. And I used to tell people when they would ask me, Do you miss it? when they were talking about retiring from the Phillies and not performing anymore. Because I performed for 17, almost 20 years after I left the Phillies. And I said, No, I I miss the fans, right? That's what I would say. But then when I would dig into that a little bit deeper during this time when I was working on the craft of

Of speaking on stage, I recognize that I am a performer and then this is what I'm supposed to do. Then the maturing of my message, where during that time I was not talking about my mother. I wasn't talking about my struggles. I was just, I would just gloss over that. And it was the folks at Rogue Public Speaking said, well, what would it sound like if you did tell a story?

And I was in a small group of people working on things that maybe we wanted to include or wouldn't excuse me. And I did it. And Amy Port, one of the one of the principals at Heroic Public Speaking, said, my gosh, David, you have to tell that story. And I go, Yeah, but it it just feels uncomfortable. Like I'm sharing this stuff. And and she said, Yeah, but people aren't gonna be listening to your story. They're gonna be thinking about theirs. Or they'll be invested in your story knowing that.

There's people around that that went through this. And and the one moment that clicked in my head that I knew I was supposed to be doing this was she asked me, What slide would you show after you're done telling this story? And I went, I don't know. She goes, You gotta show them you're okay. You know, you've

Matt Gilhooly (59:00)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Raymond (59:00)
just you've just shown them that you were almost destroyed. You

Matt Gilhooly (59:04)
Right.

Dave Raymond (59:05)
you have to lift them up, and that's and then I realized, okay. And when I started sharing that, that's when people.

There was a young girl before I did this that came to me. A 17-year-old from Fort Lauderdale, Florida. She'd come up to Philadelphia because I was, you know, I hadn't had my message defined yet. And I was speaking for the Freedoms Foundation in the Valley Forge area, right, right on the old Valley Forge battlefield at this beautiful facility there. And their whole focus is to get young kids who win this essay contest, bring them up to Philadelphia, show them about the free enterprise system, teach them about the freedoms they get in our

our country and they 40, 50 of them would be in clo in in a class each year and I would come speak to them. And it was pretty much follow your dreams, don't let things stop you, don't let negative talk stop you. And this young girl waited until everybody was done. This was one of the first times Matt that I got hit with a vulnerable moment that I was just confused by. And she was had a big smile on her face and she just said, I wanted to share something with you. And I said, please. I'm thinking, you're really good. I love this. I love that about that was really

She goes, you know, I've been thinking a lot about suicide back home. And I've decided after hearing from you two tonight, for whatever reason, I'm not thinking about that anymore. And you know, she's got blonde ponytail, big smile on her face. And I I went, and I now I'm like, Well, I can't make her look like I'm shocked because now she's opened up to me. And I said, Would you do me a favor? And she goes, Yeah. I said, When you go home, do you think you could find somebody that you trust?

That you know loves or cares about you and tell them exactly what you just told me. And she goes, okay. And she turned around and this I still see this ponytail. Just flip

Matt Gilhooly (1:00:51)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Raymond (1:00:51)
it back and forth. And here's a young person,

Matt Gilhooly (1:00:53)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (1:00:54)
17 years old, has no clue what she was saying. She didn't know the gravity of it, she didn't understand. It just said, I've been thinking about it. You know, and then th this is and that's that was before.

I got to Varogue Public Speaking. So there was this process. And but it was after that lesson and after I worked on the keynote and started sharing it and then seeing the the results of that that went, I have to be doing this. I I appreciate the business of speaking too. It's very I mean, I'm sitting here in in Huntington, Tennessee, and in a small little town, and I'm talking to 500 educators to get them excited about teaching in a an environment where teaching is not a lot of fun. And

Matt Gilhooly (1:01:38)
Well,

I see that I see yeah.

Dave Raymond (1:01:39)
You know, it's it's amazing.

Matt Gilhooly (1:01:41)
I mean, I see that girl, that story of that girl, and I see what Fnatic did for you. And I see

Dave Raymond (1:01:48)
Mm.

Matt Gilhooly (1:01:49)
that you were Fanatic for her and that was

Dave Raymond (1:01:51)
Mm.

Matt Gilhooly (1:01:52)
the shell that she needed. Like my brain does those weird things and and and sees those visuals for me, and that's what I saw. And so we never kn I think that what's powerful about that is that we never know.

How our story or how we show up in a particular moment is going to affect other people in a positive or negative way. And it's, you know, like how lucky that she encountered you at that moment in her life. Maybe she was seriously thinking about all that and and what you said or you how you showed up into the in the world that day affected her. And so I think

I think there's something very powerful about that and I'm glad that you found this purpose, even though that was before what you felt like was the most fulfilling part, but I yeah.

Dave Raymond (1:02:37)
Hi. Thank you.

This this by far, this conversation we've had as know, I a part of the part of my business draws me to podcasts. I love platforms. I have to tell you, Matt, this is one of the best conversations I've had in a long time and doing man hundreds and hundreds of these.

Matt Gilhooly (1:02:55)
Appreciate that.

Dave Raymond (1:02:56)
and because I think it's the first and what overshadows me and what I work hard on marketing is not let the fanatic overshadow me like here comes the fun guy.

Matt Gilhooly (1:03:05)
Yeah.

Dave Raymond (1:03:06)
Whoopee cushers, whoopie cushions and hand buzzers. He's gonna, yeah, we need something to entertain us and have fun. And it's taken me a long time to get people to understand that when because then when I get done with those people, they're happy, but they go, I had no idea that

Matt Gilhooly (1:03:18)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dave Raymond (1:03:19)
this is what you talked about, even though it's all right in front of them. It's just they see something, they go, I want the fanatic. there have been a couple of interviews recently where the fanatic was not the central feature of the story. and I love

fanatic as you can imagine. He was my savior. But he overshadows the importance. And and people like you, Matt, that are doing this and have done it long before I did it and are and are are purposefully doing it. it's wonderful. So I do love the the sports enthusiasts. I mean this is it my DNA. I'm still living and dying with the Phillies because they're playing very poorly right now and it's not fun.

but you know, I don't want that to overshadow the things that you're doing. And this has been a just a real wonderful conversation where I feel, you know, relaxed and as if I've gone through a therapy session. So you're I I hope it's helping listeners. It's helping me.

Matt Gilhooly (1:04:14)
Well, yeah,

I mean my goal is is two humans having an actual conversation and asking questions and and understanding each other and I I feel like I know you. Like I always feel like I know my guests so well because I get I get the the honor of of hearing your story in this way. So I have one last question for you though. It's gonna be a quick one. And it's a silly well, it I'll give you one sentence.

Dave Raymond (1:04:37)
Okay. It's gonna be hard for me. I don't answer things quick as you can tell. Okay.

Matt Gilhooly (1:04:42)
It's a silly question, but if if all you know now in this this vibrant part of your life, if you could talk to the Dave that was putting on the fanatic costume what and what he thought was his last performance, is there anything that you would want to say to him? One sentence?

Dave Raymond (1:04:59)
Be present. Be present. Soak it all in. It's it's it is amazing when you are present and look at what was really happening.

Matt Gilhooly (1:05:11)
And here you are. Here you are through all the bumps. You know, we we can look back at that your early life and how idyllic it was, but you learned so much through

Just living, I guess, you know, just like going through life without worrying as much as maybe some other people choose to or traumatic response have to. so and then and then you hit this bump and you could have folded, but you didn't. You know, and I think like you said earlier, that resilience word, like not everyone is able to find that resilience. I always say something very similar of like, if we're lucky, we're able to to find that because

Not all of us are lucky enough to take that next step because we just don't have the tools or whatever it may be. So super honored to be in your presence and to hear your story in this way and just have this this conversation because, you know, every little conversation that I have or big conversation, heals some little part of me that I was like, I didn't even know I needed to heal that part. So thank you for

Dave Raymond (1:06:14)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (1:06:15)
this.

Dave Raymond (1:06:15)
Well, thank you. I that's awesome. I appreciate you sharing that with me too. I've been my pleasure and I'll I'll come back any time.

Matt Gilhooly (1:06:23)
Well, so people can find you. Can you like tell us about like what's the best way to find you? Find what you're offering to the world. I also encourage people to like, if they hear part of your story and it resonates with them, to like reach out to you and tell you their story. So what's the best way to find you?

Dave Raymond (1:06:38)
Yeah.

The easiest thing to do is Dave RaymondSpeaks dot com is is the hub for everything, but I am very active on LinkedIn. So if you're on LinkedIn, find me and and and I'll accept a a a connection or you can just follow me. that's where everything starts. We're we're doing all kinds of things, we're building this community of happiness.

doers that we said it's a free Patreon community. That's yet to be on the website, but we're we've started it granularly and slowly and we're that's about ready to be on the website. So anybody can join that for free and you get access to a lot of the materials that we've created, access to the all the materials that all the social scientists want us to share anyway. And then you have an opportunity to to meet with with that community online and chat. So that's coming.

But all you have to do is stay in touch with us. Newsletters and and my book is there on that that is basically the a take home version of my keynote. But just go to DaveRamyspeaks.com and and boy, I'd love to hear from you. If you just wanna send me a note, that that's one of the pleasures of my work is to talk to audiences and people that have found me. So we're pleased to

Matt Gilhooly (1:07:48)
Yeah. Well we will

put we'll put the or I say we, I will put the link in the show notes so people can access you. I always encourage some someone out there, maybe they haven't shared their part of their story with anyone and maybe something you said today really clicked with them and they feel less alone. I always encourage them to reach out because there is such power in saying your story out loud for the first time. And so hopefully you don't mind that and I encourage people to do that. So

All right, we're gonna wrap this up. I just wanna say thank you again, seriously, for being a part of this.

Dave Raymond (1:08:20)
Thank you too. I appreciate your

Matt Gilhooly (1:08:23)
And thank you everyone for listening for what two hundred and eighty episodes or so now. I'm super honored to be here and for all of you to come along on this journey. And I will be back in a couple of days with a brand new episode. Thanks again, Dave.