Marie Alessi on Choosing Joy After Her Husband’s Sudden Death

00:00 Not all grief looks the way we expect. When Marie Alessi's husband died suddenly while on a business trip, the life that they had so intentionally built together changed in an instant. But what followed wasn't only sorrow. In this episode, Marie shares how a promise made years earlier became the guiding force in her healing, and how choosing joy doesn't mean denying the pain. Her story challenges the narrative around grief and reminds us that loss and lightness can exist side by side. 00:30 And that was my right underneath the feet moment. I did not see that coming. I did not see that coming. And when you turn back, you see a lot of things that happened like the nudge moments. But in that moment, it just pulled the right underneath my feet. And I just slipped into this world of surreal where I felt like I had come to a standstill and everything around me continued spinning. 00:59 And this is the Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever. 01:16 Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Life Shift podcast. am here with Marie. Hello, Marie. Hey, Matt. Thank you for being a part of the Life Shift podcast before we even have this conversation. This show comes from my own experience. As a kid, I was eight years old and my dad had to sit me down and tell me that my mom had been killed in a motorcycle accident. And at that moment, my parents were divorced. They lived a thousand miles apart. I was visiting my dad for the summer. 01:43 so that my mom could do her adult things and have a good time as a single, well, she had a boyfriend, but as a woman that was not married. And he had to sit me down and tell me that. And at that moment that he told me, everything in my life was going to be different. I was going to have to live with a different parent. I was going to have to move to a different state. I was going to have to go to a different school. This was late 80s, early 90s. And for me, the people around me were not talking about. 02:11 how to help a kid grieve, how to be okay, anything. And so I just assumed that I had to show everyone I was fine. And so I became this perfectionist and behind the scenes, I was a mess, obviously, and I would wonder, do other people have these line in the sand moments and from one second to the next second, everything about their life is different? And so I've been on this journey now with the Life Shift since 2020. 02:41 talking to people about the many different pivotal moments in their lives that have shifted them. We have more than one, most of us, but some of us have really significant ones, whether they're external things that have happened to us or people around us, or they're something that we've manifested on our own. So it's been such a blessing and I'm so grateful that you want to share your story in your way and have this conversation with me because... 03:06 we were talking before, the more we share these types of stories, I think the more permission we give to people that are listening to also feel comfortable in their story. thanks again. couldn't agree more. And first of all, thank you for sharing this story with me. My mama bear heart instantly cracked a little bit when I heard that because I can only imagine. And I will share my story shortly. But the age is the exact same age that my son was. 03:35 It's very important and I think, you know, for so long I didn't talk about it and I didn't feel comfortable sharing exactly how I felt and I kind of absorbed the words that the people around me would say, like, she passed away. And I was like, the older I got, was like, but she didn't. She was, know, like there was a different, there was a different word that I wanted to use that felt more right and not what other people told me to use. So that's what these conversations do. So it's just. 04:04 a blessing. I love this. I really, really love this because I feel that language is so important when we talk about these things and not try to sugarcoat anything. But there's also that moment where you like you don't want to shock people. Sometimes you do actually. yeah, depends on the situation. yeah. And I think of, you know, the people around me, and you've probably witnessed this and probably experienced this as well in your own life. The people around you most of the time are doing the best that they know how to do with the tools that they have. 04:34 You know, I think that my dad was honestly doing the best he knew how to do because he was in shock too and he didn't know how to like go through the world. So in any case, before we get into your story, maybe you can kind of tell us who Marie is. 2025. How do you show up in the world? Like, how do you identify? Who Marie is, I feel rather grown up these days and I also feel like I 05:00 had to learn the hard way a lot of things in my life. So I feel I'm standing very strong. I stand for a mission that I deeply, deeply believe in, which is bringing more lightness into grief. That's my whole umbrella. That's my whole cape I'm wearing when I step out into the world. And I have a huge heart and a huge mission to bring that to the world and to talk about exactly what you just said, you know. 05:23 Let's normalize conversations. I'm a speaker, I'm an author, I'm a coach, I'm a TEDx speaker, and first and foremost, I'm a mama bear in shining armor. That's who I am. And yeah, let's start with that. Well, that's, mean, kudos to you for taking on that honor slash responsibility to help other people get language, use the right words, feel the right things. 05:49 I empathize with you and I'm sure you have practices, but I'm sure there are moments in which that's really heavy. There's a lot of responsibility that comes with that. And do you have self-care practices in which you don't absorb and do those kinds of things to protect yourself? Yes, 100%. And it's, you have no idea how divine the timing is that you're asking me that. The last two, three weeks have been rather heavy for me, which is so atypical. I live my life really from it. 06:18 very deliberate and intentional space of lightness and choosing joy and happiness and lightness in my life. In the last two, three weeks have been rather heavy for me. And I'm more than happy to talk about this, but my self-care practices became so much more important than any other day. You know, I really had to pick myself up and do the whole soothing hot bath, going to the gym. 06:42 going out to walk in nature. And I did all those things, not just naming them because they sound so cool. I really did those things because I could feel that something was missing. My heart was aching and it was heavier than usual. So we just had my husband's passing anniversary. We get to that story in a minute. And for some reason that I don't even know exactly why. 07:06 this year felt a lot heavier than others. So I always knew how to prepare for the anniversaries. I teach that stuff. I share that with other people. I walk that journey and that path with other people, how to prepare for an anniversary and in particular the time after. And this year hit me harder than ever. I can't even tell you why. And it was really, I felt so vulnerable. I felt a lot of loneliness around the time. 07:33 I felt unsupported. There were all these things where I'm like, wow, this is interesting. I've created all that for me in my life to feel supported and not feel lonely. I had gotten to a point where I actually enjoy being a sole parent, you know, so when both my sons are out partying, staying with other people, whatever, it really happens that I have the house to myself. And 08:00 I had the house all to myself and my cat was gone. I know that might sound weird for some people, your cat was gone, whatever. She disappeared for three days. She never, ever does that. I was worried sick. I was worried that something might've happened to her. And also she is sort of a real deep connection between Rob and I still, you know, so she stands for a lot and that she disappeared on my husband's passing anniversary. And then the next day she was still gone and my boys were still, you know, with friends. 08:30 I felt this deep sense of loneliness and only afterwards I realized I was supposed to walk through that on my own. It was a particular reason why nobody was around. I believe in divine timing and guidance around that. So yes, absolutely important to use self-love, self-care. I really had to up that and double and triple that the last couple of weeks. And I feel like I'm on the other end, but I still feel the vulnerability of it. do. I think it's so important and I think it's beautiful. 08:59 someone like you that's deeply immersed in this can share that as well, because I think it breaks down the facade that a lot of us assume other people have, or maybe experts have, like they're impenetrable, there's like no breaking them, they're perfect, like we're just humans, and sometimes we can't figure things out, even if we know the logical answer. For me, a lot of my healing came in those moments in which 09:29 I was finally comfortable acknowledging when I wasn't okay. And instead of shaming or whatever other emotion I would assume that like I shouldn't be that way, once I was like, it's okay. I'm just a human showing up in this world and sometimes not everything is sunshine and rainbows. And sometimes that's okay. 09:53 You know, and that, so that was like a beautiful realization for me. No, no, no. I just had to laugh while I said that because yesterday when I felt, you know, I've come through that, that Valley that I felt I walked through, I got this massive rainbow outside and you just sang sunshine and rainbows and I literally had that rainbow and I'm like, Oh, thank you. It was like a reward, know, done it Marie. you go. Here's your rainbow. 10:17 Exactly. But you appreciate that part more, right? Like when you've lived through even if it's a small period of a couple days and you're like, know I'm going to get through this, but it's really hard right now. And there's something good about that. we'll talk more about, we'll get into your story because I think it's super important. think there's probably a lot of those type of moments in both of our lives that we can really relate to. 10:44 Getting into your story, maybe you can kind of paint the picture of your life leading up to this life shift moment that we're going to talk about and whatever you need to do to kind of paint the picture of who you were before this happened. I'm going to do this bullet point form because it's a very, very long story, but I try to keep it short and then we can, you know, dive deeper. So I grew up in Austria as one of five and I had this lifelong calling. I want to call it. It was a really deep calling to move to Australia. 11:13 I never understood it. could never pinpoint why or what sparked that for me. I have never seen any documentaries about Australia. I knew nothing about it. But I knew I had to live there. I had to move to the other side and live there. It was a really strong calling. had this early on. 17 years old, my dad asked me, what do you want for your birth? was like, a ticket to Australia. I still remember that. And I actually lived that dream. I followed that calling. 11:41 I came here first when I was 25, but it took me till almost 32 when I finally moved here. So you can do the maths now. I've been living here for 21 years and I just, yeah, I followed my heart by that. And when I, when I arrived in Australia the first time I had this feeling of coming home. It was this, finally, it was so bizarre. can't even explain it. And 10 months later I met Rob and another 10 months later we were married. 12:08 anyone would have told me that you got to move to the other side of the world. You meet the man of your dreams and you got to get me like Norway. If he is Mr. Right, he's still Mr. Right in three to five years. There's no rushing this. But when Rob proposed five months into meeting me, I was like, of course. It was so clear to me. It was so I had this everybody talks about when you know, you know, I never knew what people meant by that until I met Rob. I was like, ah, OK. And I never regretted it for a second in my life. So Rob and I were really that couple. 12:37 The one still madly in love and holding hands when we're walking on the street, know, 12 years into our marriage and two boys, Flynn and Jed. We had really created our dream life, the house near the beach and the two kids and absolute happiness, know, deepest happiness. And the most beautiful part about our love story, I find, was that we were so aware of how lucky we were. We were so aware and so... 13:05 deeply living and appreciating that because I lost my dad when I was 20. And I had no idea how to deal with that when I was 20. was nobody teaches you that, you we just talk about that nobody teaches you how to handle grief. And no one wants to help you either. Yeah. And it's a taboo topic. know, it's that well, let's let's talk about it. You know, I did get through it, but what it taught me and I often talk about this as the hidden gifts and adversity. 13:31 And one of those hidden gifts in my dad's passing was that I never lived my life from a letting life pass by sort of perspective anymore. I knew how precious life was more than anyone else at my age or in my circle of friends, I should say. And that was a real gift because Rob and I lived such a present relationship. We were so present with each other. We were so aware of where we were, where we were going and how much it meant to us. 14:02 So I love that. I can't remember one single day where I didn't tell Rob how much I loved him in our marriage, you know, and not from a space where I have to tell you because, know, I might not have you anymore. But I thought my heart's going to burst if I don't tell him. There was so much love for this person. And I love that we had that. It's just something that was very, very precious. And I always feel I had a very similar realization with my dad and with Rob. 14:30 that I thought in those few years that I had my dad, the 20 years that I had my dad, and the 12 years that I was married to Rob, I know for a fact that I've gotten so much more out of this, as in terms of love and connection, than other people might ever get in their entire life, still having them around, you know, because of the consciousness that we had for our situation, for our gift, for our love. Were you always... 14:56 that in tune? mean, it sounds like you were you had this dream to go to Australia since you were younger. Were you always in tune with like the emotions that you had and holding on to things? I know, like when you're when your father passed that kind of triggers like, oh, time here is precious. But it sounds like you also had an element of you have to enjoy things. Did you have that question? Nobody ever asked me that I, I believe I did. And I was probably not. 15:24 as aware of it back then as I am now. it's becoming aware of that gift, honing those talents, the intuition. I don't know if there's a talent, but to me, feel intuition has become one of my biggest assets. After Rob died, I double and tripled it. It became really intense afterwards. And now I've just learned to trust it. Yeah. Well, I mean, you had it as a kid and like it led you to this. 15:51 Let me to Australia. Which then unfolded into this other beautiful love story. mean, it brings on sadness and other things that we'll get to in a second. But there is something to be said. I think there's a lot of people listening and maybe this is the American cynic in me. There's a lot of people listening that we had dreams as kids, but we were never allowed to really. Or we never felt allowed to really dream that be to reality. 16:21 Like it was always just, you can dream that, but it's probably not gonna happen. And I don't know if people actually told me that, but that was what I assumed from society. But it sounds like that was never tamped down for you. It was more of like, the world's your oyster or were people like, you're crazy, why do you wanna go there? I think there was probably a bit of both. I know that my parents sort of... 16:47 wanted, and I'm saying that deliberately, wanted to raise me as you can do anything. But what they showed me didn't reflect that, if that makes sense. So my dad definitely had big dreams and unfortunately they didn't come to fruition in a way that he was hoping for. That has given me a few therapy sessions to deal with that, I have to say. So my dad had a really big dream of starting his own business and he did. 17:13 And he was amazing at his craft, at what he did. He was a construction engineer, yet he was not great at being a businessman. He trusted the wrong people, lost everything he had, and then eventually died of cancer. So that to me was my learning from when you follow your dream, you're going to die, basically. It took me years and years of therapy to unfold that, but here it is in a nutshell. And that... 17:37 was a really big thing for me because I had so many dreams and I was following my dreams. But there was always this, well, you know, I think some subconscious part of me was always like, if I follow my dream, am I going to die? then it makes sense. And then my husband died. I'm like, you know, there's a lot going on between conscious and subconscious and following your dream that could probably take thousands of hours to unfold that here. But that is a nutshell. following 18:06 My dream wasn't always reflecting safety, that makes sense, but it was something so strong in my heart that I just had to. I get that feeling too of kind of associating your father's experience with like, oh, that could happen to me because like my mom died at 32. So my whole life, I thought 32 was my end. I mean, I knew people around me were much older. I can so relate. But I didn't plan for life after 32 because I just figured that's... 18:35 also my fate, I would never get on a motorcycle, I would never do all the things. She was just kind of finding herself. Like this was her period of like really being born as an adult. Like she was really finding herself. And so you just helped me unlock that piece of like I saw her living her best life and then it ended. And that's probably what I assumed for so long. So thank you for that. 19:00 You're very welcome and thank you. This is more like a therapy session here. We're both going to walk out like, whoa. Thank you. It's interesting because when you said that the 32, I remember when I turned 47, I had this wow moment. I made it. It was a really intense birthday for me because my husband was 45 when he passed and my dad was 46 when he passed. So when I turned 47, I felt like I made it. 19:29 It's so bizarre. And when I turned 50, everything inside of me was going like, oh, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this. And it was interesting because a couple of days prior, I unlocked what that was because I was entering a decade that they never made it to. And I literally felt that if I pass that line of turning 50, then there is a disconnection from them. And that took me a lot of time. 19:59 to actually unfold that because I could feel like moving up to my birth. And I'm like, what is going on? I never, I never worried about turning 30 and never worried about turning 40. I'm like, is that an age thing? Because now it's like the sort of midlife thing. And, I didn't feel any of that. And then I had it. I was like, Oh my God, it's because I'm entering a decade without them. So weird, know, but yeah, I don't know. I, I, that's what I love about these conversations because we're not the only people that have ever thought these things, but now we're kind of like, 20:29 taking the weirdness or the shame that some of us like feel. And so the more that we say the things out loud that may, we may have assumed were weird or it's like they're not, everyone's feeling these things. So thank you for that. I think it's important. So beautiful love story. You follow your dream, you find... 20:52 bliss, essentially, sounds like you find this relationship in which is kind of indescribable. It's like this home not in shining on right. It's like a hallmark movie, but like real life. So how does how does this unfold to bring you to this version? Because I mean, your life shift moment, we've kind of we talked about it. But what was the moment that really changed you? 21:13 So in my life shift moment, I'm going to take you to a day in 2018, June 2018, Rob had to fly to Perth, which is on the other side of Australia. It's like a three and a half hour flight away. We walked him to the station because we live like 200 meters from the train station and Rob would often catch the train to the airport because it's so much easier not to have to worry about city traffic, parking, et cetera. So we walked hand in hand, fling and jet on their bike, on their scooter, you know, walking back to the station and 21:42 It was such a bizarre moment because you know those moments where there's a notch, but you can't really, it's such a gentle notch. You don't want to pay attention to it and you're like weird. So a couple of weird things that happened that day. First of all, we were waiting for the train and I remember having this notch, take a photo of them. I'm like, I take a lot of photos. I didn't pay a lot of attention to it. just said, you know, took a couple of pictures and then the train came. 22:12 And I kissed Rob goodbye and I took a picture of the train leaving. And as I'm taking a picture of the train leaving, I'm like, what are you doing? You know, why are you doing this for? This is weird. And those pictures that I took that day of the boys with Rob and the train leaving was the exact pictures I used to tell the world about Rob's passing. So he flew to Perth and the next day he was working. 22:40 and we had a conversation over the phone that night. And he told me about this couple he met over dinner. They were lining up for dinner, they started to chat. And then when he came to getting a table, they were like, are you here alone? Do you want to sit with us? He no. He said, babe, I was so tired, but they were so persistent. They wanted me to sit with them. So I did. I said, you know, I told them about the love languages and about this and that. I think I've given them a lot for their young relationship. And 23:08 The guy was from the same little town in Treviso, near Treviso in Italy, where his dad is from. Rob's dad is from near Treviso in Italy and she was from Perth, Australia. And it was so beautiful because that was our final conversation and it was about love and connection. And the next day he was supposed to ring me and the phone didn't ring. And I kept calling all day. 23:32 and I was worried sick about him because my anxiety levels were rising and I'm like, what's going on? was something going on and I couldn't put my finger to it. I wasn't sure what was going on. But in your mind, you come up with all these excuses. Maybe he left the phone in a hotel, maybe he left it in the taxi like he did on our wedding night, he lost his phone in a taxi, all these things coming up and you find more more excuses. But you also feel that there's something not right. There are a whole lot more details to that day. 24:02 I eventually got the phone call at 4pm in the afternoon. This guy introduced himself as a sergeant from a coroner's office. And that was my biggest bilingual brain moment I ever had. Because growing up in Austria, my mother tongue is German. I had never heard the word coroner's before. So I'm still on the phone going like, yeah, you know, like completely oblivious to who he actually is. Cause coroner's didn't mean anything to me, but I learned quite fast. 24:31 And the next sentence that came was, I'm sorry to inform you that your husband deceased in a hotel room in Perth this morning. And that was my right underneath the feet moment. I did not see that coming. I did not see that coming. And when you turn back, you see a lot of things that happened like the nudge moments. But in that moment, it just 24:58 pulled the rock underneath my feet and I just slipped into this world of surreal where I felt like I had come to a standstill and everything around me continued spinning, know, that's the sort of moment. Yeah. Really, I'm sorry that you had to receive that call because I can't imagine what it's like to have essentially this dream life that you've created, that you were part of, that 25:28 you lived and breathe like in the most intentional ways, be like instantly taken from you. And I can see how that would for a lot of people and I don't know if it happened to you, but like destroy a human. Just like, I don't know, I feel like I could, I could be wrecked in that moment. Do you recall how you, cause you said it felt like very surreal. Do you recall how 25:56 you move through the world in the next couple minutes after that? It was very, very surreal. That's the only word I can use to describe that. I feel very lucky, actually. I've never thought about that. But just when you said that, I felt a massive amount of gratitude in my heart that I never felt destroyed. Never. Something really interesting happened. And it didn't come to me straight away, but 26:25 There is a moment that I really deeply want to share because it happened about three years prior to this moment. And Rob called me on the way home from work and he said, babe, I'm going to be two hours late. There was an accident on Heathcote Road. for those who don't know, Heathcote Road is like one really, really long road through the entire national park. And that was his way home from work. And if there is an accident, then the detour was like two hours, you know, and that's what happened that day. And we learned. 26:54 later on that a young dad has lost his life in a front-on collision with a truck. His daughter was only 16 months old. And because our boys were so little at the time, so they would have been five and seven, it really hit home for us. So it triggered us to have that conversation, the what if, what would you do if something was to happen to me? And this conversation 27:19 In a nutshell, was a long conversation, lots of tears, lots of love, lots of deep, deep connection. When we talked through this, the conversation ended in if something was to ever happen to me, I would want you to create the happiest life possible for you and the boys. And that's what love is, right? You just want the other person to be happy if you're there or not. It's it's you want love for that person, you want happiness for that person. And I remember how deeply I wanted that for Rob. 27:48 said if something was ever to happen to me, I said, I love you so much. I cannot imagine you being alone for the rest of your life. You're such a beautiful person. want, I would want you to find someone. I would want you to, I would want the boys to have a female influence in their life that who they can trust. But in a nutshell, it was theory, right? It's not that we didn't mean it, but you always think it doesn't happen to you until it does. So when I 28:17 walk through this most surreal moment in my entire life. 28:22 And I had the boys sitting in the living room. They were dressed in their martial arts uniform. They were ready for me to take them to have keto training. And they were on their iPads because that's what I did in that moment. was like, you know, I just have to make one more phone call. just, you know, I knew already something was not right, but I didn't want to worry them. So as you do, you know, they're sitting on their iPads waiting. And I walked downstairs and I looked at them and I said, can you put your iPads down? The way I said it. 28:51 There was no discussion. know, I kids always discuss one more round one of these. They just looked at me, put their iPads away. And I said, this is the hardest thing I'll ever have to tell you in my entire life. And your dad just died. It was literally, I can't remember the exact words that I used because it was a blurry to me, but it was, there is no sugar coating a message like your dad just died. You have to say it straight out, you know. 29:16 And what followed was, it was definitely the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my entire life. It really was just watching them fall apart and crying and screaming. And I hugged them, I held them, I cried with them and gave them all the time they needed. Did you feel like you had to be strong for them or anything? Or did you feel like you were allowed to feel all the things as well? 29:45 The strongest thing I remember from that moment, because a lot of that is really blurry, what I felt, what I thought, I know that what I heard in my head was Rob's voice saying, I want you to go the happiest life possible for the boys and you. That's what I heard our conversation from three years prior. And I was like, wow, okay. And then the question started from the boys and you know, I remember my... 30:14 my oldest son saying, who's going to look after us now, Mum? And I said, I will. I will look after you. I remember saying that twice because it was so important. I don't know if it was more important for him or me to hear me say that, but I think we all needed to hear it. And then my little one looked at me and that really broke me. I still remember that very vividly. said, I'm only eight and I'm not going to have a daddy anymore. You know, that. 30:42 That was really heartbreaking because they were both really, really close to Rob. They were both such daddy boys, you know, and yeah, hearing him say that was intense. But from that moment onwards, I knew that that was a promise I made Rob and that it was really important for all four of us to keep that promise to go forward and create the happiest life I possibly can. I had no freaking idea how to do that. 31:10 in that very moment. Absolutely just drawing blanks, but I knew this is where I'm going. It became my North Star in my darkest hour. Did you feel, this is just not an appropriate question, but did you feel a lot of pressure? Like there's a lot of crap going on right now. I'm really sad. There's a lot of, you know, like my life has just been shifted and now I have this responsibility to create the happiest of lives. And this is the hardest of times for me. 31:40 feel like that would be a lot of pressure. Did you feel any inkling of that? Like, damn it. That's really interesting. No, it's really interesting that you say that. felt a lot of guidance through that. Interesting. You're a better human than me. No, not at all. I just felt very... to be from the relationship that you created and this beauty. A lot of people ask me that and... 32:04 A lot of people say like, oh, you must have been asking yourself the question why all the time. And I never once asked myself why. But I remember a moment very vividly and it was only a few weeks after Rob died. And I was upstairs in our bedroom, the very same room where I received the phone call. And all of a sudden I had this what I now call a spiritual epiphany where I deeply felt Rob and I have chosen this. 32:35 on a soul level, this is what we have chosen. This is our soul contract. And that gave me so much. 32:45 purpose, I want to say, and acceptance and love. 32:53 to love a person so deeply, to choose that as your path together is incredible. And I'm saying that from both sides. Because I only ever looked at Rob thinking, oh my goodness, I cannot believe that you have chosen this for me to do what I do today. Until a friend of mine who's also deeply spiritual, she said to me, I think what you've chosen there is probably 33:22 I don't even want to say it. She said the harder part and I didn't want to own that at first. She said, you're the one who was, you know, staying here and looking after the boys. And I'm like, I never saw it as such. Yet there is a lot to that, you know, and I have, I certainly had my moments, don't get me wrong. I'm definitely far from superhuman, but mostly I saw it as a massive 33:49 privilege that I have been chosen to look after these boys and not as a burden or anything. There are moments where you go through where you feel like, know, God damn it, I just need somebody to share this with or I need somebody to help me through this or bounce this off with. I had one of those moments last night, believe it or not, where I really deeply felt the absence of him where I'm like, I have no idea how to get through this. 34:16 You know, there was something coming up between the boys that I didn't see coming that blindsided me. And I was left with such deep sadness about it. And then I woke up and was like, it wasn't as big as you felt it last night. You know what I mean? But yesterday it felt deep. It felt big. And I cried about it. And I felt this was a moment where I certainly would have loved to have Rob by my side to talk that through with. I sat with the idea. 34:44 I was like, who could I even talk to about this? I've got some friends that I trust deeply with things like that, but some of them are not parents and I didn't expect them to be able to understand that. the experience, this is gonna come from my own personal experience, but did the experience of like losing your father and not knowing what the heck to do grief wise and like, 35:11 how to move through it in a way that feels productive or helpful or beautiful or whatever word we want to assign with it. Did that experience of losing your father and what came after help you, hurt you? Like how did it impact the way that you grieved your husband? Massively. I would say it played a huge role. And again, you know, when you look back, all of a sudden you see all these milestones that brought you to the very moment that you're in. 35:41 People often say, you know, I wasn't prepared for that. I sometimes use that. But then when you look back and like, oh, God damn it, I was so prepared for that. These were all these moments that prepared me to deal with that right now. And my husband's passing was so, so different for me to deal with compared to my dad's passing. Because when my dad died, I was 20. He had cancer and 36:10 You sometimes say, oh, know, at least you had time to prepare for that. Not really, because he was cancer free for about a year. And then when he came back, it took him within a month. It was so aggressive. So it literally went from 12 of August to the 20th of September and he was gone. And I was like, wow, OK. So I didn't feel like, you saw it coming and you could have all these conversations, a life changing deep conversations. know, it's not like that. People always think it's like that, but it's very more often than not, it's it's not like that. 36:39 My thought is I was able to do all the things that you say that most people can't with a cancer diagnosis with my grandmother when I was in my 30s. And I think it's because I had the experience of a sudden loss first because I knew all the things I couldn't do. So that's why the question comes with question came from like how does one grief experience impact the other? Because for me, 37:09 There's a, I hate saying it, but like there's this weird silver lining of the horrible grief experience I had after my mom died because it gave me something so like indescribably beautiful for my grandmother's end. So I love this so much. I love this. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. I mean, it makes me wonder, does a sudden death impact you to deal with a 37:37 long term, longer term versus the other way, does a longer term prepare or do they not? I see what you mean because you had it the other way around. You had the sudden death first and then that so that certainly gave you the deal. I did not have that moment, unfortunately. So but again, you know, I call these a hidden gift and adversity. What what a gift that you have that with your grandmother. That's incredible. And no regrets. Yeah. And that's exactly it. 38:07 what my dad's passing taught me was to live my life with no regrets. That's the exact thing. And that to me felt like the biggest gift. I have often said this, you know, in hindsight, I feel that my dad's gave me the biggest gift in my relationship with my husband. So to me, that was always like that wedding gift that I got from my dad. You know, this is how 38:35 I lived my life in such a conscious and present way with my husband. And we certainly had moments where we weren't as present as we wanted to be. But the overall arting feel to our relationship was very present, very together, very connected. And we lived this beautiful life with each other, not next to each other. People always say, oh, yeah, but you know, everybody fights. I can't remember one single fight with Rob in 12 years. We had probably disagreements or 39:04 You know, things that we like, but yeah, but never, never a fight, never a yelling competition, never any, any of that. You know, I remember like two or three times where it just stormed out the house because I needed a moment of silence to collect myself. And then I came back and we hugged and everything was fine, you know, but there were two or three moments in like 12 years. So I didn't have that what a lot of people say. And I feel very blessed that we didn't have that. Did you have the experience or would you say that the love 39:33 the relationship, the type of bond that you had with your husband, would you say there were very few things left unsaid when he left? 100%. That's the exact thing what I meant before, know, the life with no regrets that we live that already I had said and done everything every single day that I wanted to say or do with Rob. And there are a lot of people who are left behind with this, I wish I had or wish I hadn't or 40:02 I should have said or should have done. I didn't have any of that. None. And yes, there's always you always wish for more time, no matter what, no matter how old people are, you always wish for more time. No questions asked. But the time that I did have with Rob, I have no regrets. I have no regrets. is a really beautiful space to be in. Yeah, it sounds like unreal and so beautiful, like in the sense of like how lucky 40:31 knowing full well that we all have the capacity to do that. But we don't. You know, there's so many of us that just leave the things unsaid and we wait for a trigger of some sort that brings us to be like, oh crap, I have to say everything now because the time is limited when really like, what if we were like you and Rob and like just saying it all the time? Like how fulfilled would we feel? 40:58 versus like keeping it inside. That's, mean, so part of me is like, it kind of makes, I understand the surreal part. There's definitely grief, there's definitely sadness, there's definitely missing him. But there's also, I can understand how there could be an opportunity for you to move forward and find the happy version of life after. Yeah, absolutely. I did. I felt very, very 41:27 guided and looked after from the get-go. And I can't even put this into words. There were so many little moments. And I'm not just talking about the feathers and dragonflies and butterflies and all that stuff. That happened as well. But there was a very bizarre way how I felt that Rob started communicating with me through numbers. And I know that sounds very airy-fairy. It's not even like that. For about five, six weeks after Rob died, I woke up at 41:57 1.26 a.m. every single morning, every morning. And I found it quite annoying because 1.26 a.m. is not a time where you want to be awake, especially when you are a sole parent and you're dealing with deep emotions and you need your sleep more than anything. And every single night, 1.26 a.m., it was never a minute before or after. like, what on earth is it with that number? Like at first you don't pay attention to it, but then when it's every night, you start going like, that's odd, you know? 42:23 So, and I've always been a numbers person. So that's probably why I believe he chose to communicate like that because I eventually put it on Facebook as you do. I'm like, does anybody know what these numbers mean? I've Googled it, you know, the angel numbers, one, two, six, whatever. It stands for big new beginning. I'm like, duh, my husband died. Yeah, but I didn't feel that was the answer. I'm like, there's something to that number. And then a friend from town reached out to me and she said, Marie, one, two, six, you see it? 42:52 And I'm like, no, what is it? Tell me. And she said, it's the 12th of June, 126, the 12th of June. It's the date of Rob died. And I'm like, oh my God, how could I have not seen it? And I know you in America, you turn it around, but here in Australia we don't. it's 126 is the 12th of June. That day, I just had to, I just couldn't believe that I didn't see it before. You know, and I went to bed and I woke up at 43:20 12 or 6 that night. And I looked at the alarm clock and I remember thinking, ha ha, very funny, I get it now. It was almost like, do you get it? It wasn't the 1, 2, 6, it was 12 or 6. I'm like, I get it now, thank you, very funny. And from that moment onwards, and it is still ongoing now, there is hardly a time where I don't see the number 1, 2, 6 somewhere. And I'm not just talking on the clock. We traveled around the world after Rob died for... 43:49 two months and we were in Vienna underground or airports, were places and there was always the number 126 written on a little door, a little, know, like everywhere, everywhere. And it's not such a common number, 126, you know, but it was everywhere. I just could not believe how often we saw it or the number 12, you know, 12 or six, but 126 was very often. We 44:15 stayed in the Maldives. That was our first stop when we traveled around the world. they drive you around in this little golf buggy, show you the island where everything is. And then we drove to our beautiful overwater bungalow that we stayed in. And then she stops in the front of our door and we all looked at each other and we just started laughing. It was the number 12 that we got, of course. It was like, of course, what else do we get? It was just ongoing. 44:43 all the time and it's still going now. So I'm like, yeah, I feel I'm always guided. get moments like that when I have to make decisions and it's always very, very clear. I questioned it a lot at first and now it's just such a normal thing. I'm like, yeah, thanks. Yeah, thanks. I get the number thing too. Awesome. I have something that I think, but I see the same number all the time. So I think it's somebody. think it's, I don't know, I'm not too woo woo in that way, but. 45:13 I recognize it. it's so normal now. no, I get it. I that. I think as part of a grief journey, think when people talk about grief... 45:25 the people I talk to talk about grief and they talk about it in a very like negative sense or like a very like this is a very dark, horrible period of time, which I think on the surface it is. Do you see it as such or do you see it as a different kind of transformative type journey? It feels like you would have a different definition of that. Yeah. 45:49 I look at grief very, very differently. First of all, I find it very, very sad that grief has become such a taboo topic, not become, always has been, sorry. It's always been such a taboo topic and I feel we need to talk about these things way more openly because when I started talking about my different experience and how I feel about it, it took a lot of courage to stand up for it because I knew that people looked at it differently. I knew that people would. 46:16 judge me for being too happy or whatever, but that was my promise to my husband. So stay out of it. You know, if you don't know anything about it, stay out of it. That was like, you know, that's how I felt. And I was quite clear mostly with my boundaries around that. That's also like, it is a bit of a plug, but I'm just going to say it here. That was also the reason why I did my TEDx talk and the TEDx talk is redefining our image of a widow because I just really wanted to talk about this. There are so many labels, you know. 46:45 So now you're a and I know I'm wearing black today and I hardly do, but I'm wearing black today because I'm going to a very, very traditional funeral literally after this. That's why I'm already dressed in black, but it is not my usual go-to. I love wearing colors. I'm very much known for wearing a lot of orange, like orange shoes and orange handbags and orange everything. I love colorful things. So I'm not your typical widow. When you look at me, I don't feel like a typical widow and I'm quite open to talk about that. For me. 47:14 Grief is not something that stays with you forever. Everyone in society around me has that very old fashioned belief in grief will stay with you forever. Grief lasts forever. Grief is love that has nowhere to go. All that stuff from like, I can't hear it anymore. I really, I don't agree with it. So the way that I look at grief and I really put that disclaimer out that this is my very personal 47:42 belief and you can take it or leave it. I would love for you to try it on and see how it fits you. I look at grief like a visitor. It's not a permanent resident in my house anymore. When grief came, she was here so often that she thought that she lived here and she acted like she lived here. We had such intimate moments that we were sitting in the bathtub together sobbing, you know, and she slept with me every single night. And there was a time where I thought, you know what? 48:13 you've overstayed your welcome, you need to go. And it was a sort of half conscious, subconscious decision. But there was this moment where I'm like, it's time for you to go. I made this promise and Joy, on the other hand, she's allowed to move in here permanently. So there was this transition where I bid her farewell and 48:37 She still comes every now and then she knocks on the door. And if I have time, I allow her in, sit with her. Sometimes we cry, sometimes we laugh, we share stories. And, you know, sometimes the three of us sit together, joy, grief and I. And it was literally that is the sort of perspective that I have on grief. Yeah, she comes and visits. Absolutely. She comes less and less often these days. You know, that's what happens when you don't really pay a lot of attention to a friend. And I'm quite okay with that. 49:07 because her and I are not that aligned anymore. We had a lot in common, but we've grown apart and that's okay. That's exactly how I look at it. She's like a friend that I've grown apart from. And when she comes in, I'm more than happy to share some stories with her and some memories with her, but that's it. She's not moving in here anymore. You know, I'm done with that. And I love that Joy lives here permanently and she's not always here. She sometimes goes to the markets and then I really miss her. 49:37 But that's the sort of thing, how I look at it and it suits me really well. And it's also something that I wanted to teach my boys. They were 10 and eight when they lost their dad. Do you think I want them to sit in grief forever? No. They sat with grief for a really, really long time. It was very intense for them, for both of them at very different levels, very different. They dealt with it so differently. And I could see that last night when we had this situation where 50:06 I literally had to say to them, you know what, one day you'll be your only family. I need you to sort this out now. You need to talk about this. This is ridiculous. I felt that it needed to be said and it's probably confronting and I'm not using things like that very often. I'm like, oh, one day I'm going to die. You know, but we do talk about death and the reality of it very openly. We don't talk about it every, every single day, but 50:34 I got the question straight forward from Flynn, my oldest son, when he was 11. So about nine months after his dad passed, said, what would happen to us if you die, 50:47 You know, you get those questions from kids. They're very straightforward, very, they don't shy away from the truth and from direct questions. And I loved it. I was so grateful he asked me that. Yeah. Well, they don't shy away if you keep the door open or you're willing to talk about it. think, you know, my experience, I love that you said that grief is not forever and you were kind of poo-pooing on some of the things that people say because... 51:15 I say that I had a terrible grief experience losing my mom because I stuffed it down for so long because no one was prepared to help me and I wasn't prepared to help me. I... Well, you don't know how to when Grief was in the hallway and like just stayed there. And in my thirties, I say, and people get mad at me that I say this, but I closed the door on grief. And so thinking of it as a person, because I was given the tools to really understand what I was holding onto. 51:43 And really what I was holding on to was that since my mom died, every decision that I had made since was out of this fear that someone else was also going to leave. like when she told, when my therapist kind of helped me uncover this, it was like one of those clouds part moment and you just like, first you grieve all the things you should have done. Exactly. But then you're also like, man. 52:09 had I known that, had I figured this out earlier, what would I have done? But after those moments and kind of unpacking and piecing together my life after that, I was like, yeah, like I'm not sad. And that's kind of what I equated grief with was like the sad depression because that's what I had experienced for so long, but I wasn't that way anymore. And it just gave me this gift that when my grandmother was diagnosed, my grandmother took over the mom role, basically, she became my best friend and we talked to her about everything. 52:39 She got sick and I was like, oh shit, what do I do? And so I just leaned in. I was like, this is all the time we have. So this is what we need to do. just gave me full goosebumps. It was so important. It was kind of like how you describe your relationship with your husband. was like, at the end, she wasn't super into sharing the hard thing. She was really into sharing love and that that part was big. But at the end, it was like two months before she died and it was right around her birthday. And I was like, I had this nudge in me. 53:07 And had I not experienced what I did after losing my mom, I wouldn't have done it. But I said, we're sitting down right now, just the two of us, and we're telling each other everything that we've ever wanted to say to each other. And when I left her apartment that night, I was this feeling of like, there's nothing left unsaid. So if and when she passes, I will be okay. I spent, you know, a couple months later, I spent the last five days of her life with her in the hospice room waiting for the last breath. 53:37 But like all of that was a beautiful, hard experience, but I wouldn't have had that or done that, I don't think, had I not had such a terrible grief journey for 20 years, know, 20 plus years. we look at these moments and we're just like, they suck, but also like, what have they taught us in a good way? They're hidden gifts. Yeah. It's, mean, I... 54:07 It's hard to hear your story. 54:12 And this is gonna sound so bad and feel sad because of the way that you talk about it. It's a very tragic and very sad experience when we say it, but the way that you describe it and how, lives on, even though Rob is not here, like what lives, it feels different to me. And I don't know if you feel that or you do that on purpose, but, or if other people say that to you, but. 54:41 Like your story, the way you say that you like live happiness, like you feel it, even the way you tell the hard parts. It's Rob's love legacy that we're living and it's also, it's our legacy, you know, and I love that we have created this. really see that way. We have created this from a soul level. have chosen that long before I understood that on a human level, you know. 55:08 But it was such a gift when I understood it. And at first, like I'm sitting here and talking about it completely normal now because it is normal to me now. But seven years ago when I had this epiphany, nothing was normal about it. There was just this, I was grateful for it. It was almost a bit daunting. I'm like, there's no way I could ever say that to anyone. They're going to think I'm completely nuts when I tell them, Robert and I have chosen this. You know, I was sharing that with you before we went live and I'm going to say it now. I recorded a summit. 55:36 where I shared that moment and I thought, oh, hold on, no, I can't share this moment without having the whole story and the whole, know, unpacking this. can't just say to somebody, you've chosen that on a spiritual level. And as I was recording this and I'm hearing myself saying it and this sounds wrong, this is too straightforward. I need people to understand the whole background. My whole screen went blank while I'm recording. I'm like, I was not supposed to say that way. It needs more preparation. 56:05 So those moments, know, the moments where I'm like, still looked after all the time. I feel so guided through that moment. Yeah. Those reminders are really pretty. Yeah. I don't know why I said pretty, but they're beautiful as well. They are. I'm sure you've done this and maybe you think it's a little silly, but do you ever think about what this version 2025 Marie would say to the Marie that hung up the phone but 56:32 to go talk to your kids? Like, is there anything that you would want to tell her about the journey that was coming next? Yeah, I probably would. I would want to say, you've got this. Literally that. You've got this. You'll be guided through this. You're not ever going to be alone through this. I got this message from Rob very, very clearly shortly after he died that he'll be there with me. He'll be literally opening all the doors for me. And I always felt he did. 57:01 I always felt that he was guiding us all the way. Even those moments where I felt so alone in parenting decisions or whatever, there were a couple of really, really big moments where I felt, damn, I wish Rob was here and I could talk to him about this. But I also know that he always was. And me coming to decision was him being there with me, guiding me, or even just when you don't want to see it from such a woo-woo perspective, the things that 57:28 Living my life with him have instilled in me the values that we shared, the connections that we formed are still here. You know, that's nothing that will ever go away. And that has guided me to become the best solo parent that I could be for our boys. took me a long time to own that. I constantly felt like I'm not a good provider. I'm not this, I'm not that. then I had this moment of 57:55 I'm a freaking great provider. know, it's just, I thought of it from a money perspective. And then I'm like, oh, well, there's so much more than money. There's, you know, emotions, there's love, there's guiding them to become who they are now. And I'm looking at them and thinking they are freaking amazing young adults. I'm so proud of them. And well, who raised them? Oh, hold on. That was me. You know, I own this now, but oh my God, I've made lots of mistakes as well. No questions asked. I, I feel I became. 58:25 a better parent when I stopped trying to be a perfectionist or the perfect parent. That's when I became a better parent because the expectation that you put on young boys when you constantly try to be perfect, oh my God, I don't want to live with that burden, you know, so. I mean, I think of your boys too right now and how blessed they are to have a parent that is guiding them through this and whatever 58:54 imperfect way that you want to do, you know, like that feels most heart centered and most aligned with the life that you created with your husband. I think they're just, I can't imagine the lasting impact and the ripple effect that that has, you know, like of what they've learned in this journey, watching you go through your own journey, but also guiding them through theirs, because it is tough. Eight years old, 10 years old, that's, I know firsthand what that's like. And so 59:23 not having someone that was able to guide me through, I know what that's like. And so I think of your boys and how lucky they are, whether they want to admit it or not at this stage in their life, how lucky they are. do, which is so beautiful. They really do. Yeah, it's amazing. If someone was listening to the story and something that you said resonated with them or they want to tell you part of their story because it just aligned or woke something up or gave them permission. 59:51 What's the best way to find you, connect with you, learn what you offer in the world? I think my website is definitely the best contact point. It's marialessi.com and you can find anything and everything I do. You know, I offer coaching and courses and there's a retreat coming up in Bali. I have to plug this here in March, 2026, which I'm really, really looking forward to. So there is a lot out there how you can connect with me or receive help or even just 01:00:20 get one of my books. There's a share my story in my books and I also share a very practical steps of moving through grief. In particular, and again, I know I'm plugging here shamelessly. My book, Happy Healing has got my seven steps from grief to relief that I personally used after Rob died, how to walk through that and how to come through on the other end. And there's a button where you can just connect with me personally, reach out, book a chat with me and share what you've got to share. 01:00:48 Maybe you want to speak on my podcast as well. I interview people about their life story about how they came through grief. So if you have a story where you came through grief, come and chat to me. I'd love to hear it. It's beautiful. Well, yeah, I want to thank you for being a part of my healing journey and allowing me to share parts of my story and hear your story. And I really do feel strongly that the more we hear other people's stories and share our own, the 01:01:16 better off we are like just as humans. So thank you for just coming on this ride and this journey with me. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I feel I was such a yeah, giving and receiving for both of us. Thank you. No problem. I'm just honored to hold this space. I do encourage anyone listening if if something that Marie said, resonate with you, please reach out to her. Another gift would be beautiful if if you know someone in your life that might need to hear this conversation, if you share this episode with them, that would just 01:01:46 I think that would be a wonderful gift for both of us. So thank you for listening. Thank you, Marie, for being a part of this journey. I really appreciate it. And I will be back next week with a brand new episode. Thanks again, Marie. Thank you. 01:02:10 For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com