What He Heard: Six Words That Moved Him Across the World

Matt Gilhooly (00:00)
What if the sentence that changed your life wasn't a pep talk, but it was permission? Permission to not have to make it, permission to just go and experience it. That's what Juman received from a professor when he was 30 years old, didn't speak English, and was quietly dreaming about Broadway. He packed his bags, moved to Wisconsin, and started over, one English workbook at a time. Today he's a Broadway performer, a founding cast member of the Prom, and the first Native Korean to perform at the Tony Awards.

But none of it started with a goal. It started with a feeling and the courage to keep chasing it.

Joomin (00:33)
my acting teacher was also saying, Juman, you're not good at acting. Maybe you should follow different path.

that's more hurting, right? That's really hurtful.

I was like

Wow, that really hit me hard.

Matt Gilhooly (00:50)
You're listening to the LifeShift Podcast. I'm your host, Matt Gilhoolie. This show is built around one simple idea, that sometimes a single moment can change how we see everything. Each week, I talk with someone about the moment that shifted their life and how they learned to live differently after it. These are not stories about having it all figured out. They are stories about what it looks like to keep going once the story changes. Thank you for being here. Here's today's story.

Matt Gilhooly (01:21)
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Life Shift Podcast. I am here with Juman. Hello there.

Joomin (01:25)
Hi, how are you?

Matt Gilhooly (01:27)
What's the real answer today? I I'm good.

I'm good. I I got a little stressed out earlier when I was looking. And typically with the life shift, I'm like sixteen episodes ahead. And I think I might only be like twelve. So that if that tells you what kind of person I am, I like to

Joomin (01:44)
Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (01:44)
be really ahead and prepared for everything, but

Joomin (01:47)
Well how?

Matt Gilhooly (01:47)
pretty good besides the s little bit of stress of like, do I have enough?

Joomin (01:52)
Yeah, I love that honest answer. Thank you. Yeah, we all have

Matt Gilhooly (01:55)
And how are you?

Joomin (01:56)
like do I am I doing it enough? You know, like am I am I doing everything right? We do, yes.

Matt Gilhooly (02:01)
It's not healthy, but we do. Yeah, there's

no getting away from it. Well, thank you for wanting to be a part of the Life Shift podcast. we've been talking a little bit before, but it's it's such a joy is not the right word, but it's such a pleasure to be able to talk to people that I don't know yet about very specific moments in their lives in which from one minute to the next, everything has changed, whether that's perspective, in your case, it's

A sentence somebody said to you that kind of shifted

Joomin (02:33)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (02:34)
everything and jumbled it around. For me, it was losing my mom when I was a kid and the trauma of that and how that rippled through the rest of my life. so it's it's just like it sounds weird to say pleasure, but I learned so much about other humans.

And I've come to realize that our stories are quite different, but

the way we feel about our stories in particular moments.

It's very similar to each other because guess what? We're all human and

Joomin (03:01)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (03:02)
you know, in this in this beautiful way we can all relate to each other whether our stories are exactly the same or not. So thank you for just wanting to be a part of this.

Joomin (03:11)
Yeah, I'm very excited. Thank you for having me. I'm

Matt Gilhooly (03:13)
For sure.

Joomin (03:14)
really happy to be here to share my story. Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (03:17)
Well,

that's that's what

we hope for. There is such power in your in story and power in words, which is what your story is all about as well, along with you know, perseverance and all the things that you did along with that. But

Joomin (03:27)
Hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (03:30)
before we get into your story, can you tell us who you are in twenty twenty six? Like how do you show up in the world? How do you identify these days? Big question.

Joomin (03:37)
Hmm,

I yes, it's I love this question. I show up with honesty. My twenty twenty six self is I will accept what is coming to me and I will show up who I who I am and there's no other things. I'm just gonna be honest. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (04:01)
Is that new for you or newer? Okay.

Joomin (04:03)
Kind of. Yeah.

I think because I'm in the entertainment industry, there's a lot of you know, what if I can do this, what if I have to do that? A lot of like I have to do this, I hash I should do that, all lotta things are kind of like pressuring

to be better. But I just realized I can be just like I cannot satisfy everybody, like every single person's, you know.

So I'm just gonna be who I am and I think that's what it should be, right? And then just embracing what is special about me and just

like going deep into that question and answering that questions over and over throughout the time. I realize that that is what makes myself special. So yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (04:53)
Yeah. Does

it make life a little bit easier for you or different? Like existing, I feel like I just think of myself when I was very much in my years of performing, not necessarily in entertainment in that way, but performing outwardly what I thought everyone wanted me to be or how I should act around them or whatever it was. And then once I kind of leaned into just like

being me and doing what I want, it was it was easier because I didn't feel like I was performing all the time, but you're a performer, so does it feel easier

Joomin (05:28)
Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (05:30)
to just be you?

Joomin (05:32)
If I f I feel freedom. but also I feel some

sort of like I to be really honest,

I feel some kind of like FOMO-ish

that in my mind, to be honest. But I'm not letting it to kind of like overwhelm me.

Yeah. And I'm just like acknowledging it and then like, well, that could be great, but I'm gonna

Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (05:59)
That that's

that's a hard decision too when you're

Joomin (06:03)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (06:03)
in the industry you're in because you're seeing so much around you and so many people. There's probably pressure from other people whether they're yeah.

Joomin (06:08)
A lot of pressure. Yeah.

But actually it now helps me to kind of like empowering it

myself.

Matt Gilhooly (06:15)
Yeah.

Joomin (06:16)
Yeah. I I I'm fee I'm finding more power inside of me. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (06:21)
It.

Should we all find that, you know, and and

Joomin (06:23)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (06:23)
be comfortable with it? I'm sure it takes a lot of practice to do that as well.

Joomin (06:26)
Yes, definitely.

Matt Gilhooly (06:28)
But it's not a, you know, I made the decision and it's always perfect every time I do this, right? It there's there's stumbling blocks. You probably lean

Joomin (06:35)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (06:35)
into things that maybe you didn't want to, but you did. So

Joomin (06:40)
Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (06:40)
I think that's part of life. Well, I love that. I I I think we should all be so lucky that we can feel connected so much with ourself.

Joomin (06:50)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (06:50)
that we can trust that what we're deciding

to do is is what the world needs. It makes life, yeah. It makes life rewarding. Yeah, exactly. You took the words out of my mouth. So I'd I love I'd love to

Joomin (06:56)
Right. And it's really rewarding when you do that. Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (07:03)
kind of get into your story. And by doing that, I would I would ask you to kind of paint the picture of who you were

Joomin (07:10)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (07:11)
before this life shift moment. So give it go back as far as you need to to kind of give us who this before version of you was.

Joomin (07:17)
Yeah, so I grew up in South Korea. my family wasn't comfortable.

so I I we we were separate until I was eight. I was kinda like moving around in my aunt's house while they're making money and yeah, they're working in

Matt Gilhooly (07:33)
Okay. So your parents were elsewhere? Okay.

Joomin (07:39)
in gr my grandma was with me, like moving around with me.

Matt Gilhooly (07:45)
Okay.

Joomin (07:45)
and then Yeah, until eight. And then I

Matt Gilhooly (07:46)
So no sense of like home for you? Okay. Okay.

Joomin (07:50)
think while the reason why I'm telling you this, it's gonna be yeah, I'm gonna

Matt Gilhooly (07:54)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joomin (07:55)
reveal it later. And then I got into elementary school and I made some friends, right? And then I think like fourth grade, K pop, old K pop like a TikTok right now, but in back in the days, I was watching like this music program.

And seeing a bunch of singers singing on the stage. And then it was fun. And I got into a little like this K-pop dancing. And I was like, it was fun to make friends. So I got into dance that way. And then later in the middle school, because I danced, a friend of mine introduced me to another dancer. So in the middle school, I think three different elementary schools were putting into this one middle school. So

Some

we knew, some we didn't, right? So we're kind of like knowing trying to like get to know each other. And then a friend of mine introduced me to this now my best friend. he he showed like, so his name is Kehan. hey, Druman is also a dancer. Can you show him this like breakdance move? And then he showed me this skill called flares. And you can see in like gymnastic, like you

Like it the leg goes like this, hand goes like this. Yeah,

Matt Gilhooly (09:10)
Yep. I know what you're talking about. Yep.

Joomin (09:12)
yeah. and my time stopped and I everything went slow-mo. And like I can see v so vividly that moment. And I just it was so cool to me. And I asked him, Can you teach me this? And it took me like three months, I think, to be able to do it. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (09:32)
Wow, that's dedication.

Joomin (09:35)
But it was so fun. We're just hanging out, right? And the moment I did it, now I realize I didn't know it back then. I think I felt powerful for the first time. Because I think leading up to this moment, I because I didn't have a proper home and my family wasn't like, you know, comfortable, I was always that kind of like this kind of little introverted

Matt Gilhooly (10:00)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (10:01)
kid who is

Matt Gilhooly (10:01)
Yeah.

Joomin (10:02)
like not confident.

Right.

Matt Gilhooly (10:04)
Yeah. You didn't have a safe I mean, you had a safe place probably with your grandmother, but like you didn't have a safe place

Joomin (10:09)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (10:10)
to land, to make mistakes, to do all those things and now you found your family.

Joomin (10:13)
Yeah, always like

kinda like yeah. Like always questioning am I here? Is it okay to be here? You know, all the things that questioning

Matt Gilhooly (10:22)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (10:23)
me. But then when I was dancing, I what I really gave me what it gave me was I think I felt powerful for the first time and I couldn't stop dancing. Yeah. It was so fun. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (10:34)
Not a bad thing. Could be worse.

Joomin (10:37)
And then back then break dancing was a huge boom in Korea.

And if we immediately like six of us made it made a like dance crew and starting to like figure out dance moves. And then because we were like 1.5 generations, there were no teachers. So we had to like figure it out literally. It was like a group project to okay.

Matt Gilhooly (10:58)
Yeah. Your own like club kind of thing.

Joomin (11:02)
Yeah, like how can we and we had this VHS video of like US break dance competitions.

That's all we had. So we

Matt Gilhooly (11:09)
Okay. Yeah, so

Joomin (11:11)
can like play pause, play, pause, play, pause. So we can make a slow mo and just like like trying to figure out the momentum. Like

Matt Gilhooly (11:17)
Yeah, break it down into right.

Joomin (11:20)
yeah. It was just so amazing.

Matt Gilhooly (11:22)
And

were you doing this just like for fun with your friends, or were you like going to competitions or things like that?

Joomin (11:28)
it started w for fun, but then we we got serious and then we got really

Matt Gilhooly (11:31)
Okay. Okay.

Joomin (11:33)
good at it and then we won state championship actually, in a third year in middle school. So then it took us to different places in in South Korea to like perform. Sometimes we were in like like a how do you call this? Like a like retirement home. Yes. Or like sometimes

Matt Gilhooly (11:54)
It's practice.

Joomin (11:55)
Yes, and sometimes we perform for a the jail and the prisoners and to like

yeah to to inspire them. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (12:00)
Yeah. To entertain. Right, yeah.

Joomin (12:03)
Yeah. and then I was like, so maybe this is my path. I love doing this. So I kept pursuing it. and there's a little story. My ha and my ma my parents didn't like me doing it, so we had a little bit of a fight.

And they gave me deal like if you go to school in Seoul, like college in Seoul, we'll let you do whatever we will let you whatever you want. And I it took the deal and I studied like a year and a half, like SAT, right? And

Matt Gilhooly (12:35)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (12:35)
I create and I studied like a crazy person. And then I actually got into school

Matt Gilhooly (12:40)
That's great. What did you get in for?

Joomin (12:41)
my major actually was aerospace engineering because middle school

I was so fascinated by aliens and UFOs

Matt Gilhooly (12:50)
Okay.

Joomin (12:52)
and in space. It's how cool is that, right? There's like

Matt Gilhooly (12:54)
Yeah.

Joomin (12:55)
endless like planets and galaxies out there. It's so cool. And I was like, what else do I like? And I thought about that. Aliens and UFOs and like maybe rockets and maybe it could be really cool. I can make spaceships later, really hard, right?

Matt Gilhooly (13:07)
Yeah. Really hard too.

Joomin (13:12)
But then it really it was really fun in that way.

Matt Gilhooly (13:14)
Okay, good.

Joomin (13:15)
learning everything I probably needed in the future. So

Matt Gilhooly (13:19)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (13:19)
I wanted to be a good edit, right? yeah, and then I got into college.

Matt Gilhooly (13:24)
So where your parents didn't want you to be an entertainer? Was that the thing? Because they maybe saw it as something that wasn't

Joomin (13:30)
Right. Because

Matt Gilhooly (13:31)
professional

or money building.

Joomin (13:35)
I think I mean yeah, the because they Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (13:37)
I don't wanna put words in your mouth. Don't say yes if it's wrong.

Joomin (13:40)
Because you know, they were were they had a hard time making money. So they didn't want that for me, I think. So

they try to like really convince me and also break down like I said, it was one point five generation we are we were. So that that job, dancer job didn't really exist. It was kinda like that

culture was unfolding with us. so they didn't see it, right? What it could be. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (14:06)
Right, right. Yeah. Yeah.

And also, I mean, I don't know if this is true for for your family, but like in my family, there were when my dad was graduating or whatever, like there wasn't endless opportunity on paper, right? Like you could choose to be an accountant, you could choose to be a lawyer, a doctor, like there was just like a selection of things,

Joomin (14:28)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (14:29)
like a menu you could choose from. Here you are doing something you love and like dreaming

of

creating an

Joomin (14:36)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (14:37)
actual career versus picking a lane, which you did in college, but you know,

you wanted,

Joomin (14:42)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (14:43)
you know, what the passion was there for something that didn't quite fully exist yet.

Joomin (14:48)
Yeah, yeah. And also I didn't even know what that could bring me to life, right? Like

Matt Gilhooly (14:54)
Yeah, no. 'Cause you didn't have any examples, right?

Joomin (14:56)
right. I didn't I mean there were I saw dancers on T V, but then it was it was very different from now and then, right?

Matt Gilhooly (15:03)
Yeah. Right.

if you're talking about VHS tapes, then it was very different.

Joomin (15:08)
Yes.

yeah, and then I got into school, so they were like, he I thought they told me later they didn't think I could get in because I only had year and a half to study.

Matt Gilhooly (15:21)
Mm.

Joomin (15:22)
Yeah. So they gave me a deal so they could like, so you didn't get in, so you have to do this, this, this But I was like, I got in. So I was like,

Matt Gilhooly (15:28)
And you showed them Yeah.

Joomin (15:32)
okay, so I'm gonna do whatever I want. And then the I think

The first semester, a friend of mine, he's like, Hey, there's a show. they're looking for a dancer. Do you want to come with me? And then I went there, that kind of like rehearsing process, and then they're like, Okay, show me some moves. And I I show them some moves and like, you're hired. So I got into like a kind of dance theater show.

if I translated, it's like

Dance if you love, yeah. And it's about there's two guys, it's a nonverbal dance like show.

and there's two guys who one guy is like a modern modern dancer, and he has like a modern dancer crew, and the other guy he's like hip hop dancer, so he has like a hip hop dancer crew, and there's a girl, of course, and they're trying to win over,

Matt Gilhooly (16:26)
Of course. Yeah.

Joomin (16:27)
right? To for the girl.

And I was in the a hip hop team and I I yeah and because my parents st I my parents did better than before, but they're still kind of like worried about the tuition, how they can pay for it. And so it was actually working better that I was working that job. So it kind of like adding to yeah, take off of some of the burden for my parents. Yeah. so they're like,

They kinda like there's shifted a little bit because

I have the moment I started making money. and then after that I got into a show called The Breakout. And that show was actually went worldwide, so many different countries. And I I was able to so we did a show in London

for try-out show. That's like really rare in Korea. And it was also it was like

Five prisoners breaking out from the prison because one of one of them are very old and then his last wish is seeing his daughter for the for the last time. And then they're like talking about what what is their last wish if they can achieve that. And then they're like, Okay, we're gonna help him to see his daughter, and then we're gonna all help each other achieve that last wish. And then it's based on a

movie called Knocking on Heaven's Door, if you know. Yeah. Yeah. anyways and

Matt Gilhooly (17:55)
Mm, I'm not familiar. Was there dancing in

that or was it like an acting kind of thing?

Joomin (18:00)
So that the movie the the show was also a non-volvo dance comedy show actually. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (18:04)
Okay. Okay.

Joomin (18:06)
and then it was like hip hop and break dance and heavy and it was really fun and

Matt Gilhooly (18:10)
Okay. Yeah.

Joomin (18:12)
and yeah and then I watched Billy Elliott in London. was it was like one of our days off and then we're like in the the company were like, we have free day, what what what do you guys wanna do?

And then they're that kind of suggesting us there's a show called Billy Elliott. You guys should go watch it because it's about dancing. We were like, yeah, why not? It's free. Okay.

Matt Gilhooly (18:36)
Different different kind of dance.

Joomin (18:38)
Yeah. And we had literally no idea what it is, but we're like, okay, it's dancing. Let's go watch it. And my mind blew away. And my time stopped again. Second

time, when there's a scene.

Billy's auditioning for Royal Ballet Academy. And the f his dancing is not quite there, but one of the faculties kind of saw something in him. So before he goes out the room, the faculty is asking, What do you feel when you dance? And then Billy starts singing about how he feels, and it's called electricity. And in the middle of the number, he is flying, and I was like,

Matt Gilhooly (19:17)
I haven't seen it. I need to see

it. I haven't, yeah.

Joomin (19:19)
Yeah, it's a great show. And

I was like, whoa. And on movies also very, very I c I love the movie too. My time stopped again. He was flying. The the the slides and the audience around me, the whole theater structure, right? Like, wow. And then I I think what it struck me was I was so focused on winning because breakdancing

you go to competition and

you train for competition, meaning you train for win.

Right? But then when I saw Billy Elliott, I saw life on the stage.

Right? It's and then longevity as well. I saw grandma on the stage and like, I can work that old. I have like 50 years to work.

Matt Gilhooly (20:10)
Maybe not breakdancing.

Joomin (20:12)
Yeah, yeah. So I'm like, okay, I can do this like for next 40 years. This is great.

Matt Gilhooly (20:17)
How old were you around this time, like early twenties?

Joomin (20:20)
I was twenty or twenty one in USH,

Matt Gilhooly (20:22)
Okay.

Joomin (20:22)
yeah. and I was like, I wanna do this. I meant to do this and I came back to Korea, started learning how to sing and how to act, and I had such a hard time learning it

Matt Gilhooly (20:35)
So

Joomin (20:36)
because especially singing, because breakdancing is polar opposite, right? You everything you are building muscle.

is to hold your body upside down and you're like kinda like you kinda like

Matt Gilhooly (20:49)
Right. Stiff. Not stiff, but

Joomin (20:53)
have this like tense

Matt Gilhooly (20:55)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (20:56)
state is like a default. You're always like this. And then

Matt Gilhooly (20:58)
Yeah. More rigid.

Joomin (21:02)
yeah, and that's like that that's not something you wanna do while you're singing. But then interestingly back then not many hip breakdancers wanted to be a singer, right? So the teachers

Didn't know how to deal with me, how to teach me, literally, right?

Every d like the tools that they had didn't really work with me. And then they put me into the box this box that you're not gifted, you're not talented.

Yeah, so you shouldn't pursue this. Now I think that's such a bullshit. If I can say bullshit here.

Matt Gilhooly (21:36)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joomin (21:37)
Yeah. yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (21:39)
Well, they just didn't know what to do, so they

Joomin (21:41)
right. But I thought I was

Not talented and not gifted because they put me into that box. Right. But I didn't stop. I don't know why. Yeah. I just like kept finding a teacher who could teach me. And I found one teacher. And she I was training with her for years and I finally got into music school like five years later. Yeah. Her name is Doctor.

Matt Gilhooly (22:12)
Good for you for

holding on to that though. Was your did

Joomin (22:15)
Yeah, five years.

Matt Gilhooly (22:17)
you have like that North Star of like I want to be on stage? Like that is my goal and that's what was driving you? Or you just wanted to learn how to do those?

Joomin (22:28)
I think but what what my reasoning was if I wanna be on stage like Billy, I need to be free like Billy.

Matt Gilhooly (22:37)
Mm.

Joomin (22:38)
If I am strained with voice, then I'm not gonna be free and I will not be able to do things like Billy on the stage. So everything in my head was like a Billy. I wanna be like Billy on the stage.

so it was like I knew it was more like I have to have find a way to have this skill.

rather than like, like I wanna Yeah, it's it's something more than yeah, how can I explain this? I think I have like a mission to be i i good at this.

Matt Gilhooly (23:07)
Okay.

Joomin (23:09)
yeah and then

Matt Gilhooly (23:10)
'Cause I think some

p the reason I ask that, I think there are some people that are just like, It's Broadway or nothing, like or it's West End

Joomin (23:17)
Mm.

Matt Gilhooly (23:17)
or nothing. But it sounds like you had more curiosity in you to see to get there or learn. Is

Joomin (23:24)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (23:25)
that true?

Joomin (23:26)
Yeah, I I think I was I I didn't believe it actually. Like

Matt Gilhooly (23:31)
Okay.

Joomin (23:32)
they said you're not talented and I was like, well, because of breakdancing, I something I learned from breakdancing, you like you know, sometimes when you play piano, four years old can play like really amazing piece and like we call it gifted, right? But breakdancing, there's nothing like that. Everything you have to work.

Heart and then to make it happen. So you literally start from scratch and then you build things and then you make it happen later. And I think that mindset was in me.

So in me, because I was training for like years and years. Since that, like I was like 12, and then there was like 10 years. I've been training that mindset for 10 years.

And there's one skill called air flares. And I practiced back then, it was introduced in 1998 worldwide.

And in Korea, everyone is trying to do it multiple rounds. And nobody didn't know how to do it, then everyone's like trying to like figure out it's like a race, right? Like AI race right now. I don't know. and I practiced for two years, like every single day for like two two hours maybe.

Matt Gilhooly (24:41)
Mm.

Joomin (24:42)
And it took me two years to build it. Right? But then

Matt Gilhooly (24:45)
That's that's dedication. Most people will give up after a little bit. So that

tells a lot about your character.

Joomin (24:52)
But I also it's like it's problem solving. I can see, we me with my friend groups, we could see the improvement. The slight

Matt Gilhooly (25:02)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (25:02)
direction changes and they could do this way if you do this, if it does like that. So like we were like so problem solving mode, and it was so fun.

So fun to kind of like yeah, work on this together. Anyway,

like we I I think that mindset was in me. So

When the people told me that kind of story, I was like, Well, maybe you're right, but I don't believe that. I I'm just gonna work really hard. So like I will outshift the best version of myself. It doesn't I don't have to be the most amazing singer, but I wanna be the best version of my self as a singer.

Matt Gilhooly (25:39)
Was any part of that to prove them wrong?

Joomin (25:42)
Yes. also

Matt Gilhooly (25:42)
Okay.

Joomin (25:43)
like I I wanna prove them wrong too. Like that's that and then when I was learning acting, my acting teacher was also saying, Juman, you're not good at acting. Maybe you should follow different path. And it was like very like earnest. Like he didn't yell at me. It was very like it was like one on one and very

Matt Gilhooly (26:01)
Hm.

Joomin (26:01)
earnest. Like, Duman, I I don't think you should push that's more hurting, right? That's really hurtful.

Matt Gilhooly (26:06)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joomin (26:08)
I was like

Wow, that really hit me hard. And I was like, I actually I cried for three months. And I was like, this is what I want to do. But then two like a lot of people, I mean, there are two big teachers that told me that I shouldn't follow this path. So

I don't know what to do. But another one I said, I told you like that kind of like fueling my fire to like, you know, you should prove them wrong.

Yeah, and I was working really, really hard. and I got into music school. I mean, it took me five years, but I did get into music school, right?

Matt Gilhooly (26:44)
You did it, yeah.

Joomin (26:46)
And Dr. John, who helped me throughout and she was the professor in the school I got in. and I was always watching YouTube videos about Broadway cliffs and West in the cliffs because Billy's and like I

Matt Gilhooly (27:01)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (27:02)
was like so

fascinated by like I I I thought if you aim high you will go high. Yeah. So that wasn't like my mindset. So I was like and then my professor, you know, saw that many, many times and she was like, Jimmy, you love Broadway. You should you should go try out. And I was like, ha, that's so funny. Yeah, I wanna do it. Yeah. And then she was like, Yeah, I'm serious. You should go really try out.

Like and I was h how? And she said there's a sister school in Wisconsin. You can go without English score, like international English score, you can learn English there. That's the part of the agreement, and you can learn English there and finish the school and go to New York City and try out the Broadway. And I was like but

That sounds great, but I'm 30 and I don't know how to speak English. And I that s I don't know, 30, I'm I'm I think I'm too old. And like

Matt Gilhooly (28:05)
Mm.

Joomin (28:07)
I all the things that like, I think, yeah,

Matt Gilhooly (28:08)
You were starting to doubt yourself?

Joomin (28:10)
like this no no no no no no the older knows I'm thinking like this is like such a unrealistic thing I can pursue

Matt Gilhooly (28:19)
I mean it sound I

mean I can I can see why that would feel that way. It just it's so unknown. You would it's like

Joomin (28:24)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (28:25)
going to a foreign land it is going to a foreign land for you. And Wisconsin.

Joomin (28:27)
Foreign land and like langu new language and I

I don't know anybody in the US. It's gonna be just me. Right? And it was like yeah, and like old notes in my head, like that's that's unrealistic. That's not gonna happen. But my professor was like, Dreamen, you don't have to make it. Go there and experience as much as you can. And that could be like create

Great resources for your artistry and your growth. And I was like, hmm, if I don't have to make it and I experience it and I come back to Korea with all that experiences, yeah. There's nothing I there's nothing to lose. I

Matt Gilhooly (29:14)
What's to lose? Yeah.

Joomin (29:16)
can this is great.

Matt Gilhooly (29:18)
It's like permission, almost.

Joomin (29:20)
Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (29:20)
Like permission to not have to be at all. Just go and see it. Do it.

Joomin (29:25)
Just right, just go

see it, just experience it. I think that took such a big burden off my shoulders. And there was such a such a wise comment. Now I realize

Matt Gilhooly (29:37)
And so simple too, right?

Joomin (29:39)
so simple, but like it's just changed whole perspective of your pursuing what you love,

Matt Gilhooly (29:44)
Yeah.

Joomin (29:45)
right? And I packed my stuff in three months and came here and started learning English. Yeah. And I didn't speak English for a

For almost a year, I was an observer in this world in the US. That's like such a another like really interesting experience. Cause like

Matt Gilhooly (30:03)
I bet.

Joomin (30:04)
it's really rare to be an observer for a year and you just like stay in that that observer state to just experience the war. It's like because

Matt Gilhooly (30:16)
Do you think that's a safety thing? For you?

Joomin (30:20)
I wanted to be involved, I really.

Matt Gilhooly (30:22)
Okay.

Yeah.

Joomin (30:23)
But

then my language barrier didn't really let me. I mean I think I

was involved in in the in a little bit, but yeah, really connecting with people. I just realized language is such a big barrier because I was

Matt Gilhooly (30:36)
And you were in Wisconsin too, right?

Joomin (30:38)
in Wisconsin and we only had five Korean students in the whole school. So we were so busy we didn't really see each other, maybe like once or twice a year.

and I had a lot of international students. I I had a lot of friends who who are international students.

but we had like a big party end of the first semester, end of the year. and we were trying to talk each other and I'm trying to like connect with them, but then I just couldn't get into deep in the conversation because of my language barrier. I I could be I can feel that my conversation is only like surface level connection. And I was like really frustrated and I got out of that party.

And like I was like I I I kind of depressed. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (31:21)
Gotta go. Yeah.

Joomin (31:24)
Like I felt so empty with

Matt Gilhooly (31:25)
Right.

Joomin (31:26)
this whole like loud music, a lot of people around me drinking. And I was like trying to avoid that emptiness. I guess I was like drinking a little bit, but then I was

Matt Gilhooly (31:35)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (31:36)
like, this is not working. so I was just like Irish goodbye. And then I just walked to my dome and

Of course it's Wisconsin snowing and I was walking and like you know, you're like breath is like cold breath is coming out. It felt kinda like a movie, like a sad movie. And and I got into my dome and like I opened my English book and I was like, if I don't get through this, I will feel this for the next five years. So

I need to study like a crazy person again, like

I did to

like SAT when I when

I prepared for SA SAT. yeah, that's like my first semester. Like I would say like a yeah, January, like it was a f New New Year's, yeah, January first. And I like it really like I went to this like speak speak a pathology. do you call this? Like

Speaking pathologist. Speech language pathologist. Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (32:36)
Spe yes, speech language pathologist. Yeah.

Joomin (32:40)
I was going there to learn how to pronounce things and try like literally my best to learn English. And then interestingly, that change of perspective really helped me learning English. Yeah. Because I knew the reason why I'm doing it, rather than like I have to do this. It's a f s yeah, there's such a diff

Matt Gilhooly (32:59)
Mm-hmm. 'Cause you were losing connection y with people.

Joomin (33:04)
Yeah. It's like such a different state that you like I have to do this versus I there's a reason why I have to do this. Like to connect with people. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (33:12)
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Can be really isolating when you can't 'cause I think we take that for granted with when we live where we grew up, you know, or we live

Joomin (33:22)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (33:23)
with, you know, people that speak the same language as us or understand the culture the same as us or however that is. I mean, I've moved thirty five times in my life, so but all in the States. But even

if you've probably experienced it in the States, there there's a lot big difference between Massachusetts and Texas, right? Like

Joomin (33:41)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (33:41)
There's a lot of things like that, but there's not a language barrier. There's just an a like an understanding barrier that that happens

there. But I can imagine what it what it must feel like, how isolating it must feel without being able to have a deep conversation with the people around you. I'm sure you could always

Joomin (33:58)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (33:58)
call back home or do things like that, but it's not the same. Yeah.

Joomin (34:01)
But right, it's not the same and and

I I'm like overcompensating with like smiling,

Matt Gilhooly (34:06)
Yeah.

Joomin (34:07)
like a by body language is trying to like, Hey Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (34:09)
Right. You want to be inviting and but then when you're

when you're inviting them in and you can't have the conversation that you want is really challenging. Yeah. I want to

Joomin (34:15)
Right. I yeah, I couldn't keep the conversation going and this was really, really challenging. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (34:21)
go back to your professor though, that because I think what's so interesting to me, I've had so many of these conversations where like literally a sentence that is a very simple sentence on the surface, right? Like a just a very simple sentence, probab maybe even one you had heard before.

Joomin (34:38)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (34:38)
Right, but it hit you at the right time. She

said it and things change. And it's just always so amazing to me how it's happened to me where I might have read the same book a couple times, but then the third time I read it, this one part that I barely remembered stood out. And so therefore

Joomin (34:54)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (34:54)
I wanted to change my life because of it. Like that's

Joomin (34:57)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (34:57)
what what your story sounds like to me is that like, you know, maybe other people had said this to you in a more flippant way or just like just very casually, but this

She was like really convincing you, like, here's your permission.

Joomin (35:09)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (35:10)
Like, you don't have to go win a Tony. But

Joomin (35:15)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (35:15)
you can go and if you win a Tony, cool. But you could go and experience and audition and and do all the things and live a life instead of trying to achieve a life, I guess.

Joomin (35:27)
Yeah. It's really interesting because when I was like like thinking about that question, right? Should I go or not? I was asking around my friends and then people that I trust, you know, in the ex same industry. And everybody literally said no to me. Like Jiman, you're you're 30. You don't how you don't know how to speak English. And nobody's working in Broadway.

I don't think that's a great idea. And because now I realized.

They're so focused on the result. You have if you go there, you have to make it, right?

But what gave me permission was, like my professor told me, was just experience it and that should be enough for you. That's

such a two different things. And and now I learned that you should dream your dream, not as noun form, but as a verb form. Because let's say you my dream is a Broadway

performer.

And until I become broadband performer, my life is constant failure. And if you're lucky enough to become a Broadway performer, then you just lost your dream, right?

Matt Gilhooly (36:37)
Hmm. That's hard.

Joomin (36:38)
But if you

right, and then I s I've seen including me, I've seen so many people who become a who made their Broadway debut and then so lost about like what now? Right? After two years of performing,

Matt Gilhooly (36:52)
Yeah. Right.

Joomin (36:54)
they're like what what what now? Yeah. And then they're really

Matt Gilhooly (36:58)
Right. Yeah, that's

Joomin (37:00)
trying to find what is what is next for them. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (37:04)
Yeah. So you kinda

have to find what you're talking about, or what you said at the very beginning of like finding that comfort within to what is intrinsically driving me, what is in my soul that I want to fulfill or fill this cup with, not a destination, but rather an experience of some sort.

Joomin (37:24)
Right, right. And then like if like when you dream your dream as a verb form, then there's a action and practice will make you happy or feeling reward, whatever that positive rewarding feeling.

Matt Gilhooly (37:37)
Yeah.

Joomin (37:38)
And it could unfold like ten thousand different ways. And you can just following the action that you love every day. And it will become it will make their own its path, right? Yeah. And

Matt Gilhooly (37:51)
Right. Yeah. Instead of expectations,

you have

Joomin (37:54)
Yes.

And then the th that's the I think that's the best way to just let life surprise us, right? It is really hard.

Matt Gilhooly (38:01)
It's so hard though. I mean, you say it like you

say it like it's just like so easy to do, but so many of us are conditioned

Joomin (38:10)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (38:11)
to to have that expectation

Joomin (38:14)
Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (38:15)
and that success slash failure and not what brings you joy. Like what

Joomin (38:19)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (38:20)
is it that fills your cup? Do more of that because your

Joomin (38:22)
Yeah. Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (38:23)
path will unfold. Like for me growing up in my generation.

I'm 45 now. So my generation was very much what I saw was like a society's checklist. So it was like graduate high school, go to college, get a good job,

Joomin (38:36)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (38:39)
get a promotion, buy a nice car, buy a house. It was just

Joomin (38:42)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (38:42)
all those things, and you will be happy.

Joomin (38:45)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (38:46)
And it's not, I mean, it's like you said, you get your Broadway debut, and now you're like, now what? It was that every time I achieved whatever everyone told me I was supposed to achieve next. So I love that one.

You got that permission. But I think you had given yourself that permission and you had seen what following what you love doing brought you. Like when you started to breakdance and then you met other people and then you guys formed a crew and practiced whether it took you six months to get the move or it took you two years to get the move.

Joomin (39:21)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (39:22)
It wasn't about getting the move as much as it was about doing the thing. Or I'm putting

Joomin (39:26)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (39:27)
words in your mouth, maybe, but that's what it sounded like.

Joomin (39:29)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (39:29)
When you

say so, you already have that practice. It's just recalling

Joomin (39:32)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (39:33)
that young version of you once you get through your hurdles.

Joomin (39:35)
Yeah. I think it this

yeah, I think this is going back to when I first saw breakdancing, I felt powerful for the first time.

Matt Gilhooly (39:42)
Hm, yeah.

Joomin (39:44)
And I think what drove me is a feeling powerful from my growth, right? When I wasn't able to do something and then later on I finally made it to do s like incredible things. I'm like, that that kind of it's an addiction. Like you're

addicted to that growth.

And I think that drove me

throughout my whole life that like the lack of my power in my childhood, yeah,

actually helped me to become who I am now. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (40:13)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you also

like had felt what it felt like to feel the power. So like,

Joomin (40:21)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (40:21)
why wouldn't you want to keep feeling that if that's a good,

Joomin (40:23)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (40:24)
you know, it was a healthy power. I wouldn't say, you know, you're not on a power trip, but

Joomin (40:26)
Yeah, yes. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (40:29)
it I mean, it it's your example of getting into college. It's the whole thing, like, I can do this, I'm getting in here and this is what I'm doing. So I can keep doing the thing that is exciting to me.

Joomin (40:41)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (40:42)
Because that was the only way you could, the the only way you could with your parents being happy, right? You making

Joomin (40:48)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (40:48)
your parents happy in that way. And then your story about like English, like figuring it out. You're like, well, the only way I'm gonna find the ability to connect with others, which is important when you're living somewhere and you wanna even if you want to perform, you're like, all right, open that book, go to a speech language pathologist, and so

Joomin (41:06)
Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (41:10)
that what did that journey bring you? So I'm you clearly learned English. You taught yourself English and found your

Joomin (41:15)
Is it?

Matt Gilhooly (41:16)
resources and did you get to live that experience that that you came here

Joomin (41:20)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (41:21)
for?

Joomin (41:22)
Yes. so I moved here like twenty thirteen. Is it? No, fifteen.

Matt Gilhooly (41:26)
To Wisconsin.

Joomin (41:28)
to thirteen to Wisconsin

Matt Gilhooly (41:30)
Okay.

Joomin (41:31)
and then fifteen to New York City and started auditioning. and I think it because my odds were so stacked against me and actually that helped me to kind of like, well, whatever can happen.

I'm just gonna do what I love, right? And

Matt Gilhooly (41:48)
Yeah. And why were they stacked against you, do you think?

Joomin (41:52)
like language, I didn't I never grew up with like racism and you know, racial profile in the industry, all the things that I never even thought about it. my yeah, yeah, yeah. And

Matt Gilhooly (42:04)
That's a slap in the face sometimes, I would assume. Mm-hmm.

Joomin (42:08)
then like my social s like how can I say that? Like social status. Yeah, you have

Matt Gilhooly (42:12)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (42:13)
like

Yeah, you have a certain social yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (42:17)
Yeah. Politics of Broadway.

Joomin (42:21)
was like, well, it's okay because I'm gonna experience

Matt Gilhooly (42:23)
Well, yeah.

Joomin (42:24)
like I'm gonna experience as much as I can. I don't have to make it. That actually really made me actually make it, I think.

Matt Gilhooly (42:30)
Yeah.

Joomin (42:32)
I went to all the possible auditions. Like I remember that I was in West Side Story Audition.

And then the choreographer didn't even look it at me. And I was like, that's weird. But I later I realized, this is about yeah, Hispanic and white peoples fighting

Matt Gilhooly (42:46)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Joomin (42:51)
in upper Manhattan. I was like, okay, I get it now. It's things like that. I was just learning as as yeah, and

Matt Gilhooly (42:57)
Mm. Yeah. I but you got the experience of going, right?

Joomin (43:02)
and that actually, that mindset, I that helped me.

book my Broadway first Broadway debut. when I auditioned for the prom. yeah, it was it's a good show. I

Matt Gilhooly (43:12)
I love the prom. Yeah, I loved it.

Joomin (43:15)
I love the show. the first audition was twenty twenty eight seventeen August. Yeah. And I went in. I thought I did a really good job, but I didn't get the call back. I was like and then I'm I was kinda used to it and like, yeah, okay. And and I watched Atlanta version of

try out and I didn't see any Asian performer in it. So I was like, okay, yeah. Well, well, on to the next, right?

but they had another audition in November. It was like three months apart, right? Usually people like, you didn't get the call back, so maybe they're not looking for your tie. Yeah. But for me I was like, well I'm gonna just gonna go and I'm gonna I'm gonna experience this and because that's what I am here for.

And that's how I booked it. And I

Matt Gilhooly (44:02)
Mm.

Joomin (44:04)
got f callback, second callback, third callback, and I got the call in December that Juman, we

wanna offer you a Broadway the prom contract.

Matt Gilhooly (44:11)
That's awesome. Yeah.

Joomin (44:14)
I was like, Wait, what? I didn't think

Matt Gilhooly (44:17)
Also like

Joomin (44:17)
it could happen.

Matt Gilhooly (44:18)
yeah, and I love that like that Broadway debut is like one with some some intense dancing. Like

that had you know, like that's cool. At least

Joomin (44:25)
Yes. A lot of dancing.

Matt Gilhooly (44:27)
you weren't in like a sho I mean it would be great to be in a show, but at least you weren't in show that just had a little bit like that was there was some intensity in that, those performances. So that's really cool.

Joomin (44:35)
Yeah.

I'm so glad that that was my debut because we had such a big range of ages. Like we

Matt Gilhooly (44:45)
Yeah.

Joomin (44:45)
had best level almost like 60, mid-60s to like 21, 20 years old in the cast.

Matt Gilhooly (44:51)
Yeah. Some young, yeah.

Joomin (44:53)
And then like this set such a great building, like Beth Level, Brooks Menskis, Chris Siever, they're all like Broadway legends.

Right. Angie, Michael Potts. They're like such a they set the building such a loving building.

And I learned that. And then that we were kind of living in that like a loving building. And we were like it was such a happy experience. I mean, there are were a lot of like physical exhaustion, mental

exhaustion, because it's like a broad way they've viewed you going into like

Tony season, you

go into all this like four AM call for like good morning America filming. Like it was like nonstop marathon like towards October 'cause that was our preview to June. Like there was nine months of like nonstop. but I had such a great time.

Matt Gilhooly (45:48)
Did it and this is always did it meet what you had dreamed of or had you not dreamed of what to expect?

Joomin (45:55)
It was so interesting because I didn't have I was so busy. And I guess I was I didn't even think about it. Like I need to I need to do a good job so I don't get fired. Somehow in my head, because my language and like all the things, I was like still a little bit insecure.

Matt Gilhooly (46:12)
Right. Yeah.

Joomin (46:14)
And like, what if they fire me? You know, that was in my head. Yeah, what if? Like we always think about it, right?

Matt Gilhooly (46:18)
What if you go and hm yeah.

Joomin (46:21)
I mean it's great.

In a way, but also it balance, right? We always need the balance.

Matt Gilhooly (46:25)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joomin (46:27)
so I just wanted to do good job to not get fired. And

Matt Gilhooly (46:31)
Ha ha.

Joomin (46:32)
I didn't even like I was so busy just doing the show and like trying to maintain the quality

Matt Gilhooly (46:38)
Yeah.

Joomin (46:38)
that they need. And then like my stamina wasn't quite there. So I was really struggling to meet that stamina

Matt Gilhooly (46:45)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (46:46)
to do like eight times a week performance and my

voice wasn't so great. So I was also like trying to get better at yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (46:55)
Self conscious too.

Joomin (46:57)
And now also Broadway in New York City. So insanely talented people. You are surrounded by insanely

Matt Gilhooly (47:02)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joomin (47:05)
talented people from all around the world, not just the US, right? And you're like, my God, I how did I book this? You know what I mean? But also

Matt Gilhooly (47:11)
But you you deserved it. You you earned it. You

Joomin (47:16)
like yeah later I learned that

I book I l earned this spot alongside them. anyway, but the first moment I realized that I am on Broadway was when the first preview night there was huge snowstorm,

middle of nowhere. So all the metros and all the transportation was stuck, and we had to hold the show for 40 minutes. So we were like kind of like holding it, holding, holding it.

And the Casey Nicola, director, came out to trying to entertain the audience. And then kinda like he's like, we have thirteen Broward Davis today. Hey everyone, Broadway Davis come out in front of the curtain. That shouldn't happen because, you know, usually you just do the show. But because of the snowstorm snowstorm, we were all in front of the curtain and then

I was seeing that audience and just like I was able to take that moment in for the first time. I am on Broadway. Yeah. I think it's like things like that, like I was busy doing my thing and then all of a sudden, I'm on Broadway. Huh. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (48:29)
Yeah. Well, and it's

to your whole dream, your dream thought, you know, as a verb, right? Like it's not about any it's no longer about the debut as much as it is about like doing what you're here for, you know, like doing what as hard as it is and as much as

Joomin (48:48)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (48:48)
you were working and I'm sure exhausting, but how much joy it could possibly bring you and like you're doing

Joomin (48:55)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (48:56)
I mean, what you did at least with the prom

There are so many kids out there that would love to do that. And, you know, your story tells them like go experiencing it. Go experience

Joomin (49:09)
Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (49:10)
it. You know, you don't have to make it. If you do, cool. But enjoy the ride.

Cause

Joomin (49:15)
Right.

Matt Gilhooly (49:16)
that's what I mean, so you had prom. What what came after prom?

Joomin (49:20)
yeah, after the prom closed early than we expected.

Matt Gilhooly (49:21)
for you. Cause that closed unfortunately early. Mm-hmm.

Joomin (49:27)
and then I was also going through like now what? Yeah. And I was auditioning. I didn't get anything like for like in twenty twenty twenty nineteen August

Matt Gilhooly (49:41)
And then the pandemic.

Joomin (49:43)
to yeah, like twenty yeah, like four four months.

I was auditioning, I didn't get anything. And I was working in the restaurant. I was like, okay, now what? Should I I experienced it. Should I go back? Or like,

you know, I was asking all the questions. then in pandemic hit. But one thing I I I was also wanna mention it. The prom was nominated for the best musical. so I was able to be in a Tony performance and I realized later that

I was the first native Korean to perform at the Tony Awards. Yeah. And that was

Matt Gilhooly (50:17)
Really? That's really cool.

Joomin (50:19)
really, really cool. And I remember the Radio City, the huge, huge, huge venue full of people, celebrities, and the like sea of standing ovation. It's just like I will

Matt Gilhooly (50:33)
Yeah. With all those talented people in one room.

Joomin (50:37)
Yeah, I will never forget. I was like I performed in front of Samuel Jackson and like

I'm like, what? Like

Matt Gilhooly (50:44)
Yeah.

Joomin (50:45)
what what is life now? You know? And

Matt Gilhooly (50:47)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joomin (50:48)
then we after that w you know, usually opening number, they put all the numb best musical numbers together. They make a big opening number. And then the end of it, the curtain went down and we were like all hug each other. We're like, Congrats everyone, we made it and that was like such a great moment for me again

to like, my god, I'm on Broadway now. Again and the

Leading up to that, we were literally physically so exhausted.

And then Tony happens after Sunday show. And it c you go you your court is like seven AM and you go camera check f until like noon and then you do the show to three PM to six PM

So like you did you you woke up at like five AM and then you perform at like eight PM

Matt Gilhooly (51:35)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (51:36)
after Camera Rear Soul show and the Tony performance. So your your body's so exhausted. But then that was such a rewarding

Matt Gilhooly (51:43)
Yeah.

Joomin (51:45)
memory that's so unforgettable. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (51:48)
Yeah. And do you when

you think I don't know if you did this at the time, but when things like that happen to you then and now, do you think back on your professor and like the permission that she didn't need to give you? You probably had within you, but you needed like the little nudge, like just go. Like you

Joomin (52:09)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (52:09)
can do this and it it doesn't matter where you land. It's what you're doing as you're trying to get wherever you're going.

Joomin (52:17)
Yeah, I I think of it actually all the time. 'Cause I feel like I'm still 'cause like we're so drawn to results and goals, right?

we often like think about what if this is not happening? Then like

Matt Gilhooly (52:32)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (52:33)
all the what if like

the bad things gonna happen, so I cannot do this. And every time I think about that, I'm like, wait, I'm just gonna go back to my professor said, experience this as much as I can. And it's just such a great

Matt Gilhooly (52:48)
It's so important.

Joomin (52:49)
thing in my it's just such a great perspective to approach things.

Matt Gilhooly (52:53)
Yeah.

Joomin (52:54)
Yeah. And it really saved my life. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (52:57)
Yeah.

I mean, I think it's I mean, saved your life is is really big to to give that and I think that's it's true. Like what would your life be had you not heard that sentence at that time and made the decision

Joomin (53:11)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (53:11)
three months later? I mean, it doesn't mean that you would have had a bad life, but you wouldn't have got to experience all this cool stuff that probably feels good inside, like that you're you're doing what you enjoy doing, but but

Joomin (53:25)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (53:27)
Then you decided so you're still doing you're still auditioning and doing all that on Broadway and whatnot these days?

Joomin (53:33)
Yes,

I'm on my second Barbie show. I'm in and Juliette now. Yeah, I think see

Matt Gilhooly (53:36)
Okay. Nice. I enjoyed that one as well. I come up every

year and see as many shows as I can in the in a short amount of time for my birthday, so yeah.

Joomin (53:44)
Such a fun show, yeah.

I'm I'm I've been in the show f almost four years now. yeah,

Matt Gilhooly (53:50)
I love it.

Joomin (53:51)
I I am auditioning. I'm I'm interested into like expanding my career to T V film and I'm actually like I'm interested in to just like let it happen. I'm

Matt Gilhooly (54:04)
Yeah.

Joomin (54:05)
kinda like I'm not gonna stop my inspirations.

Matt Gilhooly (54:09)
Right.

Joomin (54:09)
I'm just gonna

see where it goes. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (54:11)
Leave the door open. Yeah.

Joomin (54:13)
And I it's really fun. And then we don't know what's gonna happen. Literally

Matt Gilhooly (54:18)
No one does.

Joomin (54:19)
right before my professor said, Hey Jimmy, you wanna go to Broadway? And then that moment, 10 years before and after, I could never imagine that

Matt Gilhooly (54:30)
Yeah.

Joomin (54:31)
I would be on Broadway, right? Ever in my life. So if I took that lesson, then I'm like, well

I don't know what's gonna happen in the next ten years. So

Matt Gilhooly (54:41)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (54:41)
if I open to this store, maybe something great will happen. Yeah. So that's why

Matt Gilhooly (54:43)
Yeah. I like it. And then you wrote a book or you wrote a journal.

Joomin (54:49)
that's why that's one of the reasons why I wrote a book.

Matt Gilhooly (54:52)
Yeah.

Joomin (54:52)
Because we never know. Then I I could I mean who knows? I could become a writer later, right? Like

Matt Gilhooly (54:58)
Yeah. Did you write it for you

or what was the reason that you decided 'cause it's not an easy thing to do. So w what was the reason you decided to do it?

Joomin (55:03)
Right. Yeah.

So actually it was for it s it was me trying to save myself.

Matt Gilhooly (55:10)
Okay.

Joomin (55:11)
In twenty twenty four I went through a divorce and that's really a hard experience. Right. Like I don't recommend anybody to go through that process.

Matt Gilhooly (55:25)
I don't

most most people don't intend to, but life happens.

Joomin (55:27)
Right.

Yeah, and then I think what really just mm broke me, I don't wanna say destroy, what broke me was the the trust I have built, I had built was just shattered, right?

And then we like we we do have in our heads that we have some checkboxes. You get married at this point and your life will be happy and you have careers,

yada yada yada. But then

When the something is just like, this is it's like the whole checkbox is now broken. And I'm like, my life is failed, kinda in a way. And

What like what's what should I do next? Right? Can I yeah, it's like so a whole lot of questions. Like you getting into this like whole life questions you want to go through. and yeah, I was like so into this the dark place, and then my friend a friend of mine invited me to Thanksgiving dinner and then she gave me five minute journals.

It's one of the great gratitude journal practice

Matt Gilhooly (56:34)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (56:34)
book. And she was like, Jimin, I think this might help you. And I was like, Thank you, thank you so much. And I started using it. Yeah. And

Matt Gilhooly (56:41)
Yeah. That's the trick. You have to use them.

Joomin (56:44)
yeah, because like they gave me and like, Jimmy, can you pro can you promise that you can use this? And I was like, Yeah. I think they were worried. Thank thank God. Thank you, my friend Liz.

I used it, I liked it until I realized it's only focusing on positives. And I was like, it felt good a little, but then I'm going back to the cycle again. Feel not great. And it's a cycle

Matt Gilhooly (57:08)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Joomin (57:10)
that's just didn't seem going away. Seemed like going away. So I was like, I need to solve this. I feel like when I'm turning around, the negatives all around me is just right behind me.

And I found this five one positivity ratio. I was reading this book called Fight Right. It's by Gottman Institute. I think every couple should read this book. I think

it's such a it's so great. It's there's so many great things are in the book. And one of that is five one positivity ratio. so this is our negative things are connected our negative emotions and it's

So strong for us. They tend to impact us more than the positive emotions. So we need five positives to cancel this negative

things, and you can actually cancel it. so when I found it, I was like, I like this because I can accept my negative things around me with balance,

and I can acknowledge it, I can actually look at it and it coexists.

with it. I really like that part of it. So I started using that five one positivity ratio. And it helped me actually. And also when you let your brain register certain tools that this is working because of this, this is, and your brain believes it and then it actually working to favor. It's working towards that way, right? Because your brain labeled it.

Matt Gilhooly (58:37)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Joomin (58:39)
Right. So it's actually worked.

And I found a little bit of like emotional space. Yeah. I was like, wow, okay, this is working. I like I mean, it's it's still there, but it's not like I'm really in this dark place. And then I found this five wise method, and it's it's using widely in psychology, and it's

founded by Toyota Car Company CEO and in order to find the root root problem and you ask a question about your problem and answer why that is problem. And you answer again the first question, why the first question is still my problem. And you get the second answer. And the third, fourth, fifth. And in this way you get one layer under of each problem. And then after

Matt Gilhooly (59:29)
Go deeper.

Joomin (59:30)
fifth, yeah, you usually get your root problem. And oftentimes it

looks very different. Yeah. So I was like, okay, let me break down my problems so I can actually able to solve it. And yes. Literally. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (59:44)
Kind like breakdancing. In a way, breaking the move down, yeah.

Joomin (59:48)
Yeah. And I really, really like it. Liked it. And still I love this method. Every every time I feel something is like unclear, I do this. Okay, let me do five wise.

because oftentimes our problems is they're kind of smushed together. And if you do five wise, it kind of lays down to each element, like it's a breakdown. And then you go into root problem and you're like, my gosh, I'm dealing with this. This is actually the problem. This is just kind of like kind of outside costume that kind of like yeah. yeah, and I was actually fascinated by it.

By using this, like I had so many breakthrough moments. I'm like, wow, I'm dealing with this. This is not the actual problem. And I was like actually doing it every day. And I'm like, wow, every day I'm realizing something new about my problems. And it kind of like it gave me a little bit of like self compassion of this,

Matt Gilhooly (1:00:47)
Mm.

Joomin (1:00:47)
like having these kind of problems. Having problems is not a problem. Like we're all human, we all have problems.

Matt Gilhooly (1:00:52)
Mm,

mm.

Joomin (1:00:54)
And then I got into reframing positive. That is like, you know, because of self negative emotions, we often focus on just emotion like jealous, you know, ang anger, frustrations. Then we didn't really think about why. And we felt that. And usually if you go into intentions, we often find a lot of p productive information there.

Matt Gilhooly (1:01:17)
Mm.

Joomin (1:01:17)
So

Linked to five whys, I was linked to five reframing positive to like first answer, what is good about this first answer? What I did great, or what can I learn from it? What's the intention that is great? And I wrote five another positives out of the five whys. And in this way I'm kind of like surrounded positives already,

Matt Gilhooly (1:01:39)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (1:01:40)
right? And then in this way, this problem I can see it more like hugging it rather than like

standoffish, right? Now you're like kind of like understanding why and then this is good about things. And now I'm like, yeah, there's something great about this. And when I when I did that, I was like, now I want to do something about it. Yeah.

So I added this daily action, like something really small. like in like habit, if you want to build habit, it's way better to have

something really small you can do every day rather than like a big changes, right? So I added a list. What's the easiest thing and the smallest thing I can do to change? So I wrote it down and I took it action and then I after I've the first time I put those together and then I wrote, I feel like I can breathe now. And then I'm excited to use this journal tomorrow.

That's the first time I put those together. And I was like, wait a minute. There's something in here that

Matt Gilhooly (1:02:47)
Yeah.

Joomin (1:02:48)
is something really great. And I was curious. So I shared it with my friends and hey guys, I kinda put together this journal form. I'm curious about how it works for you guys. And then they're like,

Shuman, I think this is great. There's something, there's something great in here. I'm so glad you're doing this. so I was starting started writing about why this

Matt Gilhooly (1:03:11)
Mm-hmm.

Joomin (1:03:12)
is working and why I put those together. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (1:03:14)
Yeah.

Joomin (1:03:16)
And then I was like, well, okay, now what? And all the like negative thoughts, you know, like I'm not a writer, who am I? Like, but then I was like, well.

Matt Gilhooly (1:03:27)
Hey. Why not?

Joomin (1:03:30)
I'm not gonna listen to this. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna put it out there. Maybe one person out there will find it useful. And that's all I want.

Matt Gilhooly (1:03:38)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joomin (1:03:40)
I don't wanna be I don't need to be a million dollars like writer.

Matt Gilhooly (1:03:45)
I mean it'd nice.

Joomin (1:03:46)
I just want it to be I just wanna share because it saved me. I th I really strongly believe this will help somebody else out there who are going through hard times. not even you don't have to go through

Hard times. It's just like it really clarifies what you're going through day by day. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (1:04:04)
I

mean, a

self-reflection is so important for people

Joomin (1:04:07)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (1:04:07)
and we oftentimes don't give ourselves the time to do it. So

Joomin (1:04:11)
Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (1:04:12)
I I love that I I mean, my favorite part about the fact that you put this book together

Joomin (1:04:17)
Uh-huh.

Matt Gilhooly (1:04:18)
is that it stems from your own experience doing it. You know,

Joomin (1:04:23)
Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (1:04:23)
like it's not like, I wanna put a book together because I want to

You know, whatever, like it's not some random thing. It's something that you found useful and now you're creating it for others, which kind of makes me think of this podcast and having these types of conversations because someone can use your journal, someone could listen to any of the episodes on this podcast and listen to your episode, see themselves in that story, and

Joomin (1:04:46)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (1:04:47)
maybe feel inclined to move differently in the world or feel less alone or whatever it may be. So kudos to you for putting your own healing journey.

into something that can help other people in so many ways, including being on

Joomin (1:04:59)
Thank you.

Matt Gilhooly (1:04:59)
the stage, because I think people find that escape and that relief and see themselves on the stage. So like super honored to have this conversation with you and kind of hear this journey and how I mean thankfully that professor told you what she did, right? Because who knows

Joomin (1:05:13)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (1:05:14)
where you would be and whose lives you would be touching. I'm sure you would be, but you know, now you get to like

Joomin (1:05:19)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (1:05:20)
follow whatever path unfolds in front of you and be good with that and not

Joomin (1:05:24)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (1:05:25)
And not worry about it. So thank you for being a part of this.

Joomin (1:05:27)
Yeah,

I'm thank you for having me. This is this is really great to share this and like really go in deep to yeah, the story and yeah, life. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (1:05:34)
Yeah. Life. It's just life, you know, it's exciting,

but also like hard. Life is hard. Yeah. And that's okay. But we find our way

Joomin (1:05:41)
Right. It's hard. It's very hard. Yeah. It's okay.

Matt Gilhooly (1:05:45)
through it.

Joomin (1:05:46)
Right. Yeah. And then we just we can just experience it and yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (1:05:49)
Yeah. And someday

you're gonna be in a revival of Billy Elliott and you'll be telling that part of the story. I mean, talk about full circle moment. That'd be that would be great.

Joomin (1:05:54)
Yes. I would love to be. Yes. Yeah. That'd be really, really great.

Matt Gilhooly (1:06:00)
If people wanna like connect with you, follow you, see what you're doing, buy your book, like what's the best way to find you, get in your space?

Joomin (1:06:08)
for books, you can find it on Amazon and you can follow me,

Matt Gilhooly (1:06:12)
Okay. We can put the link in the show notes.

Joomin (1:06:15)
yeah. You can follow me on Instagram as Jumin Huang, J O O I N H W A N G. You can find me my journey, yeah. From now on

Matt Gilhooly (1:06:24)
Yeah, cool.

Joomin (1:06:26)
a forward, moving forward and past, yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (1:06:29)
Awesome.

Yeah, you know, I always encourage people if they're listening to your story and something you said resonated with them or they feel less alone or whatever it may be that they reach out to you and tell them, tell you their story and how it made them feel because

Joomin (1:06:44)
Yeah, that'd be really great.

Matt Gilhooly (1:06:45)
I know what it feels like to tell your story for the first time. You probably do as well. And

Joomin (1:06:49)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (1:06:50)
so I think there's just such power in there. So thank you for sharing the power of your story and the power of

Joomin (1:06:55)
Thank you.

Matt Gilhooly (1:06:55)
your professor's words.

Joomin (1:06:58)
Yeah, thank you.

Matt Gilhooly (1:06:58)
to get you to where you

are. It's a it's an honor to get to know you in this way.

Joomin (1:07:02)
Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Matt Gilhooly (1:07:06)
Of course. I always an honor to hear these stories from people in and the lives that they live. So wanna say thank you for being a part of it and thank you everyone for listening. I will be back next week with a brand new episode. Thanks again, Jim.

Joomin (1:07:19)
Thank you.