Letting Go: The Afternoon My Mother Said It Was Time

Matt Gilhooly (00:00)
Oliver spent about 20 years building businesses in Japan, the UK, Australia, and Switzerland, and he performed on stage at the Edinburgh Festival along the way. When he brought his family home to Switzerland for what was supposed to be a year, his dad's health began to decline, and Oliver made the tough decision to stay. Years later, over a cup of tea after lunch, his mom looked at him and said that she thought it was time.

She had decided how she wanted her life to end, and she asked him to be by her side. Oliver moved in and walked that path with her, and he tells a story in his book as she chose.

This is a warm, honest conversation about love, letting go, and death.

Oliver Christen (00:41)
You know, she she came we have we it was after lunch, we had a cup of tea, and she said I think it's time. I think it's time I call Exit. And Exit was an organization that helps with assisted dying in in Switzerland.

Matt Gilhooly (01:30)
Hello everyone, welcome to the Life Shift Podcast. I am here with Oliver. Hello, Oliver.

Oliver Christen (01:35)
Hi Matt. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to it.

Matt Gilhooly (01:38)
Well, well you say that now. We'll see how it goes. No, I'm just kidding. Thank you for being a part of the Life Shift podcast and you know, wanting to share your story in this way. And so everyone listening now we were talking a little bit before recording and kind of like, yeah, we have lots of Life Shift moments in our lives. And how do we identify that? And I don't know, there's not really a science to it, but I always ask our guests to identify the one that maybe feels like the most

line in the sand of the before and after. So I look forward to hearing yours, even though I know a little bit about it and I know that it's not an easy one. And it's it's but I think it's important. I think it's what other people need to hear because when they're going through something similar, they feel very alone and they feel like, how do I how do I take another step? How do I move through the world now? And so thank you before we even get started for just wanting to share your story with me in this way.

Oliver Christen (02:33)
A pleasure.

Matt Gilhooly (02:34)
Before we get into your story, can you tell us who Oliver is in 2026? Like how do you show up in the world? How do you identify these days?

Oliver Christen (02:42)
today I'm an investor. I'm also a director of a company. I have a family of five with two adult children who are both still finishing their education and a lovely gorgeous little cat. that's a family of five. I'm also the author of As She Chose, and that's

what we're here to talk about. I love them nature, I love moving, I love be that in the mountains, be that by the lake, be that in the ocean, it doesn't matter if I'm outside, if I've in nature, I love connecting with that and being in nature. that's

Matt Gilhooly (03:22)
Is it

Oliver Christen (03:22)
yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (03:23)
is that picture behind you one you took?

Oliver Christen (03:27)
It is

Matt Gilhooly (03:28)
Yeah.

Oliver Christen (03:28)
it is not that I've been there, but it is a picture that back in my old office I needed a a particular sound absorbing feature. And this

Matt Gilhooly (03:42)
got it.

Oliver Christen (03:42)
this is this is the the subject that was available that I've found very fitting because it looks very similar to the Swiss mountains where I go.

Matt Gilhooly (03:50)
Yeah. I mean it's from the piece I can see it looks very beautiful and calming and so I guess it's serving double duty over here. Yeah. Well

Oliver Christen (03:54)
It it is. Yeah. Totally. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (03:59)
that's great. And a beautiful family is always something that, you know, we should celebrate and it sounds like you're pretty busy if you have a family of five.

Oliver Christen (04:07)
I've got a few things on, yes.

And the thing is like writing a book is one thing, but then talking about the book and all that things that comes after that. I I think if if somebody had told me what's involved in doing all of that, I I I don't know whether I would have started. But I think just from the feedback I'm getting, it's absolutely worthwhile having done it. So it's it's

Matt Gilhooly (04:31)
Yeah.

Oliver Christen (04:31)
yeah, it's good.

Matt Gilhooly (04:33)
D was it worthwhile for you, like in internally? Did you feel a catharsis or like anything during the journey? Okay.

Oliver Christen (04:40)
no no, not really. It's it because

d I had no intention of writing it. I wrote it because a lot of friends when I shared what happened, they were so intrigued, they were inspired, they said, you have to write this story down because we need to know about this. My you know, I wanna know for myself, I wanna know for my parents because my parents are aging and I wanna know what happened and how that was that experience because it sounds incredible and

Also the the palliative care nurse that was there, she said, I wish more people could go like that. So that combination kind of convinced me that I should write about it. And so I d I did. And

and and and and j well,

Matt Gilhooly (05:19)
Just check the box.

Oliver Christen (05:21)
yeah, in in a way. But then now sharing it and hearing the feedback, I just realize how important it is that I did write it.

Be you know, I hear I hear the feedback. There are so many theoretical books about dying and and death, but there is no lived experience or not enough lived experiences, because every experience is going to be different. And so if we wanna learn about those things, if we wanna take the fear away from the conversation, from the topic itself and from the conversation, then we need to talk about it. And so

if if that if me sharing the story can contribute

to people feeling less afraid and having more courage to go and have those conversations early, then I think it's absolutely worthwhile sharing the story. So yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (06:10)
I love it. I love that for you.

can you I wanna hear the story, so can you paint the picture of your who you were before this main pivotal moment that we're gonna talk about

today?

Oliver Christen (06:21)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (06:21)
And you can go back as far as you need to.

Oliver Christen (06:23)
So I was an entrepreneur. I'd been abroad for roughly 20 years, spent time building businesses in Japan, in the UK, in Australia, and in Switzerland. performed on stage in

Matt Gilhooly (06:37)
That's a that's pretty big. Okay.

Oliver Christen (06:41)
at the Edinburgh Festival. that was my hobby while I was in Japan. And

So when I was in in Australia, I built this business coaching business and obviously we were very far away because I had grown up in in in Switzerland and my parents were still in Switzerland. And so at some point there was a moment where I felt like I wanted to give the kids an experience of where dad was from, and I took the family

Home to Switzerland and initially we were gonna go for a year. And I kept working with my clients online, and during that year I noticed that my dad wasn't doing too well. And I thought, mm, if I'm in Australia, Switzerland, it's just too far if anything happens. I just had a gut feeling that I needed to stay. so that was a tough conversation with the family, because you know.

They had made promises to their friends that they'd come back or, you know, we we weren't next to the ocean where we could surf and so it was it was a challenging decision to make, but everyone understood why I had to stay. And

Matt Gilhooly (07:48)
Yeah. Did

you have a really good relationship with your parents growing up? Like that that you felt that compelled to keep your family there?

Oliver Christen (07:56)
Interesting question. I mean there was a

Matt Gilhooly (07:57)
Yeah.

Oliver Christen (07:58)
because I when I was ten I said, you'll watch one day I'll live on the other side of the world.

Matt Gilhooly (08:04)
Mm.

Oliver Christen (08:05)
And I have a feeling I would have said that in some kind of moment of anger or or something like that. And I I did I did have a good relation in a sense that they they were very protective. they like

I was my mum had lost two children before she had me, so she was very overly protective of me. but then she had to give me away at three w just to have another baby because she had lost another two after me. And so for me that was an experience of like feeling abandoned or feeling

pushed away or or rejected. And so I after that pushed her away.

for a long time and and part of that probably was also g going away, going overseas. Part of it was you know, wanting to go my own path, not having my dad dictate how I have to do things and what I have to do and and stuff like that. So I

Matt Gilhooly (09:03)
Yeah.

Oliver Christen (09:03)
felt when I used to describe in a way of if I'm in Switzerland I have the mountains

on both sides and when I think a thought, it just bounces back up back at me straight away. Whereas if I'm in Australia and my thought can have to travel around the world before it hits me in the back. So it it has a lot more

Matt Gilhooly (09:22)
Interesting.

Oliver Christen (09:23)
a lot of space of expanse expansiveness to be me. That's how I described it in Australia. And so I I did have to go away to have my own experience and have no limitations on what I could and couldn't do. And so therefore

You know, I went exploring, went to expand my horizon, went to Japan, I studied meditation, I s I stood on stage, I build a business over there. Everyone in Switzerland was telling me, You'll never get a job, you're throwing away your career, and there was all

these la la going on around me and I just had to go, Well, thanks for the feedback and I'm going this way.

Matt Gilhooly (10:01)
Yeah. Yeah.

Did you did you maintain connection with your parents while you were doing all those things? Okay.

Oliver Christen (10:07)
yeah, I always

c maintained connection, but I know it was very hard for them that I was that far away. And and you know, comparing it today, I can see when my kids are going overseas, I have WhatsApp. I can I like I have I have technology where I can be in touch at any moment. Whereas back then, there was none of that. I may have had

Matt Gilhooly (10:28)
Yeah. Send a letter.

Oliver Christen (10:30)
an internet cafe where I could have like written an email, or I may have had

To buy some phone card to go and you know f make a phone call in the or or otherwise it was the odd postcard every now and again to say, I'm okay. So,

Matt Gilhooly (10:44)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Oliver Christen (10:46)
you know, today we have a ho it's

Matt Gilhooly (10:48)
It makes it hard.

Oliver Christen (10:49)
a whole different experience. And I really in writing this, I got to appreciate how difficult this must have been for for mom and my especially my mum, because my bad dad was very busy with his business. So he he was less

family he was he was family oriented in in a sense that he was the provider, but he was also very busy with the business. So any any conversation we would

Matt Gilhooly (11:14)
Maybe a traditional role.

Oliver Christen (11:15)
have at the dinner table was about the business and what didn't work and didn't like you know. So

Matt Gilhooly (11:20)
Yeah.

It makes sense. It was i it's interesting.

Oliver Christen (11:22)
But yes, I did I did

I did stay in touch and I did make make you know a point of going back once a year. But there was also it was it was not an easy time. There was challenging conversations, there were things of, you know, what was expected of me in in all of that. There was things that I expected of them. They never came to visit me while I was living in Japan and I was lived there I lived there for seven years and they didn't come and visit it visit me there once.

my mum came and visited saw me on stage at the Edinburgh Festival and I really appreciated that she made that that travel to come and see me on stage. So but yeah, I I stayed in touch and you know, just geographically it was a di it was distant, it was with the communication not as frequent as today. So it was a very different kind of a journey.

Matt Gilhooly (12:12)
Yeah. Yeah, and you know what was interesting

to me,

is when you said that whole like that feeling of abandonment, it sits in you really deeply. Like

Oliver Christen (12:21)
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (12:24)
and e whether you know it or not, or choose to make like for me, losing my mom at eight, not a traditional abandonment, but it felt like I was abandoned. And

Oliver Christen (12:32)
Mm.

Matt Gilhooly (12:33)
because of that, like I felt like I had to be perfect for my dad, or he would also leave. Like there would

Oliver Christen (12:38)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (12:39)
and so

No, that never would have happened, but my

Oliver Christen (12:41)
Mm.

Matt Gilhooly (12:42)
gut felt that and I lived almost thirty years or maybe more than thirty years in

Oliver Christen (12:47)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (12:48)
that mentality of like I need to make sure that nobody else leaves and I need

Oliver Christen (12:52)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (12:53)
to be perfect. So I wonder if it was easy to like go to these other countries in a way because you could be the abandoner a little bit more and not be abandoned. Not to not in a negative way, but just in a

Oliver Christen (13:02)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (13:05)
subconscious way.

Oliver Christen (13:06)
I I think I think so. I think I just needed to go my own my own way. I'd I'd I needed to be not held back by any any other pe other people's opinions or my dad was a very had a very strong opinion and and so I needed to like stand up f for myself in in that regard.

And in terms of mom, it it was really only when went to Australia and I went to I went to drama school for a year, and we did some personal development work in in that workshop. And we did a workshop that was originally done by Di Martini. And in that workshop I reflected on that moment of feeling abandoned

And he or that program encouraged me to look at the flip side of that. basically saying if you there is always two sides to a story, and if

Matt Gilhooly (14:02)
Mm-hmm.

Oliver Christen (14:02)
you can see the other side, you can find the gratitude for that moment rather than having the anger or the sadness or the other feeling that is that is maybe holding you back. And so

when I did that workshop, I reflected on that moment and I s and I and I realized that I actually learned to be independent at a very early age. And so that was the the flip side of the coin. So yes, I I was given away, but I had to I had to learn to be resourceful i on my own. And I don't know whether I would have traveled as much if I hadn't had that experience.

I don't know whether I would have built all the businesses that I have if I hadn't had that. So it was just something inside me that was built at a very early age. And so it was interesting that f when I realized that all of a sudden I had I could appreciate her side of the story, why she did it and and and how difficult that would have been for her. I you know, and that was the first time that I allowed her to hug me again, you know, because for about twenty years I

always pushed her away. so yeah, it wasn't always an easy c an easy relationship, but I I I did feel that you know in Australia I I did a lot of coaching in succession planning and so my dad was still in his in his own business. he had a managing director that had a heart attack and had to retire. So

Then he had a young person that came in and that didn't work out. And so I felt like I could could bring some help in

Matt Gilhooly (15:40)
Mm-hmm.

Oliver Christen (15:40)
that situation to help him in create a succession plan, not by me being the succession plan, but by facilitating one. But he didn't want any help. But I just felt like I needed to stay around just in case, because I my my sister has a is a doctor, so she

doesn't have the business perspective I have. So I just thought I I just had a feeling I had to stay around. There had been an a a moment earlier when I was in Australia when he was in hospital and he was really not well and my intuition back then said he is going to be fine and he will recover. And I just had lots of phone calls with him and that was that was good for that moment. But then the timing was right for me to come back and to be there. I had, you know, my sister had been around

all

the time. And I've been out for 20 years abroad, living my

Matt Gilhooly (16:34)
Right.

Oliver Christen (16:34)
life, having all these experiences, learning all these things about myself and creating all these things. And and so it was time for me to come home and to be of service to the family and s in and give back in in in some

Matt Gilhooly (16:45)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Oliver Christen (16:48)
respects. And that's why I decided to to stay. And then about probably nine months after deciding to be there and creating

my own company that started off really well. My dad ended up in intensive care. and he caused his aorta ruptured, which in most cases is deadly. But thanks to my mum he survived it. yeah, so I just went to the hospital and says, Well, this is you're not going back into business, that's for sure. I will take responsibility and look after the staff.

I will invest two days a week as a business project of my business to make sure that there is a succession plan. And it will take me a few years, usually it takes three to seven years to do that, and I will but I will go and do that because in your state that you're not going back. And at that stage he accepted that and he was grateful for that and it he was in the end able to sign.

letters to the company that the the business was sold to. So that was a big that was a big relief for mum as well because he had promised her so many times that he would retire or he would

get out or he would do something. But you know so she was hoping that they were still gonna be able to have some time together still. So

Matt Gilhooly (18:03)
Right. Did it bring you guys closer together, you and your father, by doing

that?

Oliver Christen (18:07)
yeah, I think there there were other moments as well that brought my

Matt Gilhooly (18:10)
Okay.

Oliver Christen (18:10)
father and I closer together. and it was defin

it was definitely in a way it were like, you know, call it the the the the the the return of the sun or whatever

Matt Gilhooly (18:21)
Mm-hmm.

Oliver Christen (18:22)
the or it's it's in a it's in a in a way it's like a hero's journey as well of the the guy

Matt Gilhooly (18:26)
Yeah. Yeah.

Oliver Christen (18:27)
that goes away and does conquest the world or whatever whatever and then comes back and is able to be your help.

And yeah, so it definitely it definitely my mum that was another thing that helped mum and I to get closer again. I mean the first thing that got us closer again was when we had kids. know, that was she was over the moon because she desperately wanted to be a grandma and I had always said I will never have kids.

And my sister always said she would want to have kids. My sister were wasn't able to. And I was the one that made her a gr like not I. No my partner and I, we we we made her a grandmother, right? And so and that definitely brought us a lot closer. And and then helping dad out and giving her some time with dad.

that got us closer again. So it was it was we were we were at that stage at a at a coming closer stage. And and

Matt Gilhooly (19:31)
Yeah.

Oliver Christen (19:31)
then of course Dad's dad passed and I and mum had been looking after him and and trying her best to s support him at home as long as she could. And in the end he was in the hospital for three days before he before he went. And

So after he passed, there was a big hole that happened for her to go, well, now what do I do? On the one hand, she was excited because all of a sudden she didn't have to run to his schedule. She could actually decide when she was doing things on her own and and run her own journey. But at the same time, you know, there was like what's what's my purpose now? So I I

Matt Gilhooly (20:15)
Right. How long

have they been married?

Oliver Christen (20:18)
long time. A long, long, long, long, long time. I mean t totally. I mean 'cause especially

Matt Gilhooly (20:20)
Long time. Right. So that's I mean sh she was used to taking care of too, which is yeah.

Oliver Christen (20:27)
because th the he lived another seven years after the ruptured aorta. So just you know, th th

Matt Gilhooly (20:32)
Hm. She was a caretaker.

Oliver Christen (20:34)
and and there were other medical instances in between, like he at some point he died on the operating table and they revived him even though he had a living will that said he didn't want to be.

So she had all these experiences with him and then had to

look after him and sh and and she did an amazing job. And so you know, she needed to find another another per another sense of purpose, and and find her peace. So I I organized all the financial affairs so she didn't have to be worried about that. I made sure that the legal fight that was going on within the building was was settled, so that she could live in peace. And I rebuilt

the garden of the apartment block where she was so she could look after that garden because looking after a garden was always one of her highlights of of of her life and was and and having that garden she loved it. She d she spent three to four hours a day looking after that garden and weeding and looking after the plants and all sorts of things and

So that gave her a new lease on life i i in in some respects. So that was that I guess was was before.

Matt Gilhooly (21:43)
about for you? Yeah. Did that but

doing all those things is very kind, also caring and all these did that feel like because I I know the relationship that you had with her early on and the lack of hugging and all that stuff. Did that give you some kind of solace in in the relationship that you didn't have before?

Oliver Christen (22:03)
definitely. And and we had I mean, because of with the business, I was I was having lunch with them or having dinner with them maybe twice a week for for all

Matt Gilhooly (22:09)
Okay. Okay, good.

Oliver Christen (22:12)
the time it took to get the business to s to sale, which took

Matt Gilhooly (22:14)
Right.

Oliver Christen (22:15)
in the end five years. So they this was a this was a long a long p a long process

Matt Gilhooly (22:20)
Yeah, fair.

Oliver Christen (22:22)
of coming closer and closer and and she said, I f I feel like I'm only just getting to know you now and

There were a lot of moments where she you know, in a way, I think I did a lot of I had a lot of experience that she would have liked to have, but

Matt Gilhooly (22:36)
Mm.

Oliver Christen (22:37)
because my dad wasn't, just had a very different way of traveling. Like my dad needed to go and have it all mapped out, all planned out, every minute of the day, and and then we go there and then we take a photo of this and take a take a this and that and this and that. And my mom's going, Boah.

You know, I can't ca I can't keep up. I g she had to l stay awake at night to process what had happened during the day because

she was more like a f a feeling person that needed to be someplace for a while. And so she wanted to experience and she wanted to she w wanted to experience also these eastern and she was interested in these eastern philosophies. Some of the places she w they would travel to were that she felt most

drawn to were always places that didn't just have things to look at, but also had a spiritual perspective. So and I did some of those things and s so she was very curious to go, well, how did you come to this conclusion? How did you where did that come from? Tell me about this experience. So we had lots of great conversations during that time and and were very very close. So there's yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (23:44)
Yeah. I mean, I think that's

I know this is we haven't hit your main life shift moment yet,

Oliver Christen (23:48)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (23:49)
but it is a beautiful story in a way of like the kid coming home and being able to reestablish something that maybe you didn't have or growing it into something that maybe never would have been had you stayed in Australia or wherever. So I think there's a beautiful

Oliver Christen (24:03)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (24:05)
element to that, which obviously can make other things harder because things happen, right?

Oliver Christen (24:09)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (24:12)
So what what she was kind of finding her new purpose in life and playing in the garden?

Oliver Christen (24:16)
Yep. And and you know, she going for walks and meeting people and she's she was she was doing well and and then she you know, there's some health issues that started to compile, I guess. She she's had a thirty year history of high blood pressure and that brought a whole lot of calcification in her body and sometimes she couldn't feel her legs and

was tripping on things and didn't feel as stable on her on her feet anymore. And she also had, back when I was a kid, she had an accident, a car accident where she had a bad whiplash. So she often had migraines that she was battling with. She had a knee operation where the surgeon put a wrong, like put a male knee in her knee instead of a female knee. And

then denied it for two years and told her she had to go to a psych psychotherapist until another doctor confirmed that it was the wrong size and for her for her frame. And then he apologized. Great. But she had pain for the rest of her life that she was dealing

Matt Gilhooly (25:18)
Right. Right.

Oliver Christen (25:20)
with. And then then she started to have heart arrhythmias and she had seen how my dad collapsed in the park. and again he only survived because she was there and she was able to to save him.

But she just didn't wanna be she had one experience where she collapsed in the in a in the supermarket and was picked up by well meaning strangers, but sh she just did not wanna be in a ho she didn't want to end up in a hospital. She just went, They're just gonna do everything they possibly can to keep me alive and I don't want that. You

know, so that was really

a worry for her sh also with the with the high blood pressure. She she was a doctor and so she knew that the high blood blood press pressure could lead to a stroke or to a heart attack and that in a worst case scenario she would just not be mentally mentally capable anymore to make the decision on on on

how this ending of her life should be.

And that became increasingly worrying and increasingly concerning for her, especially with the with the heart arrhythmias, because they just get stronger as you Of course, the option would have been to get a pacemaker, but she had seen how the pacemaker kept my dad alive for longer than the heart would have normally allowed to. And so

Matt Gilhooly (26:33)
Right.

Oliver Christen (26:34)
the body started to use other methods that were much more unpleasant than a failing heart, I think.

Matt Gilhooly (26:40)
Interesting.

Oliver Christen (26:41)
And so look and then he had water in the lungs and i it was yeah, it was was not fun for him. And and yeah, yeah, we talked about all these things, yeah. And so

Matt Gilhooly (26:47)
Was she expressing all these things to you as as okay. Okay.

Oliver Christen (26:52)
and you know, so that was the reason he said, I don't want any more operations. I've had enough oper operations in my life and I don't want any more. I don't want a pacemaker because I know it makes dying more difficult. and so that's when one day

You

know, she she came we have we it was after lunch, we had a cup of tea, and she said think it's time. I think it's time I call Exit. And Exit was an organization that helps with assisted dying in in Switzerland. And she had been a member of that for fifteen years. So we always knew that once she felt that she couldn't be independent anymore, that she couldn't have the quality of life that she was expecting for herself.

that she would want to make that choice. But, you know, that was the moment where she just goes, I think it's time. I wanna call them and will you support me?

Matt Gilhooly (27:41)
And how did you react to that? That's a hard question at for some.

Oliver Christen (27:45)
It it is it is it seems like it and it it was the first time that it was it felt real, even though I'd known

Matt Gilhooly (27:50)
Mm-hmm.

Oliver Christen (27:51)
it for fifteen years. it's funny because about six months earlier we had a family conversation about going to Australia to see the other part of the family. And I said to my family that I have a feeling that this will be the last Christmas with mum.

And therefore I want to be I want to stay in Switzerland and be with her for that Christmas. And when she told me, it was just before Christmas. So I had a feeling that something was about, that she was approaching the end. That was

my sense. And so, in that sense, it wasn't a surprise, but still it was the first time that it actually felt real. And so how I would react it was I said, I

I support whatever you want to choose, and I also have to tell you that I personally would never choose it.

And she said, why? And I said, well, because in Switzerland, police has to be present to make sure there is no foul play. And

that she'd taken the pill herself. for me personally, I just feel like I mean, I know they're very they're trained well and they are come they come in civilian clothes and they're very respectful. And for me, it's a stranger and

I personally feel death is a very private matter. And I personally do not want to have any strangers nearby when I die. the other, the other reason I said was, you know, I've experienced myself out of this body in this lifetime. You know, in Japan, when I had my first meditation, I had an experience where I experienced myself as the the energy source that I am. And so from that moment I went.

You know, I'm I'm not this body. I am an energy source and I will leave this body at some point when I'm ready. And because I've left it, I know what the feeling was. It the feeling of being in that energy energetic space was incredible. It was unlimited, expansive, loving. It was warm. It was amazing. And it's and and in that sense, that's the message I communicated to Mum as well. I said, you know, I'm not scared of death.

I'm I think it's part of life and I feel like and I have a a sense that you will go back to your unlimited form and I'm really excited for you to

Matt Gilhooly (30:09)
Yeah.

Oliver Christen (30:09)
experience that form again because you'll be free of pain. You'll be free of your knee pain, of your legs that you can't feel, of your of your heart of your your your blood pressure and all of that. You'll be free of that.

And you'll you'll still be around energetically, but we we will just not be able to have this face-to-face conversation. We won't be able to physically hug, but you'll still be around. I'm you know, so and so then she said, Well, I have the same concerns because I said from a spiritual perspective, I don't wanna I don't wanna leave my body with assistance. Like I don't like that concept, you

Matt Gilhooly (30:45)
Mm.

Oliver Christen (30:45)
know, because assistance means that I'm

I'm not there's a difference between I'm completing life rather than I'm ending my life. You

Matt Gilhooly (30:54)
Mm.

Oliver Christen (30:55)
know, the one thing taking a pill and I'm I'm ending it. but if I'm going on a you know the the the death fast that we found, which is the VSED, as in volunte involuntary stop eating and drinking, that's a process where you have agency, you have choice every day and you choose it every day.

To continue

not eat eating and drinking. And it leads to a natural death. It needs to to the body working like cleansing itself. It leads to the the the soul cleansing itself of all desires, including food and drink. And in some cultures it's a spiritual practice that is done

under certain circumstances and

All of the circumstances that they quote have been fulfilled for my mum. So I felt it was a ver it was a good process to do. We did a lot of research. We had conversations with people that had gone through it with their family. We we had conversations with a yogi, with with we found a documentary, read research and articles

Matt Gilhooly (32:02)
Yeah.

Oliver Christen (32:02)
and all that sort of stuff, so we would know

What's in store, what we would be expecting. And I just said, you know, I would much rather move in with you and be with you until you've transitioned than you

Matt Gilhooly (32:15)
Mm.

Oliver Christen (32:15)
take a pill and be gone in half an hour.

Matt Gilhooly (32:17)
Yeah.

Oliver Christen (32:18)
And she said, Really? And she was got ulterior and said, Really, would you do that? I said, Absolutely, because you tried everything you possibly could to support Dad to s to die at home. And so the least I can do is be that person for you. And

so that was

Matt Gilhooly (32:31)
That's it's

a very mature and advanced response of you to that as well. Cause

Oliver Christen (32:39)
Mm.

Matt Gilhooly (32:39)
I I picture some of the adults in my life who would spend as much energy as they could trying to convince someone who had already made the decision to not do it

Oliver Christen (32:48)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (32:50)
and mostly not for that other person, whereas

Oliver Christen (32:52)
Hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (32:52)
you were thinking of her more so they would do be doing it because it makes them uncomfortable,

Oliver Christen (32:57)
Mm.

Matt Gilhooly (32:58)
right? And not

I I just know people in my life that would do that. And so hearing

Oliver Christen (33:01)
Yeah. And and

Matt Gilhooly (33:02)
you say this

Oliver Christen (33:03)
and it's interesting you say that because, you know, I have to maybe add that two years prior, she had a moment where f physically she wasn't doing well. And I I felt like she was going then. And she had the assessment from exit at that time. And they said she could choose it if she wanted to. But at that time I felt like it wasn't time yet.

And I took her to a to a doctor and they f they just they found that the artery to her kidney was blocked and all all it needed was a stent to the to the kidney. And as and

as soon as she had that stent, life came back and she just had another couple of years that were fabulous like where she really thrived