Grief, Ancestors & Cuba: Finding Your Mother Again

Matt Gilhooly (00:00)

Some life shifts are loud and others just wait. Rebi lost her mother when she was 19 years old and for a long time she did what many of us do. She kept going. She built a life and she learned how to be capable and disciplined even when grief never really left. Years later, as she approached the age her mother had been when she died, something stirred. Not as a crisis, but as a question that she just couldn't ignore any longer. This conversation follows Rebi's journey back to Cuba.

where she encountered a different relationship with loss, ancestry, and memory. It was one that allowed her to stop moving past grief and start staying in conversation with it. This episode is about slowing down, listening more closely, and letting what we miss teach us something new.

Rebe Huntman (00:44)

I think for 30 years had carried around that disappointment with myself. And then as a grown woman, you know, thinking, wow, you couldn't even look at your mother. She was, she gave you life. She was the person you loved the most. And then in that, in that time you couldn't even look.

Matt Gilhooly (01:02)

You're listening to the LifeShift Podcast. I'm your host, Matt Gilhoolie. This show is built around one simple idea, that sometimes a single moment can change how we see everything. Each week, I talk with someone about the moment that shifted their life and how they learned to live differently after it. These are not stories about having it all figured out. They are stories about what it looks like to keep going once the story changes. Thank you for being here. Here's today's story.

Matt Gilhooly (01:34)

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Life Shift Podcast.

am here with Rebi. Hello, Rebi.

Rebe Huntman (01:38)

Hello Matt, how are you?

Matt Gilhooly (01:40)

I am doing pretty well. I am excited to have this conversation with you today because I never know how these conversations will unfold. And I think that is so refreshing for someone that grew up very worried about upsetting other people or not asking the right questions. And so this life shift journey for me is something that's very freeing. And I hope it inspires other people to have really open conversations with anyone.

that they're with and try to make these human connections. So I'm excited to talk to you today. So thank you for being a part of this.

Rebe Huntman (02:15)

Thank you. What a beautiful concept and idea. thank you for having me here today,

Matt Gilhooly (02:20)

So before we get started, before we jump into your story, maybe you can tell us who really is 2026. Like, how do you show up in the world? How do you identify these days? Who are you?

Rebe Huntman (02:31)

What a vast and beautiful and impossible question.

start by saying that I am a former Latin dancer and choreographer. these days I write full time. And live part of the year in Delaware, Ohio, and part of the year in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico, where I am right now, we're recording.

I recently published a book called My Mother in Havana, a memoir of magic and miracle. This really the story that you and I are going to kind of get into today.

Matt Gilhooly (03:04)

Congratulations on writing full-time these days. I think there's a lot of people out there that dream of getting there. Did it take a while for you to get to this place in which you were able to write fully every day?

Rebe Huntman (03:18)

yes, I think I've always been a really disciplined person. I learned that in dance, you know, the, idea of showing up every day for something that you love and, crafting, crafting something. and I'm very fortunate, you know, I, I spent decades, running a dance studio and a professional dance company. I taught college and high school and now I'm just writing. So it's, it's really nice.

Matt Gilhooly (03:21)

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, I

bet that's really fulfilling. Does it feel good or is it challenging at times or all the time? I would think it would be challenging all the time.

Rebe Huntman (03:52)

It's challenging all the time because there's no boss. I mean, I'm the boss and the creator. So, you know, I have to both know when to crack the whip and tell myself to get in the riding chair and when to give myself a break.

Matt Gilhooly (04:05)

Yeah, no, that's a hard thing to do sometimes, especially if you're in it. So that's amazing, and I will obviously hear how you got to this journey of writing your most recent book. And is it your first book?

Rebe Huntman (04:19)

This is my debut memoir. I've published a number of essays and poems, but this is my first book length project.

Matt Gilhooly (04:21)

nice.

Well, congratulations on that. So to get into your story, maybe you can kind of paint the picture of the before version of you and what your life was like and who you were leading up to this life shift moment that we're going to kind of center today's conversation around.

Rebe Huntman (04:40)

Yeah, thank you for that. My before moment actually spans a couple of decades as I'm kind of going to paint it for you. I had a similar experience to you, and I so appreciate what you said about grief when you started, when you opened up this discussion. When I was 19, I lost my mother to colon cancer.

Matt Gilhooly (04:52)

Sure.

Rebe Huntman (05:05)

I was not prepared. She had been, you we'd been very, very close and it was devastating. I was a sophomore in college. really, it was also in the 80s and in the US. I think we're still having trouble talking about grief. So I'm really grateful for, for your podcast this opportunity to talk really openly about it.

So as a 19 year old, I sought the wisdom of college counselors and other adults around me who were very well meaning. But the message basically was, hey, she's gone, move on, move forward, make your mother proud of you by accomplishing things.

Matt Gilhooly (05:32)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Rebe Huntman (05:45)

I was too good at that advice. I really, really mastered the art of putting her memory behind me because, and I think you referenced this, I wanted other people to feel comfortable, you know, and I could tell when I brought up my mother and I started crying, it made potential boyfriends and friends really nervous and uncomfortable.

Matt Gilhooly (06:07)

because we're

also not taught how to listen to people when they're in these moments and we want to try to fix or solve and there's no fixing or solving.

Rebe Huntman (06:17)

Yeah, absolutely. I just kept setting goals for myself and I kept moving and it kept moving. And as I mentioned earlier, started a career as a professional Latin dancer and choreographer. had a touring professional dance company that I was choreographing for and directing. And in that capacity, I went to Cuba in 2004 to collaborate with other choreographers.

And I hadn't thought about my mom, you know, I I carried her inside me, but I wasn't thinking about her when I went in particular. And I started learning the dances the dances, the original dances that give form and breath to the Latin dances that we know. And they're all based in these Afro Cuban rhythms and traditions musicians and dancers use their

their instruments and their bodies to call the gods to earth. And this was the beginning of my aha moment because up until then I had really lived in a world here in the US where if you can't explain it scientifically or mathematically, then it's not real.

Right? And in Cuba, I witnessed something very different. Initially through these dancers who introduced me to the African Cuban spiritual traditions like Santeria, in which one, the veil between the material world and the spirit world is very thin, and thus dancers and musicians can call the gods to earth to dance among us. And two, ⁓

the veil between the living and the dead is very, very thin. whereas in the US, whereas I had received the advice to just keep moving, your mother is gone. In Cuba, I was surrounded by people who in their daily practice spoke with the dead. They spoke with their ancestors. They kept their ancestors' photographs in a very prominent place in the house.

Matt Gilhooly (08:18)

Hmm.

Rebe Huntman (08:27)

And they talked to them daily and they set out food and water. And they never said, I'm going to go speak to the spirit of my mother. They said, I'm going to speak with my mother. And the idea was that you can't move on without the ancestors. They're our guides, just like the spirits that the dancers were bringing down to earth. The ancestors are our guides, along with the spirits.

They're whispering in our ear. They're showing us which way to go. They're saying, hey, Rebi, don't go left, go right. they're looking out for us. And it was such a radically different view of death that I realized how much I'd been missing, right? And just how healthy this was. But it took me nine years to go back to Cuba to really explore that and find out and really take the lid off of that.

Matt Gilhooly (09:06)

Mm.

So it's more like you dipped your toe in it and it sparked maybe curiosity. Did you have a hard time buying into that because of your time in America? feel like you made the perfect point is like a lot of things have to be defined, right? Like a lot of things have to be, it's black or white, really. It's this or that. And if we can't explain it, then it doesn't exist. Did you find it hard?

Rebe Huntman (09:25)

Yeah.

Yeah,

I think I kind of came back to the US pretty shyly. I knew that I'd seen something that was words. And I did use my words. And I, you know, I fleshed out the scene in my book where, you know, we we saw this veil lift and you could really tell the difference the moment that the dancers became overcome with the spirits. But I came home very shy about talking about that.

Matt Gilhooly (10:08)

Yeah.

Rebe Huntman (10:08)

But inside I was changed

because as a choreographer, as a dancer, we spend so much of our time before mirrors. And it's all about the perfection of the art, right? And producing something and being the best, right? Being really good and all of that. And then here to be moved really by the spirit of the thing. Like, hey, those mirrors don't matter. That's not what it's about. This, this...

this whole business of moving our bodies and in celebration is really has a deep spiritual route if we want to if we want to go there and find it. So I would say to answer your question that I came back changed, but quietly so. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (10:50)

Yeah, and not

sharing with the world and kind of also investigating like does this feel right maybe or does this or did you already know that it felt right?

Rebe Huntman (10:59)

It felt right, but I came back and again, all of those mirrors and and shows to produce and all of that kept me really busy. Again, I got back into, I call her gold star, Rebi, right? The me that sets a goal and gets there is really too busy to be feeling anything or really.

Matt Gilhooly (11:11)

Mm.

So you were

running with your perfectionism in a way. Okay. Yeah, and I can relate to that as someone that also grieved kind of quietly because I thought I had to make others feel better or I don't know what it was, but I took on perfectionism, but mine was not to like run from the noise or run from the grief. It was out of fear that if I wasn't perfect, then my dad was also gonna leave.

or my grandmother was gonna leave. And so my perfectionism stems from like, my mom died suddenly, I had no concept of it. If I'm not perfect, someone else is going to leave. And so I can relate to the perfectionism and all those pieces, but with a totally different underlying piece there because of our different experiences. I say all that because what I love about this show and having these conversations is that I know how you felt.

Rebe Huntman (11:59)

Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (12:17)

but I don't know the experience that you had. And so that connects us as humans. We can understand each other even if we don't live the same lives.

Rebe Huntman (12:25)

Yeah, and you know, I think my perfectionism was both a sense of running away from feelings, but also exactly what you said. I'd lost my mother at any moment. The ground could open up and swallow me, and so I had to always be on top of things, right? So I kept running. That first trip to Cuba happened in 2004. Nine years later, I was on the brink of turning 50.

Matt Gilhooly (12:41)

Hmm.

Rebe Huntman (12:53)

And there was something about being a woman in on the age my mother had been when she died, but also being a woman on the cusp of 50. Because I think my whole life I had thought that my mother, that all women by the time they got to a certain age, women and men, but I'm speaking about women because I'm a woman and that's my story. you know,

Matt Gilhooly (13:00)

I know that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Rebe Huntman (13:15)

I thought we would know everything, right? I thought that by the time you're 50, you are so self-possessed and confident and you know everything and you know who you are and you're just grounded and rooted. And I was on the cusp of turning 50 and I didn't feel any of those things. I still felt like a 19 year old girl who wanted her mother. And...

Matt Gilhooly (13:36)

Mmm, stuck.

Rebe Huntman (13:38)

So it set me off on a real on a real spiral. The other thing was I missed her. I missed her for the I allowed myself to miss her. I felt like I couldn't keep running. She was just, you know, right here in my head and in my heart. And I was in graduate school at the time, getting a creative writing MFA at the Ohio State University.

So was doing a lot of writing and my mother kept showing up in everything I wrote and I decided to write a project about the mother, right? Who is the mother if we've lost the biological mother, right? The mother, the flesh and blood mother that we had and in my case 30 years had passed since her death and I'd forgotten, I couldn't, I don't think I could have picked her voice out of a lineup, you know?

Matt Gilhooly (14:25)

I know it.

Rebe Huntman (14:27)

I'd lost all those beautiful rich textures of who my mother was. What I had was kind of like a picture, right? So like scenes, right? can remember her smile, like I said, I couldn't pick out her voice. I couldn't remember what it felt like for her to touch me. And I wanted those things. And I also thought...

Matt Gilhooly (14:33)

a picture. That's how I feel as well.

Mm-hmm.

Rebe Huntman (14:51)

if I don't really remember her and I'm yearning for her so much, what is that thing I'm yearning for? And how can I connect with that? And fortuitously, miraculously, somehow, I was in the library at Ohio State University and I ran across a book about Afro-Cuban spirituality, and particularly about the mother

Matt Gilhooly (14:59)

Hmm.

Rebe Huntman (15:16)

the mother gods. And in particular, among the mother gods, Oshun. She's the Afro-Cuban river deity. She's the goddess of love and wealth and fertility and power. And she's both sweet and she's strong. She can be, you know, your absolutely best ally, but she can also be really, really fierce, like the river, right? She takes all the different shapes of the river.

And I had learned her dances when I was in, nine years before when I was in Cuba, I had studied her dances and now here she showed up in a book

Matt Gilhooly (15:52)

Was

it like one of those things where you just flipped and there it is?

Rebe Huntman (15:55)

Yes, yes, just opened up a book. I had a stack of books because again, my project was The Mother. I wasn't sure what that project was going to look like, but I knew that's where my interest lay. with this question of, what is The Mother when we, know, beyond just our biological mother. And so the book opened up and there she was.

And there she was, not only in her manifestation as the African, know, deity of love and rivers and sensuality and fertility and all of that, but in her twin form as Our Lady of Charity. And Our Lady of Charity is a very chaste Madonna. She's an iteration of the Mother Mary, right? So a very different kind of mother. But, and again, I'm in the library in Ohio reading and, you know, the idea that these two mother figures,

in Cuba are synchronized and looked at by many Cubans as if they were one. And that question, that just, it lit something up in me because in my experience as a woman, I had never had felt that permission to be more than one thing, to be both the sexy fertility goddess and the chaste Madonna. And without any questioning that

Matt Gilhooly (17:14)

Right.

Rebe Huntman (17:15)

that the spectrum of what it means to be human, right, in this case, a woman, is so vast and so wide. So that really intrigued me. And I read about these pilgrimages, how every year in El Cobre, Cuba, that's where our native charities, sanctuary is, thousands and thousands of Cubans set out from all over the island.

to pay homage to her on September 8th each year. And many of them on their hands and their knees, they walk across the island, Tel Kobre. And I thought, wow. You know, in the US, I had never seen anything like that. We had Mother's Day, these small, quiet celebrations. But this idea of marching with thousands of people that were celebrating and honoring the mother felt like something I needed to do. And I needed to be a part of that.

Matt Gilhooly (18:09)

bold.

Rebe Huntman (18:10)

Huh? Yeah?

Matt Gilhooly (18:11)

That's bold. That's a that's a that's a big thing. Because I think you're right in America, we see parades for holidays, right? And then when we see a lot of people marching, it's usually in protest. It's not in love or honor as much as as this seems like it would have been. Would you say that like seeing seeing those two in the book was almost like

Rebe Huntman (18:24)

Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (18:37)

like a line in the sand for you that kind of sparked something in you to want to move forward in a different way. Because the way you described it sounds like that.

Rebe Huntman (18:43)

Yes,

it was really in an instant I knew what I needed to do. I'd been floundering for three decades. I had been floundering as a almost 50-year-old woman trying to figure out who I was, who I was in relationship to my mother. I was myself a mother, which I haven't mentioned before, but I had a son at the time that was in his early 20s.

Matt Gilhooly (18:50)

Hmm.

Rebe Huntman (19:08)

And so I was struggling also with being a mother and how to mother, how to grieve my mother, how to connect with that thing called mother. And so it really was this aha moment. And I decided right then and there that I needed to go to Cuba back. was in 2013, so nine years first trip in 2004.

And I started designing a DIY pilgrimage. I set out to spend a month in Cuba because that's how long my visa would last, so 30 days. And I started in Havana where the celebration and honoring of Oshun, the river goddess, is very, very strong. And I went and I immersed myself again in her dances and in the drumming that brings her forth.

And then accident, anyway, so that was the first half of the trip. The second half of the trip was to go to El Cobre in time for those, that pilgrimage and to meet up with the pilgrims and to be part of it and feel what that would be like. And what I didn't know was going to happen. wasn't part of the plan,

Along the way, found out more and more about the spiritual traditions like Santeria and Spiritism in Cuba. met with a Spiritist in the town of El Cobre who was said to be able to channel the

the spirits of the dead. And of course, I wanted to ask him if he summon my mother, I approached that very, very shyly with great trepidation.

Matt Gilhooly (20:37)

Yeah.

Rebe Huntman (20:42)

So that was part of the really immersing myself not only in the dances and the drumming of Oshun, but also in the other rituals and sacrifices and initiations that people undergo in Cuba in order to really...

become one with the spirits. And so I learned a lot there. was a 30 day pilgrimage that exceeded any expectation that I could have had for the trip. And there was so much to muse on and so many of these big questions, right?

Matt Gilhooly (21:10)

Yeah.

Rebe Huntman (21:17)

the questions I started out with, what is the mother? How do we connect with her? Is the veil between the living and the dead really permeable or am I crazy for thinking so, right? And so to be in a land where the answer to those questions wasn't, it's crazy, but it would be crazy not to, right? Crazy not to talk to your mother. She's right there, gave me permission to really get more comfortable with those ideas.

Matt Gilhooly (21:34)

Hmm.

Yeah, and to live out loud, maybe more so and live with your feelings out loud or all of the feelings. For me, I relate to that feeling of where you said, you know, being one or the other, you can't be both kind of idea. Like for me, it was like, I'm not allowed to cry. I'm not allowed to be sad. I had my period of being sad, right? Like she died. OK, you get a month to be sad and then you carry on, right?

And so that's what I assumed that I wasn't allowed. now, like in my 40s, I'm like, if I have a bad day, if I want to cry, like bring it on because I am also a full human and I can, you know, lean into these pieces of me. I didn't have a spiritual element like you did, but I found a space in which all of it was okay for me to think and breathe and do the things that I felt like doing or feeling.

Rebe Huntman (22:35)

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (22:40)

and all that was okay, and so I can, you know, like, like a relation to what you're saying, but yours is far deeper in a spiritual side. Were you spiritual before, like, this 20, 2004 trip?

like growing up and stuff.

Rebe Huntman (23:00)

You know, I've and I talk about this in the book, I had grown up with various religious, spiritual traditions. My parents, like to say that they brought me up in the church of coffee hour, because that seemed like that was the most important part of church. You went to Sunday school, then afterwards you went to the basement. My parents would talk with everybody. so that wasn't a very deeply spiritual experience. So I think that as an adult, I...

Matt Gilhooly (23:14)

Yeah.

Right.

Rebe Huntman (23:27)

sought out various to connect with that ineffable whatever it is. And I think I've always been, as a child, I was comfortable in that world of really feeling like everything is connected. And you set out in the morning, I grew up in a time where parents pushed us out of the house in the morning, we came back at dinner time. And in the meantime, we just explored

Matt Gilhooly (23:29)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Rebe Huntman (23:54)

In my case, it was exploring nature, exploring the creeks and the prairies around where I grew up. And it was filled with magic, you know? And I didn't feel separate from everything around me. what, know, these, again, some of the spiritual traditions in Cuba, like Santeria and Spiritism,

Matt Gilhooly (24:02)

Yeah.

and then

Rebe Huntman (24:14)

You know, they're animistic, you know, practices where the world is alive and thrumming with spirit, the dead are around us, our mothers are with us, and that none of that is make believe or silly, right? It just is.

Matt Gilhooly (24:16)

Yeah.

Yeah. But did you lose that? Like after your mom died, did you lose that connection to wonder and magic and the pieces?

Rebe Huntman (24:35)

I lost it way before I lost my mother. think, yeah, I think as soon as I went to school and, you know, started learning rules about, you know, what's real and what isn't, yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (24:37)

Okay.

The rules.

Yeah. Yeah. And

I ask that because I wonder if if some of either one of your trips or both also felt like coming home to yourself because you were exposing yourself to the childlike feelings that you had. Any of that feeling come to you like feeling like, this feels like me again.

Rebe Huntman (25:07)

Yes, yes. And it's really interesting. know, pilgrimage is, you know, based on this idea that you have to leave the familiar in order to connect with yourself, right? You need to go on this pilgrimage in order to find and reconnect with yourself. And my story and the story that I relate in the book about these 30 days in Cuba was absolutely that. It was following a path.

that didn't seem at all, defied logic. If we go back to that whole logical versus magical or mystical, right? It defies logic that I, ⁓ a woman who grew up in St. Louis, Missouri and lived in Chicago and then Ohio,

who lost her mother in St. Louis would find her again in Cuba doesn't make any linear logical sense. And yet it is, I believe, absolutely what needed to happen for me to be able to find her again.

Matt Gilhooly (26:07)

Yeah. From the period or from when your mother died to now, what piece of that journey do you feel was most pivotal for you? Like, what do you think changed you the most in that journey? Because I know it's a trickle and things grow and evolve, but do feel like there was one major turning point?

Rebe Huntman (26:27)

Yeah, I do. 30 days in Cuba were so filled. Every day was filled with discovery. And, you know, I was, know, working with Santiria priests, I was joining up with the pilgrimages, I was in this this, you know, workroom of this spiritist who channels the dead, I was having all these incredible experiences that felt

Matt Gilhooly (26:36)

Mm.

Rebe Huntman (26:50)

a little bit outside me, like I was learning, I was an apprentice, I was taking it in. I think through the whole time I kept thinking, you know, as an American having these experiences, what if these belong, you know, to me and which ones, you know, am I an observer here or am I participant? What's my role here? so there was some discomfort. I'm not gonna lie. I went to, you know, a country and...

Matt Gilhooly (27:12)

Yeah.

Rebe Huntman (27:15)

I really didn't know anybody and I sat out on this pilgrimage and it wasn't comfortable. It was thrilling and it was healing, but it wasn't comfortable. I think the moment when I felt the weight of all that and of all that change and everything that I had encountered was on the airplane coming home from Cuba.

Matt Gilhooly (27:37)

Hmm.

Rebe Huntman (27:38)

And I realized that I was going to have to go back home to Ohio where people didn't speak with the dead as a rule. Right. I'm not saying that nobody does, but as a rule, it's not, you know, an everyday kind of thing. Right. people are, you know, keeping alters to the, you know, to the deceased, to the spirits, none of these things. And I knew I was going back into a world where no one was going to speak the language that I had learned to speak.

Matt Gilhooly (27:47)

Yeah.

not mainstream.

Rebe Huntman (28:07)

And I had to make a decision. One of the things was I had just, I was about a year into a relationship with a man who was very linear, very analytical, wonderful, man, but not the kind of guy that, you know, would embrace these kinds of things and this new version of me. And so,

Matt Gilhooly (28:25)

This new version of you, yeah.

Rebe Huntman (28:29)

I had gone to Cuba praying that I would come back changed. And I was coming back changed. And I thought, wow, what if, again, it's that whole, well, people like me, right? Well, how will this upset the cart of my relationships at home? And particularly with my son and particularly with this man that I had really fallen in love with but wasn't sure how all of this was going to float. So I really had to come to terms with that. And so one of the things was I decided on that plane.

Matt Gilhooly (28:39)

Yeah.

Rebe Huntman (28:58)

I am never backing off from these things that I learned in Cuba. I have learned that my mother is there, that I can speak with her. I believe it's true. And I'm not going to go back and apologize for that or shrink from that. I'm going to bring this bigger version of myself home. And when I did get home, I told Rick, my partner, I said, look, some things happened to me, some really profound things. And I don't expect you

to on board with them all, but I'm gonna ask you not to express any of your doubts out loud, right? Like you can have, I'm not asking you to buy into everything, just know that this is really precious and really sacred to me. And so that was one of the things was like kind of putting on my big girl pants and being like, I'm gonna own this.

Matt Gilhooly (29:39)

Right.

Rebe Huntman (29:48)

bigger, more magical version of myself. And bringing back these things that I've learned and these rituals, and I'm going to practice them in Ohio. And the other thing that was really magical that happened on the plane was...

When my mother died, was at college. we're going back in time. I'm in the plane in 2013, I'm going back 30 years, you before my mother died, I drove from Chicago where I was in college to St. Louis where she was dying in a hospital bed. And I made it literally at the 11th hour. You know, she died after I walked out of the room a couple hours later. And I couldn't look at her.

Matt Gilhooly (30:21)

Mm. Yeah.

Rebe Huntman (30:29)

I was so, I was so uncomfortable with her dying. I was uncomfortable that she didn't look like herself. I was comfortable that she was kind of out of it and was talking in kind of these loopy ways. She had lost so much weight and I couldn't look at her. And I think, and thank you for this question because it's really, I think is an important, really important piece is,

I think for 30 years had carried around that disappointment with myself. And then as a grown woman, you know, thinking, wow, you couldn't even look at your mother. She was, she gave you life. She was the person you loved the most. And then in that, in that time you couldn't even look. And.

So I re-imagined that in my head on the plane. I relived that scene. It wasn't just an intellectual thing. I put myself back in that hospital bed. And instead of not looking, I looked and I looked through the eyes. And I said, are you scared?

Matt Gilhooly (31:28)

Hmm.

Rebe Huntman (31:35)

because I had never asked her that, none of the family had. We all just pretended, you know, she had been dying for a couple of years, right? She was sick, she was battling cancer, surgery, chemo, all of that. None of us ever asked her, are you scared? None of us said, hey, we're scared. We don't want to lose you, right? None of that honesty, that kind of honest conversation. And so something about reliving that on the plane and...

Matt Gilhooly (31:41)

Yeah, right.

Rebe Huntman (32:01)

sitting on that hospital bed and looking at my mother in the eyes and saying, are you scared, mom? I am. And holding her hand. And I just started bawling on the plane. And you know, people around me eating their snacks and you know, whatever. I just, was such a beautiful. ⁓ Yeah, that really.

Matt Gilhooly (32:19)

A release? A release. Something that has

been inside for so long. I I think that's so beautiful. I mean, not that you had 30 years of...

guilt, shame, I don't want to put these on you but that feeling of like you didn't ask her those questions you didn't look at her and and now did it feel like you could release that for yourself?

Rebe Huntman (32:47)

Yeah, and it felt like, you know, I think it opened up to me that the lessons that I learned in Cuba were many and the rituals and the, you know, there was all kinds of, you know, things that are involved in their rituals, that keep us close with the dead or close with the spirits and it's, you know, very developed practices. But to me, the thing that I brought back that was the most helpful of all was just

permission to talk to my mother and to talk honestly with her, right? And to speak with her as if she's right here. sometimes it's as simple as I pass her photograph on my ancestral altar and it's, hey mom, how you doing today? Sometimes it's, mom, I'm having a really bad, I'm having a really hard time with something. Can we talk? And so it's this dialogue and it's this opening of conversation.

Matt Gilhooly (33:14)

Hmm.

Rebe Huntman (33:38)

that I think is the most healing, because I no longer feel like I lost my mom. I feel like she is, I experience her in my daily life.

Matt Gilhooly (33:46)

Yeah. How, and you were mentioning this relationship that you had, how did it affect your relationships in general? You coming back this, I don't want to say more evolved, but maybe more open, more spiritually open version of yourself that was unapologetic about, you know, not fitting into the rules that someone else had given you before. How did it affect the people around you?

Rebe Huntman (34:10)

⁓ that's a beautiful question, Matt. Thank you for that. Well, spoiler alert, that beautiful man that I've been dating for a year at the time of this experience in Cuba that I write about in the book is now my husband. And

My opening up, my owning my own beliefs and my own openness allowed him to open up, you know, slowly, right? He was at a different place, starting place than I was. And he's changed because of that. And he's grateful because of that. And he's been an amazing partner. of the things that happened in Cuba was when I visited the Spiritist, he said, when you get back to Ohio,

He said, do you have a pantalon, which means pants? And I was like, yeah, I've got pants. And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, pantalon, like you're a partner, right? And I said, yes, I do. And he said, when you get home, I want the two of you to go to a river. And I want you to take coconut and honey. And I want you to invoke the name of Osun, the river goddess, and ask for her blessing on your relationship. And I was like, OK, yeah, yeah, I could do that. And then I got back to Ohio and I thought, how?

How do I bring this up? Hey, honey, by the way, do you want to go to a river with some coconut and some honey? went, you know, he went it was this really beautiful, I think, baptism for both of us. He was uncomfortable, but he was there and present and willing and he opened up. So I think with all my relationships, I think that's like that anytime, right? When we shy away from who we really are and make ourselves small, it's really...

Matt Gilhooly (35:26)

you

Mm.

Yeah.

Rebe Huntman (35:53)

hard to inspire other people from that place. But when you step into your own beliefs, and I never expect anybody to believe as I do or accept it face value. I write in my book, I very specifically wrote my book so that anyone

Matt Gilhooly (36:03)

Right.

Rebe Huntman (36:12)

who was maybe a little skeptical could write on my shoulders and experience everything as I had rather than me just saying, hey, here are some things, right? So in reading the book, my hope is that people go on that same pilgrimage with me, which is filled with doubt and filled with questions and filled with, is this real? Am I currently believing this, right?

Matt Gilhooly (36:15)

Hmm.

Right. Being a human.

Yeah. Well, what was interesting about when you said that it enhanced your relationship and allowed him to open up earlier in the conversation, you had mentioned your dance life and all the things that you were doing were so focused on the mirror and being perfect. But now, like the whole time you were talking about your husband, I was thinking of you being a mirror so that

Rebe Huntman (36:48)

Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (36:56)

others can see versions of themselves through this new version of you because you are so open. Sometimes I have weird thoughts like that, but it really, made me think that to your point of when we are our most authentic selves or we're showing up in the world in the way that we feel fully ourselves, other people start to see themselves in us and reflected back. You kind of have that mirror to look at and absorb.

differently. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's what was swimming through my head.

Rebe Huntman (37:30)

Yeah, no, it really does. And I think about that a lot we're living in some turbulent times. And I think a lot of people are struggling with what do we do? What do we do in a turbulent world? How do we show up in a turbulent world? think of the...

Matt Gilhooly (37:36)

Mm-hmm.

Rebe Huntman (37:50)

you know, the Buddhists that are doing their walk for peace and how they're just modeling, they're just mirroring. This is what peace looks like. This is what compassion looks like. And I do not, I am not a Buddhist monk. I don't have over any millions of followers following me as I cross them. But I think each of us has that impact, right? In a small way to be a mirror. I think it's really important right now that we put out, you know, love and

Matt Gilhooly (37:52)

Mm-hmm.

Rebe Huntman (38:17)

belief and compassion and a belief that the world is more than just what maybe we, in my opinion, one thing that I like to put out is that we are connected to one another. We're connected to one another, we're connected to our ancestors, we're connected through that ancestry to each other. There's a long and deep history of connection in our lives that I think is really important to remember right now.

Matt Gilhooly (38:43)

Yeah, and if we stick with the mirror idea, part of me thinks if we're not fully ourselves, we're still a mirror, but we're not reflecting what we should be reflecting. So that when we are, it's far more impactful, but when we're not, other people buy into that and they become that not great version, like that not full version that we are. I don't know where my brain goes, but sometimes it does those things. And I think it's beautiful that

Rebe Huntman (38:53)

Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (39:11)

by you changing and fully, not changing, but you fully embracing all of you and what you believe and be interested in things that maybe you were told you shouldn't believe early on and now you feel that way, I could imagine the people around you can absorb that energy. Whether they want to believe certain things, that's on them, that's not on you, but they can see how much maybe joy it brings you or...

that it seems to fill your cup in different ways versus the 15 year ago version of you. you see that in others? Like, do you see their recognition of that?

Rebe Huntman (39:46)

Yeah.

It's hard to know. mean, the person, yeah, I don't want to be conceited. don't think that I, but I do believe that we all influence each other. And obviously we have greater spheres of influence, you know, obviously with my husband, with my family, with my child, but also with the people around me. I think people are really thirsty. They're hungry for authenticity. They're hungry.

Matt Gilhooly (39:54)

not to be conceited.

Yeah.

But they're also scared of it.

I mean, you were scared of it, you know, after your mom died, you were scared of a lot of the pieces. I was scared for years. I'll tell you, losing my mom gave me one of the greatest gifts, if we can find that. And what that was is my dad's mom became like a mother figure to me. We became like best friends, the closest relationship. And when she was diagnosed with cancer, I was able to approach her dying

in a way that was a gift for both of us. Not that she died, but, I mean, she did die, but I'm saying that wasn't the gift. But on this journey, we were able to have the conversations. I was able to sit by her bedside for the last 96 hours of her life. I was there for the last breath. All the things that I know full well I would not have been prepared to do had I not lost my mom in that way and struggled for 20 years.

But it really gave me a gift, that struggle gave me the awareness that gave me one of the most beautiful, devastatingly beautiful experiences of my life to be there with my grandmother for wherever she goes next. And whatever she believes and she felt in her heart where she was going next, it was perfect for me because I knew that she felt cared for and loved and the right people were around her.

It's weird to say, but sometimes these journeys that we go on bring us to these places only because of that journey we were on. Do you feel that way about your own struggles after your mom died?

Rebe Huntman (41:59)

I do. I want to, you've said something that really, really moved me about, you know, you didn't say it quite this way, but the idea of being, it sounded like what you were saying is you were comfortable sitting with death, the second on the second round, you were, you weren't afraid of it, you were like, this is part of life, this happens. How do I approach this lovingly and truthfully and authentically and face it? And

I think that's a tremendous gift. I came back from Cuba with that comfort, with sitting with, because in Cuba, that's really at the heart of everything is that we are a chain of ancestors. live and we die. And that's just part of life, right? And it's natural. And I live part of the year in Mexico now where Day of the Dead celebrations are really, really big and really important.

You know, a lot of other cultures have this comfort with death that is a real gift. And I think when we can bring that to our own to our own culture and be that person that can sit in those uncomfortable situations, it is a real gift. really glad you had that time with your.

Matt Gilhooly (43:10)

Me

too. Yeah, the best thing I ever did was when I knew it was close, I said, we need to have the conversation because I know too many people in my life that have said, ⁓ I wish I would have said this or I wish I would have, you know, they say all the things at the, at the wake or the funeral. And you're just like, so I was like, we need to say everything right now, everything that these 35 years together meant to us. And we did. And it was horrible. It was like, I mean, it was beautiful, but it was like,

so devastating and I knew that night in my heart I was like if she dies tonight there's nothing left unsaid and what a gift that is because of the time that we got to spend together and I just I think if I had grieved my mom properly at eight or nine and not struggled so much to finally find how to kind of close the door and grieve for me I don't think I would have been able to do that with my grandmother.

Rebe Huntman (44:07)

Mm.

Matt Gilhooly (44:08)

I also wouldn't have had the relationship that I had with my grandmother. So it's like this weird thing where you can be grateful for something that was kind of caused by something so horrific. And in your case, maybe this journey that you're on now is because of that big loss and the way you pushed it down and then sought out things. to think it all came from just being to go to Cuba just for meeting up with other, not to minimize it, but meeting up with other choreographers and

and dance and this brought you to this space of like could you even imagine when you were getting on the plane to go there the first time?

Rebe Huntman (44:46)

No, I was going with that whole, well, I mean, I had a mission, but I had a mission of bringing somebody back to my dance company. The mission wasn't a personal one. It was again, for the outside. was, I'm gonna go and work with these choreographers and bring new knowledge and new ways of connecting with dance back to my company. wasn't about me. But interestingly enough,

And this is in my book. The first I described, the very first time I ever knew about Latin dance was because when my mother was dying of cancer.

She and my dad had always liked to dance, but my dad was kind of a, he freestyled. He was a really good dancer. He was amazing, but he never wanted to learn steps or he never knew how to lead a woman into being able to follow him. He was just doing his own thing, which kind of left my mom out there to, you know, her own thing. So she had always wanted to take real dance lessons. And I think because she was sick, my dad finally said yes. And so.

They started taking dance lessons at, all places, as far from Cuba as you could be, a Fred Astaire dance studio in St. Louis, Missouri. And they invited me to come watch them at what the studio was calling a showcase. And I went and I saw the professional dancers there dance the Latin rhythms. And it was like, it was another one, it was moments. It was like, this is what I need to do.

And I think back on that time as my mom was dying of cancer, she introduced me to the very dance form that was going to lead me back to her.

Matt Gilhooly (46:23)

Yeah.

It's so beautiful. Like you couldn't write that story. You know, like it had to happen in that way. And it's, think if we, are able to sit with our own experiences and reflect on them and let them lead us into these new journeys, like I couldn't, when I was struggling through grief as a 15 to 20 year old, I could never imagine talking to other people about it and how hard it was. And

Rebe Huntman (46:28)

Ha ha!

Matt Gilhooly (46:51)

how broken I was and all the pieces that come along with it. But now I feel like it's what I need to do. Like it brought me here. And so I just, I love how your story unfolded as hard as it was, right? Cause I mean, look where you are now. Look what you're doing now. You put this book out into the world. People can read it and go along that journey with you and probably feel changed or be inspired to do their own journey similar to yours. So I mean,

Does it feel really fulfilling in a way for you to come to this point in your life?

Rebe Huntman (47:25)

Yeah, you know, the book was, My Mother in Havana, wrote, I spent 10 years writing that book. The story that I'm relating, Those 30 Days in Cuba took place in 2013, and the book was published in 2025. So 12 years after that, but I spent a good 10 years working on the book. one, the questions the book is asking.

What is the mother? How do we connect with that energy? Where do we find it? What is woman? What is human, right? Do we have this spectrum?

that we can inhabit or do we have to just be, you know, mother, teacher, daughter, right? Or are we all of it, right? Like, what is it mean to be human? These were huge questions. And so I returned to Cuba again and again over those 10 years. I kept going back. I kept delving further into these questions

as I found them in Cuba, right, through, Santiria, through these pilgrimages, through Our Lady of Charity, through Osun. I would sit in Our Lady of Charity's sanctuary and just look up at her. And again, she's the very chaste Madonna of Mother Mary. And, but she carries a lot of symbols that syncretize with the, with the river goddess. And I would just talk to her, I just look at her for hour after hour, trying to figure out the geometry.

of how these two mother figures could be one. So the book worked on me, right? Like I worked on the book and the book worked on me. And then I felt very proud to put it out into the world because I think that I am not the only woman in the world or person in the world asking some of those big questions. And

Matt Gilhooly (48:50)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Rebe Huntman (49:04)

So yeah, my hope is that it's healing for others as well. People who've lost their, their any beloved or, you know, people who are searching for a larger version of themselves, like asking questions, what are we made of? I, I'm, my hope is that everything that I discovered and again, carrying my reader around on my shoulders, that they're experiencing those questions alongside me and asking them and getting their own answers.

Matt Gilhooly (49:28)

Yeah, no, think there's so much power in storytelling. I think, and you never know what part of your story is going to trigger something in someone else in a beautiful way. I've done that on this podcast where I'm like, that episode is gonna hit people in this way. And then I'll hear from listeners and they'll tell me a very

minor part of the story is what really triggered them and made them feel a certain way in a good way or made them feel seen or validated. And you're like, okay, I'm not, this is not my thing to tell. Like we're going to find the pieces of other stories that make sense to us. So I think that's beautiful. And your story will do the same, you know, and maybe the most pivotal part to you is just a blip for someone else. And they find a different part in your story that was the most pivotal to them.

Rebe Huntman (50:06)

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt Gilhooly (50:21)

What would you say to the Reby that was walking out of the hospital room that day with what you know now?

Rebe Huntman (50:32)

Go back and sit and do not be afraid. This is life, right? Life is as beautiful, as terrible as it is beautiful, right? And you have to sit with both. You can't love your mother and not, you know.

You need to look, you need to sit with the messy. And I think that's one of the things that Cuba really gets right that the US struggles with is this idea of being okay with the messy. And so just to be like, yeah, I'm going to feel really uncomfortable. This is gonna be really hard, but I'm going to go sit there because I'm about to lose her, right? This is it. It's not going to have another ending. to watch

Matt Gilhooly (50:54)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Rebe Huntman (51:18)

you know, head on, when I'm in Cuba, one of the things that I'm experiencing is I'm learning about Santerias. I'm, I was given a front row seat to a lot of rituals in which animals were sacrificed. And it was very hard to watch. And yet very important because it's very sacred, right? The sacrifice itself is a very sacred moment in those practices. And so

to not watch is to miss that, right? To miss that whole mystery. And so it really taught me the importance of looking and being present with things as they are.

Matt Gilhooly (51:57)

Yeah.

It's important. The messy is a guest once said, your mess is your message. And I thought that was really interesting and profound because for me it is. My messy, messy journey is now my message. And that is to just listen to other people's stories and to hear them and see them and not have to fix them or not try to solve anything for them, but just to be with.

other people in this way and it's so important to me and totally relate to that messy. I call my grandmother's passing devastatingly beautiful because it was both. It was really, really hard and my whole world shattered at that moment but also how beautiful is it that I was able to be there for that last breath when I know she was in the hospital for my first. I feel like it's just, it's something we can do as humans but we do have to just be

I hate to say brave, but we have to be willing to be in that mess and be okay with that. If people are resonating with your story, they want to check out your book, they want to message you and tell you a little bit about their story because they feel really compelled to do so, what's the best way to get in your orbit?

Rebe Huntman (53:14)

Probably the best way is through my website, rebyhuntman.com. I'm also on Instagram at Reby Huntman. But yes, I'd love to hear from listeners. And on my website, you can get information about the book, My Mother in Havana, A Memoir of Magic and Miracle, and it's available wherever books are sold. But yes, I would love to hear from your listeners.

Matt Gilhooly (53:17)

Okay.

Well, I encourage everyone to do that. Even if a certain, you know, any part of Reby's story resonated with you, like reach out to her, bug her. It's fine. I told you to do it. It's fine. But I think there's so much power when someone feels brave enough to tell their story to someone else for the first time. I think there's something beautiful in that. It gives you a lot of power, I think, to kind of hold on to your own narrative and share it out loud with other people. So I really encourage anyone to reach out.

We'll put the link to your website and your book in the show notes. So if anyone's interested in that, definitely check that out. Do you have a newsletter or anything like that that they can sign up for? Okay. Yeah. So sign up, get into Reby's orbit. I don't know why I say orbit every time, but that's what I do. And I really encourage you to do so. And I also want to thank you for sharing your story in this way with me, a stranger on the other side of the country. Well, you're in Mexico now, but on the other side of America.

Rebe Huntman (54:14)

Yes, the website.

you

Well, I don't feel like a stranger. feel like our paths have really intersected. I've really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much for having me.

Matt Gilhooly (54:37)

I

Wow, I really appreciated every part, not every part, every conversation that I get to have on this, this podcast, weirdly heals me in some way that I didn't know needed to be healed. It's like this little part that, okay, that one's good now. So thank you for being part of my healing journey.

Rebe Huntman (55:01)

Thank you for being part of mine.

Matt Gilhooly (55:02)

Well, there you go. And I will say thank you to everyone for listening. I will be back next week with a brand new episode. And that's it. I'll see you later.

Matt Gilhooly (55:11)

Thank you for listening to the Life Shift Podcast. If you wanna learn more, go to www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com.

There you can check out all the different episodes. You can check out the blog, some of the reviews for the podcast and the Life Shift journal. Links are there so you can purchase your own copy, whether in digital or print format. Thanks again.