From Burnout To Spiritual Awakening: A Journey Of Self-discovery And Corporate Success | Elizabeth Rosenberg

"I learned through therapy that I would also give myself migraines not only to give myself a time out, but to punish myself for not being successful at what I had set out to do. Which is just like mind blowing to me because you're like, oh my God, like you did this to yourself."

My guest this week, Elizabeth Rosenberg, had an amazing career in the corporate communications and PR industry. But as you'll hear pretty early in the episode. Perhaps she loved her job almost too much. Her journey towards personal growth and transformation began after she experienced severe corporate burnout. In this moment, she found herself in the emergency room with a migraine, one in which she lost all of her motor skills. As you'll hear us discuss, this was a wake-up call for Elizabeth and the beginning of a journey towards healing. During our conversation, Elizabeth shares her experience with burnout and how it affected her life. She also opens up about her lifelong struggle and how they've impacted her life. You'll learn how she discovered her innate abilities and how she has embraced them to build a brand new version of her life after this life shift moment. Elizabeth's insights on the importance of self validation and being true to oneself are truly inspiring. We explore how she's been able to overcome the pressures of society's expectations and find her own path towards happiness and fulfillment. Before we start this episode, I again wanna thank my Patreon supporters. Thank you once again to Brian and Sari for sponsoring one episode a month. It's so helpful to cover the production costs. And an additional thank you to Dream Vacations for also sponsoring an episode of the show each month. Dream Vacations is a travel agency that's owned by a few friends of mine. I've mentioned this before, but I regularly see the beautiful and adventurous trips that they go on, all part of their job. They're able to find some pretty incredible deals for their clients. So if you're itching for some travel, please reach out to Trapper and Shane at the link in the show notes. or follow them at YourVacationHeroes on Instagram and Facebook. Without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to my friend Elizabeth Rosenberg. I'm Maciel Houli, and this is The Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever. Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Life Shift Podcast. I am here with Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth. Hi. So, as true to form, for me, I don't know much about you, which I love because I've told other people this about the Life Shift Podcast as I feel that I want to have the conversations with people that I want to be overhearing at, like, a coffee shop, just like real human connection stories. So I appreciate you. jumping in without having any structure here. I love it. I actually think everybody should have conversations this way. Yeah. And, you know, and we were talking before we recorded that the human story, there's there's a lot of power in one telling our story, right. And to share that and to tell it from like one end to the other end. But for the listener, there's usually a piece of everyone's story that we can resonate with or. feel less alone or connected to. And you said you've listened to a couple episodes and you've kind of had little moments here and there. Is that true? That's totally true. I mean, I think the people that are on your podcast are so brave in telling their story, but I also don't think they have even understood the impact that they're making by other people hearing it. So it's one of the things that I just, especially after the pandemic and the last few years, I think is so important that we are all sharing relatable stories that are human, so we don't feel so alone. I think during the pandemic, something switched a little bit, and maybe this is just who I'm surrounding myself with, but I feel that the people around me became a little less performative during the pandemic. I don't know if you've experienced the same thing with the people in your orbit. I talk about it a lot, and we'll talk about this, kind of as we're talking about my story and my journey. But I think as we are all going through our own personal development, you start to attract different people in your life and you're attracting those who also have that energy of personal development. Those are who ascending to a different place that tends to be less performative. That tends to less be, I think, anxiety written. And we want those people in our lives. And then you realize the other people that are kind of hanging back are not necessarily the people that are allowing you to be your authentic self and your true self. So we are at this time where we are inviting in new people in our lives and saying hello to new friends who are like-minded and or are on a similar journey that we're on. And then also saying like see ya to the people who aren't because that just doesn't feel authentic to us anymore. And I think as an adult it's really hard to say goodbye to friends. And that's actually when you should be really surrounding yourself by people who are learning, evolving, growing, being their authentic selves, because they're just going to make you a better person. But it is hard as an adult to break those bonds and to not have those people. Yeah. And I think for me, as I kind of get into this version of me, weirdly, like 10 years ago, I had what I determined as like the most adult friendship breakup that I've ever had, in which this friendship was just really like, it was like race car down the road about to hit the wall kind of thing. And she and I got on a phone call. And we actually had a conversation about ending the friendship and how it wasn't serving us. And it was the weirdest. It was like the weirdest experience because usually, I mean, I think a lot of us just tend to take the easy route by just disappearing or ghosting in some capacity. And it was so weird to me to have this thing where it's like, okay, I wish you luck, click, and not in a mad or anything like that. It was just a very weird friendship breakup. So that was interesting that you mentioned that. And I thought back to that moment, I haven't talked to this person since. And I'm sure she's doing great in whatever journey that she's on. It is very complicated to have those conversations. And I think the thing that I've loved so much about your podcast too, is that everyone is in therapy and or finding different modalities of healing that works for them. And in many of those forms, you are learning how to communicate. And in so many ways, if we were just more honest with each other about not only what we have to give, but what we want in return, relationships would I think be easier to have. But as people, we don't like confrontation. We don't like any of that stuff. It's not fun. I think there's a huge element of self-awareness that comes in that as well. And sometimes that's very scary, to be truly honest with ourselves, right? And to dissect those moments. Like you said, some people are in therapy. Some people are finding ways of healing or dissecting their lives in a way that makes sense. And what can we learn from this versus like blaming or... shaming or any of those components to it. So, yeah, I'm excited to talk about your moment, which I know or I feel has an element of trauma in it and all the things that you've learned since that moment. So before we get to that particular moment, maybe you can tell us a little bit about yourself and then paint the picture of what life was like leading up to this piece. On the trauma front, I want to start there because I really believe that... everyone's rock bottom is different. And I thought about it a lot, again, as I've been listening to more episodes of your podcast, and really how I see it is we're all in a series of mountains and you can climb a mountain and then you get to a valley, and then you're climbing another mountain and then you get to a valley. So oftentimes what you think is your rock bottom may not be, or what you perceive to be the actual worst thing that happens to you, something else could happen to you, but you've learned how to deal with that previous trauma. So it's not as bad. And I say that because I've had ebbs and flows and you know, mountains and valleys in my own life as everybody has. But what my rock bottom looks like for me, I think some people would think like is not that traumatic. And again, everyone's trauma looks different. It's like everybody has childhood trauma. It could be as bad as abuse or a loss or you know, something that feels very textbooks trauma to something as bad as like a pediatrician appointment or not getting an A on your report card. And that could be trauma that stays with you forever. So I actually think there almost needs to be like a rebrand and how we talk about trauma because it's not a one size fits all thing. That makes me think of something, a former guest, John Kelly. I don't know if you were able to hear his episode, but. He had major losses as a teenager and then into his early 20s. And something he said was, when he was listening to my story, and he was like, oh gosh, I can't believe all the things. It's so bad. It's like it's the worst thing I've ever heard. And then I would listen to his story, and I was like, that's so much worse. And he was like, we need to take a step back and realize that the worst moment for someone is their worst moment. That is the part in their life. And they're facing, like you said, You know, that trauma level is up here for them. That's the worst moment for them. And who are we to judge what that moment is? So I think that's important. And maybe a rebrand of trauma is needed. And I think now that we're talking more about it, though, it very well could be on the horizon. I know. What an amazing generation we are, that we are actually allowed to and encouraged to talk about this trauma instead of our parents who didn't talk about anything. Imagine their parents. Exactly, right? So my story is... My story. I was born and raised in Los Angeles. I'm a twin. I grew up in kind of the entertainment industry. I had a really amazing childhood. I had great parents, a twin sister, a little sister, went to college. And I graduated at the time where there were no jobs to be had. We were in the middle of like our first, it was like the dot-com had boomed and busted and it was just kind of a nightmare out there. I had always been a very entrepreneurial, very work focused and I started my career and I am very, very driven. 20 years later or 15 years later, if you fast forward, I ended up having severe corporate burnout at a job that I loved very, very much and landed myself in the emergency room with a migraine where I lost all my motor spills. And I also, migraines were not new to me. I've had migraines since I was four. That's a whole other trauma situation that we can talk about at a different time of how your body innately reacts to things before your mind does or vice versa, depending on the person you are. But this medical situation was quite the wake up call for me. And again, I think that people can only have this belief, again, how we talk about branding and rebranding things, that burnout only happens when you hate your job. I loved my job. I was doing really, really cool stuff. I was working for a huge brand. I was traveling the world. I was just doing too much and I had too much responsibility. I was working for a very large brand. We had launched a ad campaign, a music platform and a bunch of phones into the world. And I just, I loved it so much. I was, I was, I had gone to like South Africa and Europe and I was working with creative humans and I was learning so much and I was also at that point in my career where I no longer was faking it till I make it. I think in your 30s and you know in your 20s you're like yes I know what I'm doing and then you just pray that when you make a decision that it actually works out the way that it's going to and I had actually gotten to a point in my career where I'm like if you don't do this this is what's going to happen. And I finally felt like an expert in my field, like I knew what I was doing. That experience was very humbling for me because I was convinced that I either had a brain tumor or I was having a stroke or that I was dying. There's no way that I could be doing this to myself. So I went on all of the health and wellness journey, that was the beginning of my journey really, but I did all of the tests, all the tests. I had a CAT scan. I had, I mean, like I went to all the doctors to be like, tell me what's wrong with me. And once you tell me what's wrong with me, I will have a game plan and then we will figure that out. And I think when we have a medical issue, our first conclusion and our first step in getting towards healing is to go to all the doctors and tell them to give us a plan. I think that yes. for people that are like you describe you were. I think there's also a group of people that will ignore it or choose to deny it. But before we get there, I was wondering, I mean, the way you describe kind of your, I guess your approach to work and whatnot. I talked to a lot of people about this kind of what I've deemed like society's checklist of like our checklist life. Like we had to... graduate high school, then we had to get the great job or go to college and then get the great job, one or the other, and then get promoted and then keep going. Were you someone that was very much like, next, let me accomplish this next thing kind of thing and be super driven that got you to that burnout point, or was it a different journey for you? It was a little bit of a different journey for me. And I think it had a lot to do with what was going on in the world at the time. So I graduated college in 2001. Again, there were like no jobs to be had. In 2008, I was actually laid off from, I was, in that year I was fired and laid off from a job. Very humbling experience, especially when I've always been like a top performer. That was probably another one of those valleys that I had gone through because. I didn't think that that would ever happen to me. I remember calling my mom in tears and her telling me that I had to move home. And I was like, I will be a barista. I will be a nanny. I will have an Etsy shop. I will do something, but I will, I am not moving home. That is not happening. But yes, I've always been very driven. That led me to my first kind of entrepreneurial role, which then led me into this other job. The irony behind all of this is, In many ways, I believe that society was telling me that I needed to get married and I needed to have kids. And I believe that I was working so hard because I didn't want those things at that time in my life. I wasn't ready for those things. That makes sense. It was kind of like, I can't. Yeah. And a lot, all of my friends were doing it and I threw all of my drive and all of my passion into work. How much were you working? Like, was it an exorbitant amount or was it just just a lot of work. You know what I'm saying? Like, was it like, I was working 80 hours a week or it was just like, I'm pouring every ounce of my being into this in my 40 hour a week. I was definitely at like 60, 70 hours a week. I mean, I was responsible. I did, I loved it. I mean, again, I was working for this great brand. I had offices all over the world. I had this remit that was, I think, stoked to jealousy within my colleagues. I was able to put something on my LinkedIn I was super proud of. Even today, if I'm introducing myself or someone else is introducing me in the corporate world, they will talk about the brands that I worked with, which has led me, again, we'll talk about this later, but has led me to a different place in my career because I have such an issue now with being validated by the work that we've done versus who we actually are as humans. I was wondering, and I know you said that was a different journey for you. For me, a lot of my... successes came from this need to be validated. And it sounds like that wasn't, was that where you were at that point? I know you mentioned like now, maybe it's a little different, but did it, cause you were like, I could put on, I could put something on LinkedIn and people would be impressed. Was that, I know we're in the same generation here where I graduated college in 2003. So we're right around the same period. And I feel like that journey for me was very much like everyone needs to see how successful I was becoming. Yes, that, but I also think in many ways it was more self-validation. I needed to understand and I needed to prove to myself that yes, you are succeeding and yes, this is where you're valued and that this is where your worth is. Part of it is probably because I'm a twin. I was gonna ask that. There is a lot of, and we're fraternal, we are very good friends, we could not be any more different, but we are both very successful at what we do. And there's never been a time where our parents have loved one of us more because of that success, and we're not competitive with that success. I just think... in many ways, for me, it was a personal thing that I needed to prove my own self-worth and my own success to myself. I still suffer with that. Yeah, I mean, I can imagine, even as fraternal twins, I think that you share a lot, right? You share birthdays and you share these milestones. And I can imagine that someone would want to still feel like an individual, not attached to something all the time. Yes. Definitely. So that makes sense for the self-validation more so than that external thing, which was what I absorbed as an only child. It was very much like, look at me. I'm okay out here. And the irony behind all of that too is I'm in PR. So my job has always been highlighting and empowering others. Never myself, which I also think drives back that message that I was really seeking my own self-validation. than I was throwing it out in the university, like everybody look at me, look at me, here I am, I'm successful. But I wanted to have that big job when I went to my high school reunion. I wanted to be able to say that I was doing the things that I had driven to do. And I think in many ways, it was important for me to have that title and that career because I wasn't married and I didn't have kids. So this is what I was doing with my time. as additional validation in a way. There's a little external piece there because other people are kind of maybe pressuring you without pressuring you, but also being like, okay, you're this age, you should be doing this because society tells us that that's what we should be doing. Exactly. What was happening in your journey that you think brought you to that medical emergency, if you will, had you seen those events like... kind of snowball into that or was it just really sudden? A few weeks prior to me landing in the hospital, I had had a previous experience where I'd gotten home from work and it was just a really long day and an event didn't go so great. And I got home and I had a migraine and it was extremely painful, but I was also starting to slur my words. And I remember calling my mom. my medical intuitive. And she's like, she also suffers from migraines. I was like, just go to sleep. You're going to be fine. I'm sure this is just, I'm sure you're just tired. Tired has a lot to do with me also. Me needs to put myself in a timeout, in honesty, and migraines force me to do that. So in many ways, it's also protecting me in a weird way. And then when I had this burnout It was just a really bad day at the office. Everything went wrong. There was a big corporate meeting that went wrong. I gave counsel on something, they did the exact opposite. And I learned through therapy that I would also give myself migraines not only to give myself a timeout, but to punish myself for not being successful at what I had set out to do. which is just mind-blowing to me, because you're like, oh my God, you did this to yourself? And when I finally had that realization, I mean, that's also just heartbreaking. Yeah, have you read The Body Keeps the Score? I know a lot of people talk about that book. I have, yes. And I mean, what you're saying. I feel that deeply, yes. Yeah, what you're saying, even to the smaller degree, we should say smaller in quotes here, of you getting a migraine when your body was like, you need to rest. like there needs to be some downtime here for us to recover. That part seems to be a little bit more subconscious, maybe? I mean, I guess it's all subconscious, but I think that's more of your body protecting itself, whereas this punishment piece is an interesting component of your body kind of, or you, how did you come to realize that, I guess, through therapy, but how did you like connect those dots? I worked with a metaphysical healer. So I did traditional therapy. It did not work for me. I felt like they always blamed everything on my parents and gave me no, like actual tools to function as an adult in society. And I was recommended by my executive coach to work with this woman. And I remember the very first session. She is, is no joke. I mean, it was like. When you walk in, you are ready to work. She gives you homework. If you don't do the homework, she will reschedule you for a next session, charging you for that session. You are accountability. And the very first thing she says to you is you are responsible for how you react and how you feel about everything. Unless someone comes up and punches you in the face, how you choose to react to something is on you. And that was kind of a mind blowing moment for me. And then, you know, she does a lot of guided meditations and walks you through talking to your inner child and all of that stuff. And I pretty much told myself that I was giving myself migraines. Then I was able to unpack that and realize major moments in my life where I had taken myself out of the situation. Birthdays, special events, meetings that I had gone very badly with my boss, And an hour later, I was throwing up in the bathroom and had a massive migraine and had to sleep in my car. And once that clicked for me, now that's not the only reason I get migraines as migraine sufferers will tell you, like your triggers are dozens and they're very annoying and we are a population that no one still understands what exactly is happening to us. But when you do have something like that said to you, I mean, it was a... It was like getting slapped across the face. It was just crazy. But it was what you needed. It's exactly what I needed to start thinking about how to heal that trauma, and then also how to not punish myself physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, but let's start with physically. Right, yeah. So take us back to this medical, you've made it to the ER, and you think you're dying, right? You think like... I mean, I can't talk. Or if you have a brain tumor, you have like something's happening. Yeah, I mean, I had thrown up on the way there. I can't, I have no motor skills. I literally like wobble, like waddled into the emergency room and fell down. I drove myself, which I think about that, and I'm like, oh my God, like thank God I didn't kill someone. Like this all happened very fast. I had a headache by the time I left the office. Thank you, LA traffic. By the time I had gotten to the emergency room, I was... like kind of incapacitated, couldn't really talk, couldn't explain to anybody what was going on. They strapped me onto a hospital bed, take me in the back, start doing tests. At this point, they're yelling at me of what drugs I had taken. They're trying to figure out if indeed I am having a stroke because I can't speak, everything is really slurred. And then I go into shock. And then I'm just. freezing and shaking. And I'm also by myself in the hospital. Finally, I had calmed myself down enough to kind of get out that I was having a migraine. And an hour and a half later, they come back and they're like, oh, you're having a migraine. Like all your tests came back fine. No drugs there. And at that point, my dad had showed up. So I at least had somebody in the hospital with me. They gave me some migraine medicine. Half hour later, my migraines gone. Two hours later, they put me in my car. I drove 10 blocks home and I had 400 emails. I had like 30 missed calls. It was about eight o'clock at night and I started working again. And went to work the next morning like nothing was wrong. So at what point did you stop? Like, what made you stop and go, wait a second, maybe this is not serving me the best way or was there a moment or are you still doing that? When they came back. Again, when I did all the tests, right? I did like CAT scans and blood work and all that stuff. And they came back and nobody can find anything wrong with me. And I remember a neurologist saying to me, you just did this to yourself. This is what burnout looks like. And again, that's like a jarring thing to think that you cause yourself so much pain. That was when I went on a very intensive healing journey. I did not care what... would solve my problem, I was gonna try it. So I have done everything from past life regressions in Topanga, not my favorite experience, to Chinese medicine, to I did allergy shots three times a week for two years. I mean, I've done everything. Like you name it, I have tried it. Crazy body work, like hypnosis, I've done it all. What was driving that? Was it driving? Were you driving yourself so that you could continue working as hard and doing all the same things or you truly trying to figure out this actual medical piece? Was it more about that or was it more about getting back to what you were doing? That is a great question that no one has ever asked me. And the reality is it's both. I am very happy when I'm working. I love to work. It feels... like I'm living my purpose in many ways of what I'm supposed to be doing. But I also wanted to find a way where I wasn't going to be in pain all the time. So I had to do the emotional work. I had to do the trauma work. I had to do the physical work in order to kind of heal all those parts for things to work properly. I mean, you can't just heal one part and then hope that the rest of it's all going to like, just catch up. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't? No. Wouldn't it be awesome if it could? the version of you before this major event, would you have done that kind of soul searching? Was that even in your mind space or was it just like leave that alone kind of thing? I've always been very spiritual. I've never really felt connected to a single religion or honestly religion at all. I've had intuitive readings done. I've always done kind of different modalities of physical work, whether it's chiropractics or heller work, roughing, all that kind of stuff, just because I feel like our bodies are a home and we only get one of them. So if we don't take care of it at a young age, it's not something that you can repair when you're in your seventies. And just, at that point, yes, we should all be working to be the best physical versions of ourselves, but I had always done that. this healing journey, I was willing to, again, try anything and really wanted to unlock alternative modes of healing because the traditional stuff I was working, or I was doing was just not working. So yeah, in many ways, I've always been interested in that. This was the push that I needed to just do it. Yeah, I mean, I think we all have like a trigger that might push us. slightly over like we're teetering on the edge and that just that not that this was a small thing, this was a big thing. And you started out this whole conversation saying that someone might look at your trauma moment and think it's nothing, but it was. That's a medical emergency. That is something your body is telling you. It's stopping your ability to do a lot of your normal activities to be, to give you a warning. So I would not diminish the the level of the trauma that you've experienced, because again, that was what you probably needed in that really tough, tough moment to be this version of you or to lead you towards this version of you or no? Yes, and I also think that when I unpack what my trauma looks like, my trauma was actually having an entire lifetime of migraines. All of the things that I've missed, all of the self-punishment that I was putting myself through, all of the physical pain that I was experiencing, this was just an extreme manifestation of that trauma. So the trauma was really the connecting the dots? Yes. Not so much all the things that actually happened, but now you reflecting on Oh, I might have done this to myself or my body might have done this to me in this way here, trauma, not necessarily like that one birthday or that one whatever event. Exactly. I get that. Because then I think a lot of people kind of look back in even, you know, you mentioned all these different modalities of therapy, but even in the most traditional sense. there is that moment where someone unlocks something and then all that floods in and I can see how that can be a really big trauma moment. I have something very similar where I went, I just did the traditional route of therapy. So I did the talk therapy and I hated the ones with homework. That did not work for me. That was not my thing. I had enough of that, but I had this one woman who, my mom died when I was eight. And so it took me. 20-something years to get to this woman, this therapist. And the one thing she said to me, which is kind of like unlocking what you had, that slap across your face, was you realize that everything you're doing, you did as that eight-year-old. Like all the decisions that you made. And I'm like, man, if I could go back and make all those different decisions, where would I be right now? And so yeah, that was like a flood of... I can imagine probably similar to that uncovering of your, what these migraines were doing in your life at all those different moments in time. A thousand percent, yes. And the other thing I think when you have a physical manifestation of something. you always need to get to the root cause of why. And that's more trauma that you're uncovering. Why do I feel this way? Why is this happening to me? And trying to not be a martyr about it either, which is hard, again, depending on your age and your circumstance. And I always find it fascinating at what age people really do start to uncover their trauma. and how you deal with it. I know you've talked a lot about what works for one doesn't work for the other. So I'm so glad that you talked about the fact that therapy that way didn't work for you because therapy the way that you did it didn't work for me. I just felt like I was paying somebody to complain to. I can do that for free. Right. There you go. There is no silver bullet of healing. And as I've been through this journey and I've been through this evolution of what, kind of person I am and how I show up in the world, different modalities are working differently. Yeah, which I always find fascinating. Yeah, what works now would not have worked five years ago. I mean, I think there's something to be said about your openness to trying all those things, because the first step is really just being ready or willing to find one. Right? To just try one, to be ready for that. You can't be forced into it. If someone was like, you went to the hospital, before you come back to work, you have to go to therapy, or you have to go do this. That's not gonna work, right? You're just gonna check a box at that point, but you have to truly be ready to experience this. So there's, but then on top of that, you add your layer of like, I'm gonna find the exact one that works. And if, even if this sounds all woo woo or or someone's gonna laugh at me for doing it, I'm gonna try it anyway, because it might work. Yes. And the wild thing is, again, as I was very interested in spirituality before, it has played such a huge role in the type of person that I am now, how I show up in the world. And it was not something that I was really seeking out. It was more, thankfully I live in Los Angeles and everyone is open to all of the things here. So, you know, you could on a Wednesday night go to a sound bath in Venice and you'll be with like CEOs of major companies and it's not weird. There is a lot of beauty in that of just acceptance of alternative modes of healing. But what was the real turning point for me is in my evolution of healing and all of the things, you figure out really quickly what doesn't work and then you dive into the next thing that does or that you hope does. I still don't know if I have found by the way, what works. I am still on this journey. I really believe that as we heal, we ascend and we become energetically stronger people. And there is no ceiling. I know a lot of people talk about enlightenment. I just don't. really believe in that. I believe we just are always gonna continue to grow and learn as humans. There's something about enlightenment that really bugs me because people who say that they're enlightened, the idea of enlightenment is that you've let go of all ego. But you're telling somebody you're enlightened, which in essence is telling somebody that you're better than them. There's something about that, the whole thing that just makes me laugh. Well, you're not holding the mic, but if you wanted to drop it, you could at this point, but. No, I think you're right there. I have a lot to say about that, but I'm not gonna say it because I like for people to continue listening to the LifeShift podcast. But how did you go from, because I don't think you're doing what you were doing before. So maybe you can tell us what that journey professionally looked like after or during, because you say you're still continuing, how did your life change after that trigger and then the search for healing afterwards? So I was seeing a Chinese medicine woman who does acupuncture and energy work and all the things. In one week, three different people told me that I needed to meet this woman, Helen. And again, I'm on this path of yes. If you're on a healing journey and somebody says, go talk to this person, just say yes and see what happens. That is really the universe just pointing you in the right direction. I looked at this woman, Helen, and she's an Akashic record reader. I had no idea what that was. I don't know what that is. You are not alone. It is an intuitive modality that is connecting with the Akashic records, which is in essence, a library of your soul's journey. Past, present, future. Doing a reading with an Akashic record reader is like having any kind of intuitive reading. Like if you were to go see the Long Island medium or Tyler the medium, it would be a similar experience. They can dive into past lives and all that stuff. So I look up to do a reading with Helen and it's quite expensive. And I am not going to lie, like my healing journey has been the cost of a house in Los Angeles. So I'm very fortunate that I come from a place where I have the means to be able to pay for healing in a way that others don't. Probably why I worked so hard for so long, strictly so I could pay for this. Yeah, your body was making you do it. 100%. So I look up Helen, this reading's expensive, and I'm like, oh, God, I can't do this. And then I look and realize that she has got a beginner class, and I've got nothing happening the next weekend. And I'm a voracious, curious learner. Like, give me something to learn, and I will want to learn it, especially in terms of healing. So I take her class and I've always been very intuitive. Like if you look back at all of my like corporate reviews that I've ever had with my bosses, they've always said that like that is my superpower in the office is intuitively knowing where to go and you know, how to handle things. Makes me a good PR person. And I took her class and everything clicked. It was so easy for me. And then, and this is the 2019, I was also, I had learned how to meditate, I was journeying, I was doing breath work, I was just kinda leaning into all the things that are available to us. 2020 hits, I was also to the point where I just was very over my job. I was not finding joy in what I was doing anymore. I quit my job on March 2nd of 2020. on March 17th, the world goes into lockdown. And it's almost like the human world, it's like a stereo. The human world got quiet and the spiritual world got very loud. I was doing readings for the side for my friends as I was practicing. And I was working at a very well-known global ad agency. my clients and my colleagues were all, you know, CMOs and C-suite leaders at major companies. And now that we're all at home on Zoom, just trying to figure out, you know, what's going on with the world, I started doing readings for friends. And in 2020, I did over 100 readings for C-suite leaders at Fortune 500 companies and startups and consultants and colleagues. And as I practiced, It was all just getting more clear. I am again, you're gonna laugh. I went to go get a CAT scan to make sure I didn't have a brain tumor because I wanted to make sure that I wasn't insane. Like I'm like, why am I hearing messages now? This is crazy. I mean, because there has to, like I am a corporate human. Like that's, I think that's a thing that people were, are really comfortable with me in terms of doing a reading because I don't look like that woo woo wee psychic. that you're gonna run into, people know me as and validate me as a successful marketer, a successful comms consultant. So I had, I think part of what made me and makes me better at my job is I have this validation in the corporate world. So it allows people who are not necessarily normally comfortable with the spiritual world to be a little more comfortable with it. Yeah, I can see that. And I think that's because we're programmed to feel that way more than anything else. Yes, exactly. And the irony behind all of this is my migraines have actually gotten much better. I have a neurologist that asks me about my readings, asks me about my process, which I find fascinating. And in the last year, I have tied these two worlds together. Wait, before you tell me that, I want to ask you something. Do you think, I'm sure you've thought this, because I've thought it, and clearly I don't have that many unique ideas, but do you think that you, the migraines are getting better now because you're not consciously trying to kind of shut that part of your brain down? Like maybe your whole life, you were kind of like quieting that piece because you were programmed that you needed to be successful corporate. person in the world doing great things with your work that showed on paper or on LinkedIn or wherever that you were successful, but now that you've kind of like opened that side, do you think that's kind of like a physical de-manifestation, if you will? Like your physical symptoms are not coming out as much because you're not closing those in? You nailed it. Yes. A thousand percent. And... It makes sense. .. part of... It totally makes sense, right? And part of what I coach a lot of people on, because I also do spiritual coaching, by the way, everyone, or a lot of people at least, in the last few years have become so much more open to what else is out there and how else can I connect and how else can I heal. And just like we were talking about how amazing it is that we have a generation that's actually talking about trauma, what a gift that is for a younger generation. In many ways, I believe that what I do is an ability. It is not a gift. I refuse to call it a gift. I think everybody has access to do what I do. When you're born, everybody has this ability. Society tells us to turn it off. We turn it off. We suppress it as long as we can until we have some kind of traumatic experience that awakens that ability back up. And then we learn how to process it. The beauty of this generation that is coming into the world right now is that they have parents who are not encouraging them to turn it off, who are telling them, what are you hearing? What are you feeling? What are you seeing? You know, charge your crystals at midnight. What is your astrological sign? Let's lean into that. And because they're not turning it off, I do believe sense of energy in our collective and a heightened sense of healing in our collective. And we're raising better communicators, people who are more energetically aligned to heal and to, I think, be part of community. And our generation is still in that wake up process of what that means. college-age students a lot in my real job. And to that point, I think people are more open, just in general, but also they're validated in their openness, in which our generation growing up, we were not validated unless it was, or I wasn't validated unless it was what was prescribed normally from our parents' generation, right? And so. I think we're in this space to your point that it's even beyond like the spiritual piece, the fact that people feel welcomed to be their own person and not a clone of the person that came before them or a particular mold that they're supposed to fit into is a nice refreshing component of what I see emerging from this worldwide pandemic, you know, that we've all experienced together. Because A lot of people call it a collective trauma. I found a lot of awakening in it, in a lot of people that I talk to, but also in myself and feeling like a different person emerging as well, just because of that pause. So I agree with what you say. Yeah, and I totally agree with that too. I believe that as so many of us were faced with death and change of what society looks like and what the world's gonna look like moving forward, priorities are different. People are seeking joy, people are seeking love, people are seeking connection and purpose. And what a beautiful world that we could live in if all of us could authentically be ourselves. Like that'd be rad. We still have a lot of work to do, but yeah. We have a lot of work to do. I have hope, but I interrupted when you were telling us kind of how you've merged your worlds together and what you've kind of created. So I wanna make sure that we touch on that. Like... What does your world look like now? It was very scary to admit that there was a place where I could bring together the spiritual world and the corporate world and be accepted by my peers. But there was also kind of not an option. I was doing work, I work with executives in their personal branding. And what I've done for the last 25 years is really marketing and communications, media relations, consulting. And when I quit my job in 2020, I had this plan that I was going to be consulting with brands and startups and creative agencies. And that just evolved as... leaders were changing what they were wanting to do in the world and were reaching out for guidance. I was literally in a session with a woman working on her personal brand and really uncovering her stories and her guides came through and I said, oh my God, I am so sorry. Like no one knows that I do this on the side. Like I'm like the undercover reader for all of these people, strictly referral, but your guides are saying all these things and like, can I tell you? And she was like, oh, Oh my God, are you kidding? I read my Oracle cards. Like tell me all the things I can't wait. And I told her all the things and I realized if I could create a process or a methodology and include an intuitive reading at the beginning, I can uncover your locks around abundance. I can uncover your soul purpose, your life purpose. And then I can tie that all together with my corporate training to make you the best version of you in the corporate world. Now, people that I've done this with, and I've now done this for like two years, my business has gone from 20% personal branding and 80% corporate work to 5% corporate work and 95% personal branding, which brings me so much joy because I get to uncover stories. I'm really living my purpose of that idea that when people are telling their authentic stories, what an amazing impact that they get to make in the world. And if I'm the one who can help excavate that story and also help give you the confidence to tell it, like job done. And everything I do for my clients, I've done for myself. So I've put myself through, you know, scary change and announcements. I mean, even putting out that announcement that I'm a medium on LinkedIn. I mean, I thought there was no way in hell people were going to accept that. And the irony behind all of that is people kept coming back and they're like, that does not surprise me at all. I'm like, oh, I was so scared of this. And this is not shocking, like, cool. So it does bring me a lot of joy that I get to do it all together. And I think part of my mission too is just to overcome this spiritual bias in corporate worlds. You can believe what I do or not believe what I do. I know that it works. I also know that I help people with their own trauma. And I help people with their own imposter syndrome and limiting beliefs and all of that stuff that we struggle with on a regular basis and help people live as a better version of themselves. I mean, I think it's wonderful. I think that it makes sense that you're... not going to be for everyone. There are people that just won't subscribe to that. And that's OK. You know personal branding. You know that each person, you're not there to satisfy the whole entire world. So I think it's wonderful that you lean into this and you put it out there. And people have all sorts of opinions about everything, not just mediumship or any of those. You know, like it's run the gamut of podcasters or, you know, anything. Totally. So I think it's wonderful to see someone. I think what the average person could take from your story is that there is joy or there is a potential for joy to lean into what brings you joy. Lean into the things that you feel that you're good at, that you enjoy doing, and that you can still bring or you can bring great joy to others or help or whatever. you were doing what was expected of you and what you expected of yourself based on growing up and just being corporate stuff. But now that you're able to unlock some things that were always there and kind of lean into that piece of it, but also still have all this cool stuff and find your own path. I think that's what people need to start. I think people are doing it now more, but I think that that's what I would take from your story is that inspiration to just like lean in. to what you have to offer, the abilities that you have, there are people out there that need it. Always. I remember my coach said to me, with anything, yes. I remember my coach said to me, in the search of the authentic you, are you more scared to be the accepted version or the rejected version of that self? And I had it on a Post-it on my computer and then like up on my wall for like almost two years. And the second he asked me that question, I remember saying in my head, I'm so, I don't wanna be the rejected version of myself. I just don't wanna be that person anymore, but I'm way more scared to be the accepted version because then I have to be her. Everybody likes the rejected version. She is what society expects and society has welcomed her with open arms and has given her a lot in return. You fit the comfortable mold before. Yeah, and then if I have to be this, this actual authentic version of myself, there's you can't put that back in the box. Once you're out, you're out. It is what it is. So even when I put out my own story, I as a as a PR person, had like a backup plan. I'm like, if everybody rejects me and thinks that this is like crazy, I will just put all my stuff in storage and travel and figure out my shit for the next year until this all settles. And then come back, I'll eat, pray, love. And I'll come back and I'll get a job that I'll hate in the corporate world that is societally acceptable. That you could do just fine. That I could do just fine and I'd be miserable every day. And had migraines. And have migraines. So in many ways, I really encourage everyone to really think about what does bring you joy, what does bring you happiness. Nailed down what that is because a lot of the time that is actually quite hard. What do you really hate? What is it that is actually? Sucking the joy out of you That you want to get rid of Because there is a lot of fear and being Authentic you it's super scary. Yeah. Yeah. Well and it's funny. I see it now Since I had that moment with that therapist. I've really unlocked a lot of things and started sharing a lot more and It's funny, I'll share the parts that we've been told never to share out loud. I'll just make a social media post because I know I'm not the only one feeling that way and I need to get it out and that's my way of processing. But I'll get messages, I'll get two kinds of messages. I'll get the message that, like, thank you for posting that. I'm feeling the same way, really validated. Those are great. But then I get the messages, why are you sharing that? You're supposed to keep that hidden. And I'm like, no. But I can tell you why those people are saying that to you. Because they're afraid of it. They're afraid of it, but they're also, they have something that they need to share. And they're projecting on you that they're scared to share that message. There's so much mirroring that goes on, obviously, with emotion and, I think, in general mental health. And it always shocks me that people have the need to send a message like that. What was the point? I don't know, I kind of like it because I'm just like, here's why, here's what I've learned by doing it. Maybe you wanna lean into that person. Well, I love that. And I think that's so great that you do that because honestly, like what a gift that is to so many people. A, that you share your story and your message and B, that you remind people that, the gifts that you get back from when you do do that. So thank you, keep doing that. Well, I'm gonna try. Recently I shared a picture. on LinkedIn, of all places, of a moment in my life when I had the final conversation with my grandmother a couple of months before she died, and we like said everything. We said the things that you don't normally get the opportunity to say and thank each other for everything that we've given each other. And I was a, like I knew when I left that room that that was the last time I was gonna have a real conversation with her. I was, I posted a picture of what I looked like at that moment from like eight or nine years ago. And like, a decade ago version of me would never have done that. But I wanted people to know that, look, I am a human first, before I am a man, before I am what society tells me that I should, showed or should not be doing, or feeling, or expressing, or sharing. And I got so many nice messages from a lot of people, just about like, thank you for sharing this. I felt the same way. and the vulnerability you share, to me, I think, what if me doing that helps them be a little bit more vulnerable? You know? Maybe that's a win for society as a whole. Exactly. And that's exactly how I felt when I put out my kind of coming out of the spiritual closet story. Because I know I'm not alone. I mean, there was a reason why all of these people during the pandemic wanted to do a reading. Like, they're all searching for something else and are willing to look anywhere possible to get it. And I also think this idea that society has prescribed around what is allowed to heal us and what we're allowed to talk about is very antiquated. And the irony behind all of this is if you actually look at really alternative modes of healing, they're all real old. I mean, you're going back to, you know, acupuncture and, you know, Chinese herbs and medicine and psilocybin and all of these things that people have been using for centuries that now we're like, oh, this is new and cool and fun. It's proven. It's old. So what's all, I mean, it's really funny because I even think about like, you know, 90s trends and 2000s trends and all of these like curls on TikTok that are saying like, oh my God, did you know that you could do this? And it's all stuff that we were doing like 20, 30 years ago. And I think about that with healing is there's so many things that we should be going back and thinking about happened years and years and years ago. I mean, if you think about kings and queens and you know, leaders, they had medicine women, they had psychics, they had witches, they had all of these people who were informing their stuff. And then we apparently got to this time where it just wasn't acceptable. And I'm like super pumped for the next 30 years where everyone's going to be having these intuitive consultants again. It'll be really rad. I mean, I think it comes back to the beginning and what we talked about in the power of story by sharing these things out loud. We're creating more space for that, for it to be just part of the normal conversation, and not shying away from it or just talking about this one lane that we've always been talking about or that someone told us or kept us in this lane. So keep doing what you're doing, sharing these stories and helping people uncover things about them and then using that corporate side to make them do it right and to put it out there in the proper way. I like to kind of wrap up these calls with a question. And I'm wondering if like this version of you where you're fully embracing that spiritual side, but also having that corporate knowledge, is there anything you could go back to that version of you that was working so dang hard and getting close to that burnout moment? Is there anything that you could say to her that you feel might plant a seed a little bit earlier? No. And I say that because I believe that everywhere we are in our journey is exactly where we're supposed to be. I don't believe when people say like, oh, I got off my path, or I took a wrong turn. I just don't believe that to be true. I believe that everything that happens to us was meant to happen to us for a reason, to learn a lesson that we needed to learn, or to point us in a direction that we need to go. I don't necessarily believe that like we're destined and this is where fate is gonna push you, but I do believe that the choices that we make inform the next choice that we will make and the decisions that will lead us to where we will find joy and love and happiness. So I don't think I would have wanted to intervene with that at all because I don't think I'd actually be where I am meant to be today without that journey. I, you're not alone in that feeling. I think most people feel that way, especially those that have fully kind of, not fully, but have started to unpack how certain moments affect their lives or affected their lives and how they can learn from that. You know, I think you think about the time when you realize all those different migraine moments and the decisions that you were making and how that, like that informs you now as well. You know, that trauma that you experience of uncovering that. probably informs how you approach things now and how it allowed you to open up your mind and allow those abilities to be more forefront. So, this is exactly why I do the show because I did not expect this conversation to go this way. And I so appreciate it because what it tells me is to just keep leaning into the things that I feel that I do well and the things that bring me joy. And I love that you're doing that, but you're... you're serving so many people by what you're offering to the world. So thank you for just being a part of this and sharing your story. Thank you. And the best advice I can give, I mean, my company is called the good advice company. So I feel like I need to leave you with a little bit of advice is to be present. It's, it is the thing that I try to do every day. It is the thing that I think is the hardest thing to do every day, but it is also the thing that I believe brings us the most joy we can find. in our everyday lives. So really, thank you for being present in this moment and allowing me to do the same. Well, I appreciate you and I appreciate those of you listening to the LifeShift Podcast and I'm not going to ask for it this time. Am I? No, I'm not going to ask for a review or rating this time, but we will be back next week with a brand new episode of the LifeShift Podcast. For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com