How Kevin Palmieri Rebuilt His Life After Chasing the Wrong Dream

00:00 The voice in Kevin's head wasn't kind. It told him to stay where it was safe, that success was borrowed, and that walking away from it all, even for something he loved, would be the biggest mistake of his life. But what happens when the voice gets so loud, you can't hear anything else. In this episode, Kevin Palmieri talks about the moment the spiral hit its peak and how that breakdown became a doorway into something far more honest and far more his. For a long time, I borrowed his belief. 00:30 So he would lead and I would follow in his footsteps. Then I started doing things without him. I started going on podcasts without him and all that stuff. And then that's when it was like, oh my goodness, I can actually do this. I'm actually a capable human. It was weird. And that was like a really important up level for me. So for a long time, I borrowed belief and then eventually we took the training wheels off and now I understand how to build it. And I definitely have the most self belief I ever have. And I fail quote unquote, I make mistakes every day. 00:58 learn lessons every day, like it's really changed. 01:22 Welcome to LifeShift Podcast. am here with Kevin. Hello, Kevin. Hello, Matt. I almost called you Heather, so I don't know why, but I would respond to it. I'm low maintenance. It's all the same to me. Well, thank you for wanting to be a part of the LifeShift Podcast. I never could have predicted this podcasting journey for myself. It has been such a. It's been such an adventure that I. 01:43 never knew I needed. And I knew I wanted to kind of do it for the younger version of myself. And when I was eight, my mom was killed in a motorcycle accident. And at that moment in time, it felt like it was a line in the sand. Nothing was ever going to be the same for me. And the time period people weren't talking about, like grief, they weren't talking about like, how do you help an eight year old, everyone just wanted to see that I was going to be okay. So I assumed that that's what I needed to show people. But behind the scenes, I was like, oh, 02:13 I don't know how to do this. Do other people have dead moms? Like, how do I make it through this world? And so now I get to have these conversations with people around the world about these life shift moments, whether they're positive, traumatic, whatever they might be, in which in one moment, everything switched. And it's just been such an inspirational and also healing journey for myself. So. 02:36 Thank you for just being a part of my healing journey is what I'm saying, but also my podcast. Well, thank you for having me. I do not take the opportunity lightly. It's a privilege to be able to share a deep conversation with someone and I appreciate you being a safe place to do that. Well, I accept that. I'm going to say that. There we go. Maybe before we jump into your story, you can tell us 2025, who is Kevin? Like how do you show up in the world? How do you identify? Like what's the first thing that comes to your mind? I identify as a podcaster. 03:02 Really? Yeah, I have two global top 100 podcasts, one that has 2140 episodes and then one. Yeah, that's it. Just it's a light a light day's work. And then I have a podcast about podcasts that I think has 160 episodes. And it's just and this is like a dream come true for me. So that's why I identify with that the most. Yeah, that I mean, that's awesome. I wish I mean, someday I will. I'll be able to do that. I kind of put that out there in the world. But 03:32 It's so interesting how I think people that listen to podcasts don't realize how much work goes into a podcast. So I commend you for having two podcasts, one with over 2000 episodes. I is that a daily? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, Yeah, every day, every day. We didn't start that way. Again, we started with one and then it was two and then I ended up leaving my job and going full time and it was three. And eventually it just got to the place where if I'm going to talk about 04:00 the fact that we can get a little bit better every day. I better be there leading the charge to help you get a little bit better every day and that became it. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big ask for you as far as feeling like you have to get better every day. Do you as a human feel that you have to get better every day or do you give yourself grace when maybe one day is not quite better than the day before? I think it is a duality. So I want to get better every day. 04:29 and I must get better every day in order to accomplish the massive goals that I have set. And I also know now that if I only have 10 % to give and I give 10%, that is getting better. It used to be 100%, 100%, 100%. I understand that that's not necessarily sustainable and or healthy. We were talking in the preamble. I said, how are you really doing? And you said, how are you really doing? And I said, overwhelmed, my friend. Today's probably like 100 % day, I'm giving it everything I got. 04:59 Tomorrow might be 70 % but I'm gonna try to give everything I have for that day. I mean commendable I think that it's really important and I think it's probably something maybe is that something that you had to build over time that energy to To feel that way. Have you always been that way? Like what does that look that trajectory of like I have to be better every day Not have to be but I want to be better every day. Where does that come from? I Never had that before. I think in fitness. I've kind of had that 05:29 But fitness was like a silo. was not my typical life experience. I am not somebody who ever thought I'd be remotely successful. I never thought I would identify as smart. I never thought I'd be able to put together words in a good sentence. Even that good, powerful sentence, I guess. So it all became a part of the journey. And then when I felt like I tapped into purpose and really was like, I want to be the person I needed. 05:56 person that I needed would show up in this way, okay, how do I show up in that way? And then as I got more clear on the goals that I really wanted to accomplish, I realized that I was going to have to live my life a lot differently than I was. So most of it, like even the podcast, the reason we do an episode every day is because I want to be the best podcaster I can be. Then that's the best way to do it is just to do more shows than anybody else. 06:21 almost everything is reverse engineered on how do I become the best I can be at things that I actually think I can get really good at, right? I'm not changing oil and changing tire. Like don't think I could be the best in the world at that. I know there's other people that are way better that are just way more skilled than I am at that and that's where they are attracted anyway. So this is the silo that I wanna live in and it's all a byproduct of the goals, yeah. Yeah, no, I think it's a big switch too for a lot of people to 06:50 Because it's a mindset switch. But then it's also like there's action that has to be taken. Did you find that the action came more easily when you had wins like I'm someone like, it's almost like I need to tiptoe into something. And then if I see I can be remotely successful, or whatever success looks like in that way, then I'm like, okay, let me let me notch it up a little bit. Are you someone that does the same where you have to see success? Or you just like try, try, try, try, try, no matter if you fail or not. See success, but 07:21 In a weird way, it almost makes it worse when I do see success because it makes me question, how am I successful? We started podcasting in 2017. So different landscape a little bit in 2017. We had some pretty big interviews in 2018. And for some reason, the people that we had on said we were really good. And I remember thinking, one, you must say that to everybody. 07:51 or two, and this really messed with me. I know you think I'm good, but in the process of me doing the interview, I felt terrible the whole time. What supersedes what? Should I accept the compliment and think I'm good? I didn't feel good, so there's something to that. So that's always been something I've worked through since the beginning of this. And it sounds like maybe that also stems from growing up. 08:19 there were probably elements of that where, where it's like, it almost sounds a little bit like the or a lot like self doubt in some ways that like creeps in. But you also have this power, this other power where where you can believe it too, at the same time. Yeah, dichotomy of that. Yeah, yeah, I don't know how you picked it up from that. But yes, yeah, that is 1000 % accurate. Yeah, I was an all star baseball player. My mom made me play didn't want to play I want to play soccer. 08:48 I was better at soccer than it was a baseball. And I from the time I picked up a ball and a bat, I made the all star team every year. I was in the newspaper. I was always one of the best hitters. I got scouted by travel teams. Matt, I just thought I got luckier more often than other people. That was it. It was, I didn't want to be up as the person who is putting the game on the line. I don't pick me pick someone else. I just always thought I got lucky. So I never self assigned. 09:17 any skills to myself. yeah, that perpetuated for most of my life. Yeah. Yeah. And by doing it for your mom, was that always for your mom? Or did it at some point you were kind of just that was what you were doing? Because I can relate. I mean, all the decisions I made until I was like 30 something was to impress my dad. Not that he wanted me to do that. But yeah, I think once I started, I enjoyed it. 09:43 I think that's, and I'm still that to this day. My wife introduced me to Indian food and I was like, I hate Indian food. I'm not gonna like that. I love it. It's my favorite food. So sometimes I think I need a gentle kick into something that I will enjoy. I just don't know I will yet. Yeah. Well, that's interesting. Thanks to mom. Maybe you can kind of start painting the picture of your life leading up to this life shift moment, because I think a lot of like we're, hinting around some of the things that maybe have formed how you get got to where you are now, but what made that shift? So I was raised by my mom, my grandmother. 10:13 I didn't know my dad. didn't meet my dad with the understanding that he was my dad until I was 27. I think that's where the lack comes from. think internally, I assumed if I was better, if I was smarter, my dad was stuck around. I was an infant. So I don't really have much control over that. But I think I probably internalize that. I know we were lower middle class, we didn't have a lot of money. I remember hearing stories about how we were going to try to figure out how to pay rent. 10:43 So that's ingrained in me just as a human. Outside of that though, everything was quote unquote normal. Nothing really massive or life altering happened in my childhood outside of that. Yeah, I mean, that's pretty big, especially as an infant. I think you absorbed some of that. I think I probably absorbed and sheltered myself from feeling it for a long time. 11:10 And even that, like I'm very dismissive of it to this day. I don't know if I'm in my fully healed. I don't know. I think it just became so normal to me that I just kinda, I kinda got used to it. I remember for some reason in elementary school or middle school, first day of school, you go around the class and you say, hi, I'm Kevin. And this is what my mom does for a living. And this is what my dad does for a living. And I remember saying, my mom's in healthcare. 11:40 And then I just made up my dad was in construction. It just made sense. Like that's probably what he does. So that's what I'm going to go with. But I remember I always felt like kind of a charity case where all of my friends' families would try to bring me in for dinners and sleepovers and camping trips. And at the time it was awesome. But then in reflection, it's like, oh, you thought I was going to go down a really bad path and you were trying to save me. 12:09 In retrospect, that's a whole weird thing I've been working through. Still to this day. In those situations when you were kind of bonding with your friends, families, did you connect with their fathers at all? Or did you feel like a strong connection to them? I wanted to so badly. Yeah, I wanted to. And I wanted to make them proud and I wanted to be a good. I had a friend who went down a rough road. 12:39 when we were in our later teens. And his dad, we were out on the porch one time and his dad was, he was drinking. And he said, know, Kev, I wish you were my son. And there was a little piece of me that was like, I wish that too. I wish that too. And I mean, the whole situation is just toxic, right? So, but I longed for that. Yeah, I longed to this day, Matt, I still struggle with men. To this day, I want to impress men. 13:09 I do so well with women, it's so easy for me to talk to women. Men is a struggle to this day. It makes total sense. And the reason I asked you that question is whether or not you kind of gravitated towards them is I did the same thing after my mom died. felt, one, I relate to you in the sense of like, it was very clear that the other families were trying to bring me into the fold because one, they realized my father was a single father that like, he didn't have main custody of me before. 13:38 my mom died, so now he's like thrust upon this situation. And so they would bring me in and but during all of those things, which I loved, I got really close with a lot of the moms. And I so I was curious if that's something on me or is that just something with those of us that don't have, do we seek that out? And it sounds like maybe we do. Yeah, I would say that's that's pretty accurate. Yeah. And again, I never knew that at the time. Right. So much of this is retrospective. Looking back at the time, it's just like this is this is what it is. 14:07 That was kind of an inflection point in retrospect when I look back. The other thing that happened pretty early for me was I knew I didn't want to go to college. It just it didn't make sense. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And the last thing I wanted to do is pay a of money for people to help me figure it out. It just I think I knew that most people were going because they were being forced to. Right. And my mom never forced me to do anything. She said, I just want you be happy. Do whatever you want. Cool. I don't want to go to college. So didn't go to college. 14:37 Right? And I got a job at a gas station. That was my first job. And you'll see this is kind of where the pattern of not enough, not smart enough, not going to be successful started to form for me. So I worked at a gas station and I remember a lot of people would like come back on summer break from college. And I was like, I used to have a crush on that girl. Or these are kids that I used to hang out with in high school and now I'm just 15:05 I feel like I'm gonna be the townie. I'm gonna be the guy who stays back in the town and never equates to anything. So that starts that. After that, I left that job and I went and worked at a hospital cleaning floors and bathrooms overnight, third shift. Same kind of idea. There was this beautiful nurse on the second floor. And one of my coworkers said, hey, you know that nurse on the second floor? She likes you, you gotta go talk to her. And I said, brother, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? 15:34 No, she doesn't. Why are you lying to me? He said, No, no, she does. I could not fathom in my mind that she would want to be with someone like me. I couldn't. It couldn't work. I couldn't imagine because of your status or position in in work status position in work. She was like six feet tall. I'm like five foot five on a good day. It just there is seemed like too many obstacles in the way. And I did find out I mean, we hung out a few times and I did find out that she was interested. 16:04 Okay, what does that mean? So that was a piece, left that job. And I was a personal trainer for like eight months. He did that. It was just sales position, sell this person and make them feel bad. It made me absolutely loathe sales to the point where I signed a contract that said I was going to be there for a year. If I leave before a year, I have to pay them $1,000. I said cash check. How do you want it? I'm out. I don't you can have the money. I don't care. So that was that job. 16:34 Then I was a forklift operator, truck driver, on call firefighter, did tiling, construction, many different things. I was in my early 20s at this point, believe it or not, I did a lot of stuff very quickly. And I felt like, oh my goodness, me not going to college was the worst sad decision I could have ever possibly made. I am screwed. I'm screwed. So I went to this job fair. Because it's too late when you're in your early 20s to go back to college. 17:03 Yeah, feels like this is the end of the world. Right. And I just didn't, I did not identify as somebody who was intellectual. I couldn't imagine going back to school. couldn't. Did anyone ever tell you growing up that you weren't smart? Or you weren't like, did that come from any external parts? I don't. I don't think I wanted to be. I have this weird thing about I kind of enjoy being an underdog. So I think I wanted people to think I was going to fail for some 17:33 I get significance from that. It makes sense because then if you do succeed, then everyone's like, damn. Right. Yeah. And that would feel good. That would be a dopamine hit in the moment until it wasn't. Yeah. For me, at least. And I think that's a very similar experience to me. Yeah. I would say that's very similar. Yeah. So when you were jumping these jobs, you weren't necessarily like, oh, I want to do that. You're like, oh, let me just try something else. Let me try something new. 18:02 That was a piece of it, but it was also, I want to do something I like. So you were looking for that. It's got to be something I actually like. And I thought I was going to love being a personal trainer. I thought that was going to be the best job ever. It was way worse than I thought. It was absolutely terrible. I driving a truck and operating a forklift were amazing. It was so much fun until they're like, no, you have to work 12 hours a day and then 12 hours on Saturday. So I want to have a life too. Nope, you can't. OK, that's not it. 18:31 So eventually, eventually I do this job fair. And again, you're gonna see the pattern. I learned a new skill, it was called weatherization. So weatherization is an industry where people come into your home or your business and they make your house or your buildings more energy efficient. So I did this class, I graduate from this little class and on my exit interview, they said, you have a great personality, we're gonna connect you with the best company here. 18:58 I said, Well, you probably say that to everybody. But thank you so much. I appreciate that. Thank you. D value, right? D value. You're gonna make anywhere from 60 to $120 an hour. The only downside we have to tell you about though, is there's a little bit of travel involved. And I was like, this is not real. This there's no, I just came to a class for free. I learned a new skill over the next the last two days. And now you're telling me I'm going to make 60 to $120 an hour. This is not real. There's no way. Here's here's the business card. 19:27 you can call them, set up an interview. It's real, give it a shot. Okay, whatever. So I call my potential boss, I go in for an interview. And he said, you got a great personality. feel like you're super positive. You're gonna fit in really well here. We don't have another job starting for a couple months, but we'll call you when it happens. Okay, interesting. I still don't believe it, but okay. Get a call a couple months later, Matt. Okay, interesting. We're good to go, Kev. At the time I lived in 19:56 Massachusetts. The first job is in Wilmington, Delaware. So that travel thing they were talking about, that was legit, that was real. So I drive to our office, and I get into a white Subaru Outback with a gentleman I've met one time before. We drive 12 hours to Wilmington, Delaware. I move into a house that's rented from the company that's got like five other people in I've never met. 20:23 wake up the next day and then I go do a job I had never technically done before. And that was my trial by fire into this. Got to the end of that first week, got my first check, I had made 50 bucks an hour for 40 hours and I had never seen anything like that in my life. And I was like, holy crap, I'm hooked. I'm in. I'm in. That became the next leg of the journey where I was like, oh, I'm gonna be successful now. I did it. I somehow, and... 20:51 The first week I went down to Delaware, I literally did not have enough money to get food. I got deli meat, bread, and chips. And that's what I ate every day, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It was brutal. But I was like, oh, here we go, I did it. I did it. And money is a sign of success at this point in It is everything. Especially growing up the way you did. 100%. It is everything. I like taking care of people. 21:17 I love being able to take care of people. My mom was always super generous, even though we didn't have a lot of money, probably to a detriment, honestly, which I adopted to a degree. But it for me, it's not well, as long as you get the money, right? If you don't have the money, it can be it can be dangerous. That was the next leg for me. The next leg of the journey was now I'm going to be successful. So I don't really have to worry about anything. I just have to work really hard, be very consistent, show up and I'm going to be fine. 21:45 So when things really started to pivot, a couple of years later, I think I was like 25, my girlfriend is a model, I have this job, I'm getting ready to compete in a bodybuilding show, so I'm quite literally in the best shape I will ever be in. Nice car, great apartment, good friends, all the stuff. Checked all the boxes. Every single one, and like to the max. I mean, I'm in magazine shape, like this is good, this is great. She leaves me. 22:14 And when she left, she said, I was gonna leave you like a month ago during your bodybuilding prep, but I was afraid if I did, you might kill yourself. And I remember thinking, how the heck did we get here? How did I miss this? How did I miss this? So she left and I convinced myself the only way to make all these problems go away was to make more money. And I got a... 22:43 promotion at my job, cool. It was the busiest year we ever had, cool. So then I spent the next 10 months living on the road every single week, just driving eight hours to a job site, working eight hours, sleeping four hours. It just was mayhem. Right, and it brought a lot of happiness, right? Because of the money, right? I didn't care about relationships. I didn't care about my friendship. Send me as far away as you want. I don't care, I'm in. And it wasn't, I mean, I was being... 23:12 sarcastic there. But was there happiness because you were making a lot of money? Okay. Yeah, yeah, it was it was delusional happiness. But I was I loved the grind. I loved it. And you felt like you I'll show you kind of like I'm successful. This is how I get through it. It was more. I always said if the opportunity was presented to me, I would do it. I feel like the opportunity is presented and 23:38 I have grit. always had grit. I'll outwork someone if it's going to make me more successful. I'm all for that. That was rewarded. So yeah, I'm in. I'm in. And when, when your ex-girlfriend said that, was there, was that like a flippant comment or is that something that maybe was like a hidden thing that, was showing itself in different ways? I know body building prep can be a total nightmare for a lot of people, but 24:06 Do think that was a warranted response? Yeah. OK. Yeah. And it was from a place of love. wasn't a it wasn't a negative. OK. Like toxic thing. Yeah. No, it was very much like, I'm worried about you. And you did you did you acknowledge that in that in that period of time or did you kind of just push it down and keep going? No, I started going to therapy and then work up busy and I stopped going to therapy because I can't do therapy on the road. So I got to go make money. That was. 24:34 Yeah, therapy works so well, I stop going, is what I always say, right? And I think that's a common joke for anybody who's done therapy. Yeah. No, unfortunately. It's hard. And then you chase the money, because it's nice. It's nice to have that money. And if you didn't have it growing up, it's a level of like, hey, I have this money. Like, I made it. I am successful. For me, it was an unfathomable experience. was... I remember going... 25:02 So we wouldn't know how much we were making until like the day before because different districts pay differently because it's all through the state of the government. And I remember I went to a job site one time and I saw what it was. It was one hundred and twenty bucks an hour. I was like, I this is so crazy to me. I'm going to make a thousand dollars today. Like, I can't even fathom that. And I remember it just gave me like I was looking for an apartment. It's like, obviously, I'm going to get it. 25:31 Of course, I'm gonna get I have perfect credit and I make $100,000. It's gonna be fine. It gave me so much certainty when I just had so little in myself. Yeah. So much. And we attach ourselves to those things that we didn't have that when we start to get them, we equate that with happiness or success or whatever it is. And for me, in those instances, it's like it's in the moment that it works really well. But then it's not enough. It's like, then what is the next checkmark that I need to get for me? 26:01 like you said earlier, was very much like I had society's checklist in mind of like I had to do well in high school so that I could go to college and then go to college and I go to good grad school and then I got to get a good, you know, like it was just, and every time I hit the mark, I'd be like, this is great, but I'm not happy or I'm not there yet. Like what's next? And so I could see how that chase could be alluring. Super, super. And fulfilling. I mean, we can't discount that the fact that like having money, 26:30 can be fulfilling for someone that hasn't had money growing up. Yeah, I was convinced that this was never. We used to joke. And again, not a great joke in retrospect, but we used to joke that if I ever lost the job, we would say this like my coworkers, if I ever lost this job, I would kill myself. I'm never going to get an opportunity like that. That was the running, not so positive joke that we all had. Because we knew how lucky we were, how privileged we were to have this opportunity. We were just over the moon. 27:00 Did you like the job? Or did you like the money? I liked the job until I stopped liking the money. Yeah, I liked the job until I stopped liking the money. And then I realized like, so that year was the craziest year ever. And I spent 10 months living on the road every single week, five days a week, it was brutal. But I liked it because I was moving towards a goal. Right. And you were successful on paper. I was very successful on paper. Yeah. And I got a lot of significance from that. Yeah. 27:30 And other people saw it. Yep. And I liked that. was like, hmm. The underdog is succeeding. You didn't think I was going to be anything. Right. I didn't go to college. nobody ever told me I was not going to be anything. That's the thing that's wonky. It was me who didn't believe in myself. I had a lot of people who believed in me, which I'm grateful for. just, I didn't believe in me. Well, I think it's also a little bit of that deep seated, like your father left. And I think we just, we take that on. We feel like, oh well. 28:00 Why did he leave? Is it my fault? And it's like, no, but here we are carrying that baggage for a long time. Yeah. And I think I assume that if I just got all the things that I didn't have when I was young, naturally, like it should iron, everything should kind of iron itself out, right? Like we'll be good when we do that. Fill that empty hole. 28:23 filled an empty hole. And that was the goal. That was the goal. And I determined, I think as many people do, that the empty hole needs to be filled with six figures worth of income. As long as you hit six figures, that's the goal, hit six figures. That's what they say. That's what they say. So I did it at 26. I made $100,000. And I remember I opened my final pay stub of the year and looked at it. And I remember thinking financially and externally, things are better. 28:51 But internally, I do not feel any different. And I feel like I just unconsciously went through an entire year searching for keys that were not going to fix the door that I thought they were going to Thought to myself, the opposite of unconscious is hyper conscious. So I did what any 27 year old man would do. I started a podcast called the hyper conscious podcast. 29:16 That was a very pivotal moment for me because I stopped caring about my job. Quite literally, when I get to the point where I realize something is not helping me with the goal, I'm done. I'm not very attached to it. It can go. I'm okay with it. I start a podcast. I fell in love with podcasting. I fell out of love with my job. I don't want to travel. I want to spend time with my friends. I want to sleep in my own bed. That would be nice. I don't want to live out of a suitcase. I don't want to live out of a van. I don't want to do that anymore. 29:47 So I start calling out of work, leaving the job sites early, showing up late, the opposite of what I was before. And I would get homesick when I was packing my bag and I just, it was just bad. And you know what's interesting, Matt? I was, so my wife came home the other day and I was out on the porch and she said, what are you doing? And I said, I'm looking at old emails from my old company. And she said, what, do why? And I said, I don't know, I need the nostalgia. 30:16 I need the perspective. need to know who I was at that point. It's so easy to tell the story, but I want to go back and figure out who I was. The pivotal moment for me. I woke up in a hotel room in New Jersey, which is like six hours away from where I lived. was getting ready for work that morning. This was totally normal. Alarm clock went off. I sat up. I slid to the edge of the bed. And the best way to explain it is there was 10 televisions on in my head at the same time, and every single one is on a different station. 30:46 Very familiar. One, you're stuck here forever. Kev, you got so lucky, dude. What are you even thinking about? There's no way you could ever leave this job. If you ever left, what would your friends say? If you ever left, what would your family say? You make more money, you're more successful than anybody in your family, you've done your family proud, don't screw this up. And then what are you gonna do? You're gonna be a podcaster. That's what you're gonna do. You're gonna leave this behind and be a podcaster. 31:15 And it was in that moment where I thought to myself, if I was just to take my life, I would take all my problems with me and I wouldn't have to worry about any of this. And that is the pivotal moment for me that shifted everything. in retrospect, there was a history of mental health in my family. I had somebody very close to me attempt to commit suicide when I was young and one of my uncles successfully committed suicide. So it all started to... 31:44 kind of paint a picture for me of okay, interesting. This is this is not good. This is not all right. This is not normal. This is not the direction I want to move in. So I reached out to a friend who's now my business partner. And I explained to him what was going on. And he said, Kev, he said many things, but Kev over the last couple years, your awareness, hyper conscious means to be acutely aware. Your awareness has changed a ton, but your environments have remained the same. 32:13 think it's time for you to change your environment. And that was like the I don't know, it worked. Like it just gave me so much hope. It was like, wait, what? There is potentially something after this. Interesting. Were you telling people how you were feeling about all these things? Are you keeping stuff inside? Like, what was that? What was that? Because it sounds like everything was very noisy for a while. And you just wanted to silence the noise and 32:43 one way is the way you were thinking about not necessarily trying to take action on, but you just wanted to shut up. You just like, noise go away. Yeah. A lot of people can relate to that. 100%. 100%. I had actually done podcast episodes about how miserable I was. Okay. Yeah. One of them was called episode seven was chase your effing dreams. And I went into my entire thing was like, I hate my job. And one day, if I could be a professional podcaster, and I could be my own boss, that would be the dream. 33:12 So Alan, the person I messaged, he was my first guest on the podcast. So him and I had a really good, I mean, he was my mentor. He's been my mentor since him and I reconnected in my 20s. So he knew what I was going through because him and I had been talking about it. And we had such a vulnerable relationship where we talked about what was real, we were really authentic and genuine and vulnerable with one another. 33:40 He grew up without a dad, I grew up without a dad. We would spend Father's Day together. It's the community. So it was, he knew, I knew he would have an answer. So I reached out to him and yeah, he gave me some really good perspective and no judgment, just support, just a shoulder. And that was kind of the next interesting. So there could be something beyond this. Maybe I can't see it yet, but maybe it's not as dark as I think it is. Yeah, but he also, it sounds like he also acknowledged you. 34:08 which I think is sometimes really helpful to be validated in the way that we're feeling or whatever we're going through. Because sometimes, I don't know, if you don't have that trust in someone and you bring it up, it's like a fix. There's like a, you have all this money. You have a great job. Why are you even thinking that way? But no, it's like, but no, that's not what I want. That's not where my heart is bringing me and all these things. And so having someone 34:38 I mean, it struck me that that you found someone that has similar or could understand what it's like to not grow up with a father. I think there's something so important about community of people that can empathize with you in the way that you feel and and maybe validate that you're not weird for thinking certain things. And so having someone like Alan in your life that you could you could be open enough to say like, is this is a low point for me, dude. And he's like, I hear that. 35:08 And also, here's a step or an idea. Yeah, even a shoulder. Sometimes it's just a shoulder. That's really all I, I just think I wanted somebody to know and I wanted somebody to care. Yeah. Right. And not care so much that you're making money, which is what you originally wanted people to care about. Yes. Well, so here's the thing. He had had a similar journey a couple of years prior where he was making way more money than I was. And he was just unbelievably successful and he got in a really bad car accident. 35:37 and that made him contemplate everything. And then he quit his job and went all in on self-improvement and was trying to make a company out of it. I was like, whoa. So there was somewhat like the proof of concept that he's already kind of done this. If I'm gonna learn from someone, I wanna learn from somebody who's already walked the steps. It just, yeah, it just kinda made sense. So I ended up leaving my job three or four months later, which was reckless in retrospect. But. 36:04 I left my job. mean, for your sanity and for your heart and all those things was it? Yeah, I don't. I think I probably could have been more constructive with like, okay, there is an end date now. This isn't forever. Let's stack some money. You're a human. It might have helped. I know. Yeah, I'm human for sure. But I know it might sound cool to quit your job. I'm not saying just I've done job. But you've done it. Okay, well, you and I are in the same boat for sure. And everyone was like, how much money do you have? I'm like, 36:31 Whose business is that besides my own? Leave me alone. For me, it was the credit card companies because they when you start paying them back, come out. These are just friends. They were like, how many months can you live without a job? And I was like, your own business. I respect it. I respect it. Well, yeah, that was that was it. That was the journey. And then then him and I partnered up in 2018. And it was like, all right, let's let's see what we can do here. Would you say that at that having that conversation and then also aligning with like his journey was like maybe a few steps? 37:00 ahead of you, like showing that he could like lean into what he wanted to do and make things happen for himself. Would you say that that's kind of where you started this every day can be a little bit better or I can be a little bit better. I can make things better. Would you say that that's kind of the turning point? Yeah, I adopted that from him. Yeah, he's it's because of the proof of concept, really. It's because of the proof of concept. And I always knew he was different. 37:28 And I don't know how to explain it. If you said like, tell me I can't know how I don't I don't know. Just anything is possible for him. If he says he's going to do it, he always does it. And it I've never seen anything like it in my life. And even back then, it was like, I could just tell he's just different. He's operating in a different place. And, and nobody believes him. A of people give him crap. And they were making fun of him. It's like, I don't know, I think you're onto something, man. So I 37:58 maybe delusionally put hope and just energy into his guidance and said, Yeah, let's see. Let's see what happens. I think that was a big piece of it. Would you say that any of that was a trust in yourself at all? I mean, you say it's delusional, but at the same time, like there's, it almost sounds like there has to be a little seedling of maybe trust that you could do it. I trust that I can. I have a really strange appreciation for people that are really good at suffering. 38:29 When I was young, I used to watch professional wrestling. And my favorite wrestler was his name, he goes by Mankind. The reason I liked him, he was not the most athletic. He was the guy who could take the biggest beating and he would do stuff that was so self-destructive that I was like, that if I was a wrestler, that's the type of wrestler I would be. I would do the same thing. I've always... 38:55 This journey has been brutal and it has been it has taken pieces of me I will never get back. I don't think I would go back and change it though. Because I mean, I think they form a different version of you like in a good way. They can right? Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know where that where does that mindset of I'll just suffer. I knew Alan was going to be successful. And I knew if I could last I would be successful. And success would be different. It wouldn't be what I thought it's gonna it's gonna be different. 39:24 I just have to survive when a lot of other people just left. If I could just survive, I think I'll be OK. And that's really been the journey is just like. Survive, get better, add value, stay humble, survive, get better, just keep doing that. And weird things have started to happen. Right. And it snowballs, I'm assuming, in a good way. But do you still carry a lot of that self-doubt that you carried before? 39:54 I'm way more in control of it than I used to be but I have times where I'll be getting ready to do something and it's like this is a very high potentiality that this goes horribly wrong because you don't know what you're doing that happens less often now, but probably more often than Somebody would guess But also if it goes horribly wrong, is it horribly wrong? Not anymore Not anymore because it's fixable very little in life is unfixable 40:24 And again, I'm giving a speech. This isn't life or death here. You know, it feels like it in the moment. But yeah, but I think it's very relatable. I think that so many of us carry that. I think for me, a lot of a lot of like my grief journey and the decisions that I've made and all these things come from losing my mom so young and not having the tools. So I just assumed all these really negative habits. 40:50 but also to like what you were saying before, this like suffering piece brings us to places that we probably wouldn't have been had we not attached ourself to the constant sufferer of some sort. But for me now, it's like a lot of these things that scare me, they're much scarier in my head. And then when I put them on paper, when I say them out loud, when I do it on a podcast and tell someone my most vulnerable piece, for some reason it's more palatable. It's something that's like, 41:21 that we can attack. you know, I think I say all that because so many of us have this like, oh, that can go horribly wrong. I just shouldn't do it. But what is horribly wrong? Unless it's gonna hurt us or someone else, maybe we should do it anyway. I agree. I agree a thousand percent because I have had it go quote unquote, horribly wrong. It was always fine. It's just not in the moment. Not when it's happening. 41:46 But even then it's like you can laugh. So the first speech I ever gave I did really well. I prepped for a very long time. Second speech, I got a little arrogant. I went in with three flashcards. I'm the man, that's gonna be fine. It was not fine, it was terrible. Alan and I went and we watched the replay of it and we had McDonald's. And we laughed about it because it was, I got arrogant. And I got humbled very quickly and that was an important lesson. 42:15 That piece is important that like, if you can have the awareness enough to look back on those and learn from them. I don't think we're all equipped with that. At least not, I wasn't for a while. Like I think there were a lot of things in which like, for example, growing up having a dead mom, it was very much if something good happened to me, it was because my mom was dead. If something bad happened to me. 42:41 it was because I had a dead mom. It was never anything that I controlled in my brain and the way I explained things. And then starting like my 30s or so, which sounds really long, I mean really late, but starting then it was like, okay, no, like these were all my decisions. These were all things that I did. These were not because I have a dead mom. you know, and so I think it took me a little while. And what I'm saying is I don't think a lot of people or enough people have that full awareness of like, okay. 43:10 I can change this. I made these decisions. They're terrible. I shouldn't do it again. I think it takes a certain level of self belief. The ability to know trust, trust, trust and I don't know. I think that's probably one of the biggest lessons that we've learned is it's very hard to do different if you don't believe you can. And it sounds so simple. It's like, yeah, of course, Kev. But I think that's like the root of so much struggle is 43:40 We pretend like like I pretended that I was super confident. I didn't want you to know Matt that I wasn't. It's my job to keep you at bay. Oh, he's a bodybuilder, blah, blah. It's like, no, I needed somebody to know that I don't have real self-belief in the real world when it comes to replicating outcomes. And it's just it's obvious to me now that that was one of the things that because then you state that you're going to do it. You prove that you can do it and then you self-assign. Oh, I did that. 44:09 I didn't have that. I just felt like I got lucky in everything. Yeah. Do you think that having that trust and relationship built with Alan allowed you to assume some of that self-belief to know that you could take some of those steps? Because you saw that he was doing it and you trusted him and he believed in you. It took a long time. For a long time, I borrowed his belief. So he would lead and I would follow in his footsteps. 44:37 Then I started doing things without him. I started going on podcasts without him and all that stuff. And then that's when it was like, oh my goodness, I can actually do this. I'm like capable. I'm actually a capable human. It was weird. And that was like a really important up level for me. for a long time I borrowed belief and then eventually we took the training wheels off and now I understand how to build it. And I definitely have the most self belief I ever have. And I fail quote unquote, I make mistakes every day. 45:08 learn lessons every day. it's really changed. But yeah, for the vast majority, I was borrowing belief until I knew how to build on my own. Do you remember when you had that first feeling of like, oh, I can do this? I went on a podcast as a guest. And I remember I messaged Alan after and I said, dude, it is like night and day when I'm without you. It is like night and day. I just crushed that. It was awesome. 45:37 I felt so good about myself. need to sail away a little bit so I can build up my own muscle. So yeah, I went on a podcast that went well and I messaged him after and said, dude, something happened. Something's different. Yeah. Isn't it weird that sometimes we can do things that we've done so many times before, but like that one time you're like, it clicked. Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize that I'm like good at this and like, I have my shit together and I can like function as a full human and I don't need someone's approval. 46:06 Do you feel that you need someone's approval? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I again, I'm a business owner, but I have a business partner. We kind of need each other's approval. We have instructions of if I'm ever toxic, if I'm ever arrogant, like I need you to tell me. So in a way, right, I think it's constructive. We had a really challenging conversation the other day. I brought something up and said, dude, no, can't that's not gonna fly. We're not doing that. 46:35 It's great, it's great conversation. So not from a you can't fly, I'm gonna cut your wings. No, you be as big as you want. And we gotta make sure we're being healthy while we're being big. Yeah, I guess that question comes from maybe you weren't directly seeking approval growing up and trying to get this, the relationships with your friends, parents and the money and all these other, the girl that worked on the second floor, like all these things, it was like. 47:04 kind of need this approval, but I don't know how to get it. And now I was kind of thinking that maybe you don't, it's not as much external as it is like your own self belief and self like approval. I would say you're accurate. Yeah. I would say outside of like my wife and my business partner, I, I don't really care. Like I don't, I, I love what I do. This is like my dream come true outside of that. Yeah. You don't feel like you need to prove yourself to anyone? No, no. 47:34 That's probably a relief in some way. I can't imagine how overwhelmed you'd be right now if you still had that. I'd be more overwhelmed than I am. I it's hard because I'm quote unquote further along than I thought. But I also want to make sure I keep earning it. So that's I want to make me proud. Yeah, obviously. I that's probably where it's shifted. Yeah. Yeah, I care more about what I think than almost anybody else, not from the toxic. But I I'm the one who has to put my my head down on the pillow at night. 48:04 and think about what I did before I go to bed, I want to make sure it's aligned. Do you think it helps you show up better for other people with this focus where you're responsible for yourself more so than looking for that external? Yeah, because it allows me to be who I think I should be. don't... That's the weird thing about this is like, I'm just thinking about me and you. Yeah. I just... 48:30 I'm just I'm just I just want to have cool conversation and see where it goes. I'm not really thinking about anything else that this is going to be on the Internet. And yeah, no, that's important. It's super important. I think for so long for me, like I showed up in the world in the way that I thought society needed me to show up. My father needed me to show up by grandma, you know, like whoever it was, you know, for a long time when I was a kid, it was like they just need to see I was happy. So I had to pretend that game be a perfectionist, which then snowballs into something even worse. 48:59 But at some point it was like, okay, no, like I'm my own human. And once I leaned into like being like Matt fully, I realized that I could show up for people in a way that wasn't exhausting. That wasn't like I was wearing a mask for this person, wearing a mask for this person. You know, it was like, this is what you get. And it's probably a better version than what it was before when I was pretending to be whatever I thought you wanted me to be. Yeah, I agree. 49:26 I think that's the key is you have to show up for you and everybody else benefits from that. so hard. It is. And it takes a long time. Yeah. It takes a long time. Yeah, and it's hard to like, you can't really teach someone how to do that. It's almost like we need to find it on our own, whatever that path may look like. There's not like one way to find where you can show up as a full human. It's like you almost need to, maybe. I mean, I guess I'm only speaking from my own personal experience, but. Yeah. 49:54 I think it helps if you have a goal that forces you to do that type of stuff. Because I didn't just do it to do it. Everything you see in front of you is a byproduct of something far greater. It's a convenient byproduct. It is a positive one in the right direction. if we didn't have the specific ambitions and aspirations, I would not be half of the person I am. I'm certain of it. I know I wouldn't be. Yeah. Do you feel that... 50:22 It's the wrong words, but that you, that moment in that hotel room where the 10 TVs were on in your head and the noise was so loud and you were contemplating things that maybe were not the best route for you, definitely were not the best route for you. Do you think that moment was necessary to get you where you are today? 100%. Yeah. Yeah. We call it the pain pleasure pendulum. When it swings all the way to hell, no, I think you're more willing to swing it to hell, yes. And let's give this a shot. 50:52 where if I just had like a bad day, yeah, it's like, well, tomorrow's Wednesday. That's hump day. Thursday's Friday light. Friday's Friday. And then you forget about it. I couldn't find something had to change. Unfortunately, I think this is this is a piece of the human condition. Necessity is usually required before we take change or we make change. And oftentimes that necessity comes from pain. So yeah, I, I feel like that is 51:21 100 % the reason and that would not have happened the way it did if it didn't go that way. Do you now prioritize or put a focus on your mental health and make sure that you're good in that space? So here's the interesting thing. When I left my job, my depression essentially went away. As weird as that may sound, my anxiety got drastically worse because I was so far outside my comfort zone. 51:51 But yeah, I mean, I always have an eye on it. I've been asked that before on podcasts, like, do you ever think you'll get to that place again? No, but very humbly, I never thought I'd get to that place in the first place. But I am way more proactive, like I'm searching for a therapist right now, even though I feel great, it's not a reactive thing. So no, I don't think that'll ever happen again. And I do think I do a way better job now, yeah. Yeah, and I don't ask that in a... 52:20 concern that you might, I think it's important to just, especially as a guy, I think talking about it and just realizing like we also can be full humans and that sometimes being a full human means that not all things are great all the time. And that's okay, because we're just kind of trying to experience life and sometimes things are crap and this is, and I think it's important even if you're not like, I don't think a therapist is the answer to. 52:48 everything, right? I think some people have practices that help them in the way that they show up in the world. And that is perfectly fine as well. I think it's more this like what we were talking about before this awareness of like, you know, this is how I'm feeling, I need to acknowledge it, I need to process it in the way that makes sense for me, and move forward with it instead of maybe the olden days of a lot of us brushing things under the rug, like I'll be fine. It's Wednesday, it's almost you Friday light, you know, in your whole sense of like, tomorrow will be better, I'll just 53:18 drink a lot and do whatever. So that was where that question comes from, not like forcing you like, who's your therapist? I didn't, I didn't, didn't feel it was that way. Some people have like journaling practices and I can't get into that. Just doesn't make any sense to me. And it's just not, not my thing, but it works for a lot of people. And so you got to kind of find the space. Yeah. Fitness is the thing for me, but outside of that, I'm just not bodybuilding prep. Cause that's a mental. 53:45 Yeah, that's too much. I just did a nice I just did a nice diet phase and it was like this is good This is constructive. We're not gonna push it any more than that But that's a that's the grounding thing for me as long as I'm doing fitness I'm usually in a pretty good spot. Yeah taking care of yourself. I think that's super important If if you could go back to that that version of you sitting on that that bed in that hotel room Is there anything that like this version of you would want to tell him? before that call with Alan 54:13 I think the one of the things for me that was such a struggle is I assumed the way I was then was the way I had to be forever. I did not understand how malleable we are as humans. I just thought like, yeah, this is who I am. And I would probably say like, Kev, look at how much you've grown externally. Yeah, you go to the gym and you do a certain muscle group and it grows. You can do that with your brain. You can do that with your self worth. You can do that with your self belief. 54:40 it's just different and it might not be as obvious from the external world. Let's start there. You've done so good at the external. We could do the same with the internal. Would he have listened to Matt? I don't know. I hope so. I hope so. But that's probably what I would try to tell him. Yeah. Well, luckily you called Alan. I you know, I think that that's important is having people around us to, I had another guest talk about like their core four and they have these like four people. 55:06 that they can always, no matter what it is, say something to. And I think if we find those people that can understand us maybe on a deeper level, you're so valuable. Right? Yeah, it's so valuable. Because you're not holding it all yourself. Because it's not, you we're all here together. So it feels like maybe we don't need to hold on to all of it ourselves and we can share with each other, even if it's not the most positive of things. Yeah. As long as I think as long as you find, I think that's good. The core for it, like that label, as long as you feel safe with sharing it. 55:36 The person might not have an answer, but they have an ear. And if they have an ear, that might be what you need in that moment. And most of times we don't need an answer. We just need someone to hear us. Mm-hmm. You know, and just acknowledge that we're existing and the way we're existing is how it is right now. 100%. And sometimes it sucks. A lot of times it sucks, you know, and that's okay. Yeah. We have a lot of days, hopefully, know, knock on some wood. have a lot of days to experience and hopefully the majority of them do not suck. Yes, 100%. 56:04 So, and to your point earlier, it's like you attached yourself to a lot of suffering and kind of really bonded to that feeling. And maybe that part of you can stay a little bit more in the past and you can focus on the other things moving forward. That's the goal. I still enjoy suffering to a degree. It's just- go to the gym. Yeah, the gym and I work long hours. It's constructive. It's constructive suffering now. 56:28 Can you tell us a little bit more about the business that you're running now and the things that are lighting you up? Because it's clear what you do lights you up as well as overwhelms you at times. I appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity. The business. So the podcast is Next Level University. We do an episode every day to help you level up your life, your love, your health, and your wealth. That's always the goal. Holistic personal development. And then from there, we've been able to coach a lot of amazing people and help a lot of amazing people with their lives. 56:57 with their relationships, with their businesses, with their podcasts. So I always suggest, if you're gonna do anything in the business, do something free. So the podcast is always free and we have a free book club and free meetups and all that stuff. So yeah. What's your favorite part of all of it? Selfishly, I get to grow in front of people, with people, connected to people every day. And it's really cool and it's a really unique privilege to be leading the charge on growth for so many people. 57:26 It's something I do not take lightly and I realize how privileged I am. So yeah, probably that just being somebody who's leading the charge on look, we can all get a little bit better every day. I very much enjoy that. Right. And I bet you learn a lot from the people that you're also helping because I think like, you know, it's it's not always a one way street. Hopefully it's not right. No, no, never. I learned so much. I learned probably more from this interview than anybody else listening. And that's the 57:53 That's the beauty of it. There's lessons everywhere for everybody. Yeah, I think it's really important. I love that you're doing that. And I love that it comes from this journey, although hard, and the things that you faced and the internal battles that you had, but also like the external wins and all the things that make you, definitely make you the version of you that can help all these people in different ways. Had you not had all those experiences or struggles or whatever they may be. 58:20 maybe you wouldn't be as valuable to them. I don't want to put a value on you, you know, agree. It's so important and gives you a different layer of perspective, but also a layer of empathy because I think a lot of people can relate to your experience. 100%. Yeah. If there's someone out there that heard your story is like, dude, same thing. I feel the same way. How are you? If they want to reach out to you and share a little bit about their story. 58:47 please emails kevin at nextleveluniverse.com. Instagram is at never quit kid. I love audio messages. You want to send me an audio message. challenge you to whatever, whatever will help you. I am in for and anything I can do to support, just a message away. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I asked that because I think there are people out there that are listening that feel like maybe they're the only one experiencing a feeling maybe that you expressed. And so maybe just by sharing that. 59:15 with you that, oh hey, this triggered something in me in a good way to kind of move forward. I think that's healing for the person saying it, but maybe also a nice little nugget to put in your pocket. Well, I appreciate you giving the audience an opportunity to do it, so very much. Hey, you know, I think of that eight-year-old version of me who thinks, oh God, I'm the only one going through this right now, and turns out I'm not. 59:36 and there are a lot of great people like yourself that have had things in their lives that maybe we wouldn't wish on other people, but we've experienced them and we've moved through them in ways that now we can give back to the world in a beautiful way. So thank you for what you do for people, whether it's through your business or just by being you, I think it's really important. I appreciate that. And I would mirror that right back to you. We've spent an hour and three minutes together. It's been wonderful. And I very much appreciate the opportunity and I appreciate the wonderful conversation. 01:00:06 I will also accept that. So thank you for the bookends of compliments. It's super kind. I haven't had 2,000 episodes, so I'm not quite sure how to end these things still after 200 episodes. But I do want to say thank you for being a part of this. And thank you to the listeners for just being on this life shift journey that I never could have expected for myself. And with that, I'm going to say goodbye. And I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Thanks again, Kevin. 01:00:43 please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com