How Isabelle Daikeler Found Strength in Surrender and Transformed Her Life

Sometimes, life brings us to a wall that we can't push past. For Isabelle Dichler, that wall came in the form of years of pain, loss of identity, and the moment she found herself alone on the floor in Hawaii begging for help. What followed was a surrender that reshaped her entire life. In this conversation, Isabelle shares the long road of letting go, the way fears and control kept her trapped, and how learning to befriend the unknown has opened her to a life of deeper authenticity. Her stories are a reminder that healing rarely looks like we imagine, and that strength often shows up in surrender. And I remember crying so hard, and it was the first time that I had a real deep prayer. That was my first real surrendering, where I just prayed, saying, I don't know how to do this. I don't know where else to go. I don't know. I don't know. I live like that. I don't know what helped me. It was a cry and a true surrender, which I think is the key to everything for us human beings. And at that moment, that is when my body started shaking. Like I've never said that. I was on my tailbone and my upper body and lower body, tailbone on the wooden floor. And I was in the air and shaking on winding. Now I know that everything was being unwinded. And but I didn't know at the time. And it went on for three days, three nights nonstop. I'm Mackel Hoolie, and this is The Life Shift. Candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever. Hello, my friends. Welcome to The Life Shift podcast. I am here with Isabelle. Hello, Isabelle. Hi, my dear. How are you? Oh, you know, we were just talking about how hot it is. It seems to be a little hotter where you are. Where are you? No, I think it's I'm in California. Okay. But it was like 110 where I was. No, thank you. I'm in Florida and it's just as hot, but not. Yes. It's humid. I don't know if it's just as hot as that, but you know, thank you for wanting to be a part of The Life Shift podcast. This has been a healing journey for the little version of Matt that I carry along with me. It's this journey that I never really thought I would come across. And now I get to talk to people across the world about these life shift moments. And I don't know, I think about the eight year old who found out from his father that my mom had died in a motorcycle accident. And I think, gosh, if that version of me could hear these beautiful human stories of resilience and that I wasn't alone and that I could make it through things, I mean, like how different would my life be? And so that's my goal with all these conversations is to help people out there listening that might be going through something or maybe wanting to make a big choice in something. And they hear someone else's story and just feel a little inspired or less alone or something like that. So thank you for being part of my healing journey before we even have this conversation. Well, thank you for having me. I love the whole concept. I think of these conversations like two friends sitting at a coffee shop talking like talking about real things and then all these listeners get to just kind of overhear what we're talking about. So I hope you're down for it. I'm down for it. I sat here. I met you at the coffee shop. So so before we get into your life shift moment, maybe you can tell us who Isabelle is in 2025. Like, how do you identify? How do you show up in the world? Okay. So I'll hit several level. One of the most important level. I'm 58. I think it's the first time that I'm making peace with the unknown and with fear. I'm the process of that. So I would identify myself of someone who kept running away from for most of my life and running into walls over and over again, right? So that is an amazing place for me to be at where I'm learning to make friends with fear and the unknown. It's a big one. Just hit me very recently that that's what I was doing or being or moving through. I'm showing up in terms of doing in the world. I'm showing up in a place that's called authenticity. And the reason why I called it that is obvious with what I just said, right? Took me forever to find and reside in that place that I feel is more authentically myself. Still a work in progress, but it's more real now than ever. Very scary for me to get there. I had to let go of so many patterns that I created that were wonderful to protect me for many, many years. Bow were useless at this point in my life. So beautiful. So in authenticity, we have harmonic egg, which is a huge sort of egg-shaped device that use sound and light. And you sit in there for like 40 minutes and then you sit in quiet for 10 minutes to process the session and then I let you out. And I talk to the individual. We talk about what's happening, what's going on. And we choose the songs, the melody and the lights according to what we're moving through what the individual wants to get into. And I do energy healing, which is something that just like you and ever thought I'd be doing. Chambling through that, which is more, it's more some kind of wisdom area that somehow landed on me at some point that I'm able to utilize just when I talk to people. So I can't say that I sit in channel, but it's part of what I do all the time. It keeps me honest. So that's what I do in the world. I still do some consulting, fitness consulting and I create products that are detoxification based and adaptogen mushrooms and shakes and things like that. But I spend a lot of my time at authenticity. You're busy. You're busy. Yeah. A busy human. But I love that you're in this new, I don't know, new, but in a space of which you're kind of embracing the fear and the unknown. And it sounds like maybe you were like some of us out here kind of programmed in a way of following whatever checklist either society gave us or we absorbed or whatever we felt was like the right thing to do and excuse me if I'm putting words in your mouth. But that's what it feels like. It's like I'm also now in my, I'm in my 40s and trying to show up as a full human where in my 20s and 30s, it was very prescribed. It felt like I was showing up in the way that either I thought my father wanted me to show up or I thought my friends wanted me to show up and not like all the pieces of me. And I'll tell you, it's hard, but it's also really freeing in a way because you're allowed to kind of just be and it's nice. So I hope this is a fun, enjoyable part of your journey as scary as it could be. No, it is. Actually, it's like a prison. You didn't know you had, right? So no, it's challenging and there's a lot emotionally, there's a lot of movement. But when you stand still and you allow it to move through you, first of all, you see the wisdom of your body moving that energy, these emotions, and then you get a bit more aware of the thoughts that are trying to hook to the emotions. And so facing fear, I think a big chunk of it is that is it's, it's all these emotions that have not been processed just through your body without the mind, hijacking it and sort of recycling it over and over again. And therefore you never, you move to the chaos of it, the drama of it, but you never really process and let go. It's just a rinse and repeat with different, you know, clothing. But now that I'm just not trying to understand it as much or fix it as much. Control. It's trusting your control. That's exactly right. Surrendering the control. So hard. But it's just sitting, right? Sitting with that, breathing through it. And there's a wisdom that's God in action, right? There's a wisdom to that. Like as it does that, this is when you get a lot of our moments, like understanding without having to use your analytical mind. It just kind of comes and you just, and that, oh, every time it's freedom, every time your body just, I don't have to hold this anymore. I don't have to adapt myself around that anymore. I can just let it go and I trust that I can just see what that's like. It's quite an amazing process. Sometimes I tell people, and I'm sure you're going to relate to that. Right now there's a lot of stories on podcast of traveling to Egypt and South America and these big trips and these wonderful places that have incredible history and power. But it makes you feel like, ah, I want to get to that incredible place in me. I want to see what that's like to experience and I can't go there. I can't afford it. My life is not set up that way. And you don't need to go anywhere, right? This is where they say your temple, your body is the temple, right? You really can have these moments of great freedom of letting go of awakening right here right now in your home. You don't need to go anywhere. It's fun. It's wonderful. I'm not putting it down. But it happens when you allow it to happen, when you allow it to happen and you nailed it, it's complete surrender. And it's not something that really is taught to us or at least it hasn't been, you know, in generations, we're just, we're very conditioned to be programmatic and control every event as we can and not really surrender because what happens if dot, dot, dot, and you know, like, so we're kind of, a lot of us have been stuck in those modes. It sounds like maybe you were in that for a period of time. So maybe we can go into your kind of leading up to your life shift moment. Like, can you paint the picture of who Isabel was in the earlier version of who you were to give us a before? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not sure if you're in the earlier version of who you were, but because you really go, you really go there with your questions and what your podcast is about. I feel very comfortable, like starting early so that you can really see the trajectory of one human being going through their crap, right? And if we haven't gone through crap, then are we humans? I mean, I feel like, right? Exactly. That's part of it. It's part of it. Being, making friends with the crap, right? Yeah. Back home from Montreal, my family is in the film and music industry. So I was expected to do that. And I was sort of, and not so many words told that that's pretty much probably all I can be good at. The whole family, the whole family is into all that. And so I was sort of expected to do that. I stepped into that and very early on, even though I felt like I wasn't good at anything else, I realized it's just not me. I'm not fulfilled at all. I got a part. First, I moved to Europe, but then I got a part in United States. I didn't speak English. I came. I worked. I learned the language. And then I started getting a little gig. I got a good agent. I can see the trajectory in front of me, but I was miserable. I was miserable. But I loved sport. I was always kind of athletic. And I love sport and the body and health, Mavargo. It befits me well. And I just at some point quit and moved into that, started studying that. And in the midst of all that, I got into a car crash where my ability to walk was very minimal. And I was told I was going to limb for the rest of my life, which was a big no-no. So I went to rehabilitation and realized that they're not really going all the way with it. So I studied deeply and got myself back on track. And that started getting me clients. And then I got sick in my early 20s. They didn't know what it was. They were telling me that I was depressed and I just needed an antidepressant. And I was quite depressed because I had not been working for about two years. I was borrowing money on my credit card, couldn't work. And I was getting very weak, tired all the time, just not well until one day I could barely even move up to the steps of my place. I've been a very panicked, fearful place. Somehow I was led to a career town here in LA and met these women that hooked me up with mushrooms and adducted in herbs and all that good stuff, root vegetables, taught me how to cook it. And I went with these huge baskets and I went home and I cooked it, took hours and started drinking these weird potions. So is that something you would have done before? Or is this like, I'm given up on the... traditional? Yeah, I went for two years and got no one there. Nobody knew what I had and everybody wanted to give me some drugs even though they didn't know what I had, which was very scary and made me even more fearful. And probably more sick. Yes, oh, because I was so depressed and so scared. And I tried like just one antidepressant and messed me up to no end and said never again. And then, you know, likely due to these little ladies barely spoke English, my place stank, but I cooked these things and within three months or so I started feeling better after two years of just getting worse and worse. In the interim, I was starting to understand that there was a relation between my emotions and my physical well-being. And anyway, got better, continued studying these things, these root vegetables, adapted in mushrooms, which are so popular now, but I had never heard of them and I was in a cook. So it was a completely different trajectory and I started making potions for my clients and eventually it became a shake that I created for our company. But that led me into nutrition and I added that as another tool to help my clients. And then cut to, I give birth, I give birth here at our house and after giving birth, once again, I couldn't walk for about 10 years. Really? 10 to 12 years. I could sort of hobble in the house, but literally if I step on a little rock, I was in bed for a month. And this is when the real shift. So there was this little shift, but this basically kicked in my channeling and it kicked in the healing. But the channeling was literally just download of information that started messing with the programming and changed me without me even realizing it because I was on the basement of my house for hours and hours that they're doing little rehabilitation moves, trying to help myself, trying different people. They never really helped me until I found one good one. But in, throughout that decade, I had a newborn. I was in chronic and deep acute pain, nonstop, married a wife and feeling like unable to achieve anything where I couldn't be a good mom in my head and I couldn't be a good wife. And I lost like 20 something pounds of muscle. My identity was how fit and strong I was. That was gone. For 10 years. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then the channeling, the downloading happened and there was a change in me, but it took me years to realize that it was happening. But it was so scary that everything I thought I want, you know, I thought I was going to be the mom with the kid on a backpack hiking, right? And everything that I had identified myself to, including independence, went out the window and everything in my current life was challenged and I was in pain constantly. And that's when the real transformation became the healing happened. I never thought I would do healing work. My hands started doing healing work by itself. I practiced on my husband and took me forever to surrender to it because I was so pissed. I used to do body work, like very deep body work. And suddenly my hands were hovering. I was like, oh, crap, not that. Like, you know, it was just like a dog going to the vet. Like I just didn't want to give in. And eventually I did and the transformation of my life happened little by little. I'm a slow brain sizzle. I'm stubborn. And like I just didn't surrender. Like I hear other people surrender. I really just, like it was just tough for me to like. By surrender, do you mean to the what what people would say is maybe not the mainstream at the time? Is that what you're saying? Like surrender to myself. Okay. The transformation in myself. It's not what you expected to be. Yes. Yes. Not be the human that I thought I was going to be, you know, control. Control. Yeah. Yeah. There's so much in my mind when you asked me that question. But really it was surrendering. See throughout that 10 years, what was being wrong was all my fear, all my insecurity. Then it was one thing to move through that in that state, but then applying it like stepping into life with this new model. That took me a while. So long and so it taught me a lot, right? It kept being humiliated by myself and humbled because it was unfamiliar because it was unfamiliar, scary. I had judgment and I didn't know what to do with it. It's not like the healing started and I thought, oh, I'm going to do healing work. It wasn't like that. Interesting. And yet funny enough, so none of that stuff was really familiar to me prior, but funny enough, everything was extremely easy and natural. So the channeling from never to it's just who we are. It was understood that we all do. It's just who we are. The energy work, everything about it was just normal. Like that was that's normal. What I was before was it. So it was like more innate skill. Yes, it was really my true nature. And the other part was programmed or taught yourself to, yeah, that makes sense. Correct. Going back to this idea of your family had this expectation of you that you were going to exist in this space. You were going to be successful only in this space. And then you with probably some strength and some challenge chose a slightly different route, right? Like you chose this fitness route of kind of leaning into that when you decided to do that and kind of go a quote unquote against what your family was thinking. Did you feel a need that you needed to prove yourself in that space because you were going against? This is really coming from my own insecurities here. But did you have this because part of me thinks if you were trying so hard to exist and do well in that space, it would make it would make me even more reluctant to let go of that and lean into the innate talents that I have. So are you asking going against the grain in the fitness by going into the fitness? Yeah. I was like, I had to prove something to your parents or to your family. No, because part of my life was running away from my parents. Okay. But even still you were doing the acting thing or you were doing because it took me, you know, it was very young when when they took over my dad was also, you know, would manage talents and and there was a this deep desire to please your parents and and be what they want you to be and and being told that you were not good and anything else made you even more insecure to to go there and do that because I'm not good at anything else. And that's what I dealt more regarding your question was I knew that I had an innate love and passion for sport and athletics and health. But I felt myself for it was so low. I felt like the odds are I won't be able to do anything about it. But I didn't know what else to do. I was so miserable at going after that other line of work, which by the way, I love and respect from the outside. I love movies and films and music and scripts. I love everything about this industry in terms of the consumer. I I am not designed to be in it. And so it's that low self worth that made it so hard. Again, it's funny. You said courage to change direction. I never saw it that way. I always felt like I it's like I'm against the wall and I got to do something. I don't know if it's courage, right? It's like, I can't go there anymore and I'm going to go there. But yeah, that was more the state I was in. I see it as courage. I mean, coming from my own experience, losing my mom was like an abandonment for a young kid. And so I took on perfectionist tendencies. So I thought I had to be perfect so that my dad wouldn't leave as well. And so I wouldn't have done like if my dad was like, you need to go do this, which he never did. But if he was to do that and I went down the road, say, like in your family, you have to go be this. I would find it really hard to have the courage to switch into something that I loved and was passionate about because of that. So that's where that question came from of like, wow, that is big to follow your heart and your and your dreams and your passion. I think it's bigger than maybe you're making it out to be. So maybe so. Congrats to you for having the courage to pivot. But it's funny because you say it was health and fitness and sport and all these things. And it sounds like you're kind of health and fitness now, but in a different way. So it was like, it's always been in there, but you were trying to find the traditional correct box to fit in. You're so right. And and I look back thinking, Oh, yes, even that I didn't do the same way. First, I had my whole mushroom gig thing that nobody did at the time, really. But also I was always more intuitive. I I love talking to people. I became more interested in their history and their emotional and psychological challenges. And I saw deeply saw how the emotional state would enhance my ability to help them physically. Is it their openness, maybe? Yes, some of them. Are you talking about where they open to it? If they were open, if they were more open and sharing, I would go with them, right? You go with the individual. I would go as far as someone would lead me or not. They're very conventional. So I start, I look back and I say, Oh, yeah, I could see the me now in these moments. Yeah. Yeah. And kind of, but you have to, I mean, I feel like we all play the role in society where we have to like fit into a box that people are expecting. Yes, you had your mushroom thing going. You were just ahead of the times, you know, in your space, but kind of beside the thousands years old. Well, the side. Yes. Yeah. In the mainstream, your potions, as you say, giving to your clients. I think, I think now it's probably commonplace, whereas maybe when you were doing that. Yeah, the trade that I created was one of the first of its kind. And now there's. They're everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about now I'm thinking about the 10 years that you went through. Did you find yourself? I mean, it sounds like you were finding yourself in and letting go a little bit, but also fighting a little bit. Were you in a depressed state? Did you find yourself in that because you were losing your identity, losing the things that you expected of yourself and fighting against it? Was that a tough emotional period as well? Or were you kind of, I don't know where that question's going, but I'm just curious if it was like 10 years is a long time. And I feel like you can a few more years of active rehabilitation to get back. Right. So what was that like? How do you stay? How are you here? Yeah, I was in like, I was in not a master in my way of moving through. It was one of the hardest thing I moved through in my life. Depression was there. Fear was there. A sense of failing at everything because it was challenging to raise my boy and to be a wife and to still do some work. Like I said, the pain, the physical pain was very real. It was very acute, constant chronic. And trying to find solutions I was looking for help constantly throughout this entire time when the help came, I almost was giving up. But funny enough, so the real click happened when at some point, it's funny, I've never gotten that deep on podcast with that. So thank you for allowing me to do that. I hope it will have value for you and your people. At some point, what happened is we went to Hawaii in Kauai. And everybody went to dinner and I had a nanny because I couldn't carry him. And she went to dinner with my husband, my boy. And I stayed in the bedroom. And I had sort of my legs, you know, on the chair, 90 degree. And my back was on the floor. My chairs were, my legs were on the chair. And I was in pain. And I remember crying so hard. And it was the first time that I had a real deep prayer. And I just, you know, that's when that was my first real surrendering, where I just prayed saying, I don't know how to do this. I don't know where else to go. I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to live like that. I don't know what to help me. Like it was a cry and a true surrender, which I think is the key to everything for us human beings. And at that moment, that is when my body started shaking. Like I was, I've never said that. I was on my tailbone and my upper body and lower body, tailbone on the wooden floor. And I was in the air and shaking, unwinding. Now I know that everything was being unwinded. And but I didn't know at the time. And it went on for three days, three nights, nonstop. If I thought, Oh my God, I have to pee, everything would stop. I would crawl the bathroom pee and on my way back, I would start shaking and go back to that position. And that went on and on. Bless my husband. He just walked in the room and say, Are you okay? And I, Yes. Because the weird thing about these moments and a lot of people in my world actually had these wild moments where I felt completely at peace, completely okay, not wondering what was going on, knowing that it was perfect. And that's the divine. And, and that went on. And that was the, that was the turning point. Yeah, the full surrender. That was the turning point. Like you were, that was the, I mean, it sounds like that was the wall moment. Like in you get this, like, I've gone to the doctors, I've gone to this doctor, I've tried this, I've tried every, I mean, so many people have hit this, this like, what do I do now? Yeah. And then everyone's like, and they just go one more time. And you were just like, I'm done. Like I can't do this anymore. And then your body was like, that's what we needed. All right. And then you're like, I'm going to go and we'll show you what to do. It's so fascinating for someone that's very type A and like needs an answer for everything. Were you very much like, yeah, yeah, very analytical. I'm a Virgo. I was a true Virgo, very clean and organized analytical or good researcher. Yeah. But I had that, that, that intuitive side of me, but I was not aware of it as much at all. But now I look back and this moment doesn't seem that crazy because I even know that somatic modalities actually recreate these kind of tremor and shaking in order to release trauma from the settler aspect, the central nervous system of use. So in a way, you know what I mean? Like, oh, it's not weird at all. It's exactly what the body needs. And there's a reason behind it. Yeah. And I know what before I started this podcast journey, I would have said, oh, that sounds odd, but it doesn't because I've had so many conversations with people in different, all different walks of life that have had not the exact same moment, but similar as moments, right? And which they're like, I can't explain it, but also I can explain it because, you know, like here's why it makes sense, but yeah, didn't really make sense of this at the time, but also felt peaceful. And so it just sounds like your body was like taken over me like, okay, let me show you what you need to do. Yeah, because I didn't know, right? Nothing. Well, you knew a lot. Maybe you knew too much and you needed to just like clear it out a little. Sometimes we think too much. Like sometimes it really is just like gut, like that gut feeling that so many of us just push aside and do what we, you know, we ignore it. And so sometimes we know too much. One of the thing that they told me, my guidance told me at the time was they were turning me inside out, meaning I had built a nice solid armor, very weak and scared inside and they run me inside out so that I could start finding out what to strength is. That's frightening. Right? Yeah. Well, at the time I was like, oh, yeah, wow, I look back and that was basically the rest of my life till now. Yeah. And that was the important part. It's like I was in the trip and it takes you a few decades to process the lessons and incorporate them in actions. Yes. I think that I've heard that story as well. I've heard those stories often after those three days of where your body was kind of taking over when that movement stopped. Where were you? Like not literally, but like mentally where were you? Yeah. It was that peace, that quietness. The body was less tense, more relaxed. And I think it was my real sense of being grounded. Right? Granted, it's not just the physical touching the grass and the ground. It is part of it, of course, is, but it's almost like the energetics also reaches out into the ground so that you're so nice and solid down there that you can then just reach out. Right? And I think that sensation was extremely new to me. That's also when the chanting happened. And it's not like I didn't, again, it's not like I knew just my husband asked a question and I answered and it might, I was just like, what did I just say? And at the time it was not, it was not incorporated. Yeah. It's not a view. Yeah. It's just. Like a floating entity within you. No, no, not even that. It was more that my voice would changed. And I trusted that for quite a while. I was like, okay, I can trust it because my, it was different. It was very scary when it started to incorporate and it was just me talking because then I, I was very aware of the ego trap and how do I know now that it's not my ego playing games with me? I didn't have a solid gauge the same way. And that became a whole other awareness of the ego and all its little subtle ways through that channeling. And it's funny because channeling seems wild for others, but something I didn't know anything about. And like I said, it was so normal. And for me, it's not out there, you know, anything like that. For me, it's this deep wise, perhaps my soul, this deep wisdom there that I never used and tapped into like, I have a third arm, but I never used it. And it could be so useful for my day to day and for my, my piece, my own piece. So it just made total sense. It was natural. And I was, it happened a second. I stopped shaking. Never before. Yeah. It was interesting. But your healing was not instant, right? No, but the beginning of it, the start because I had a little bit less pain. Like it was, it was just, I was just feeling different. And it's also like they almost like reboot me. I wasn't scared as much. I wasn't depressed. And I, I continue searching and eventually I've found. Did you have more hope? Yes, everything was just sweeter. Everything was just maybe it's this deep knowing that was somewhere in me. Everything was news. I didn't have a way to explain it. I just one step at a time, but everything changed somewhere in me. I just, it's one thing to know, right? We're very good at listening to a million podcasts and reading a million books and listening to the great masters. But if you could just take one or two things and diligently apply those, that truth, that that, that those two things, that's when the unfolding and the unraveling and being reborn and changing and being better at residing in that lovely sweet place, the world doesn't change. You just, your perspective and how you go about it changes. So yeah, that was the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. The hierarchy of things and, and then eventually the last part to give, I think is being softer on yourself and kinder to yourself and forgiving yourself. So it's the good old stuff that we all know about. We all get there differently. That was just how I got there. Yeah. Is there anything that, that was really sticky that you were like, I cannot shake this part of this old version of me, like anything that I want to stick around? Okay. So you, that took the hardest to. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Are you even worth doing this? Like kind of moment? Like, is it an unknowing of not knowing how little I valued myself, not, you know, it was always worth that for me to deny or suppress or lower what I, you know, in a relationship what I needed, my needs. People pleasing for someone else's need. Yeah. And not even quite being sure what my needs were. So I think this is why I said earlier to go back to the very beginning at 58, like all that is really online now. I'm starting to proceed from there. It's very new. Like I said, I was a really slow brain sizzles for anybody who's listening. Like I was not quick at it. I've bought it every step of the way. It's just now that I think I'm much more kind and willing. Are things richer and more beautiful now because of the hardships and all the. Whether 100%. Listen, even the fact of aging, right, especially as a woman, aging is a lot easier. I lost my ability to be in my body and function for so long and at several times in my life, right, when I had the car accident when I got sick and then after the birth. So me staying in shape and being healthy is far removed from vanity, not because I'm so great, but because I lost it in such a deep manner that the value of it is incredible and that's what I'm after when I'm fit as opposed to if you haven't, if you don't get that in a big way, vanity takes over. You're working out because of vanity in a big way, wanting to stop aging, wanting to look good in whatever you're wearing. Everything is wrong with that. We all want to look nice, but it can't be front center. It can't be the reason and often unconsciously it's the reason because society is constantly just shoving it in your face, right? Being 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 and it's not starting to. It's contagious to men now. I was hoping we would maybe go back to more like how men are, but it's starting to attack how men should look now, right? I got all the gray. We look beautiful and women have always enjoyed a man going gray or getting older. So I'm watching what's happening to the men market. I'm like, oh, you guys don't go there. It doesn't work, but we are bombarded with it. And so we do everything to stay young. So being healthy at 50 something or 60 something or 70 something or even 30 something is not enough anymore. You have to look like you're 20 something forever. If you don't look forever 20 or 30, you're not aging well. It's a whole different state of mind that puts you in a stressful place that is a self-rejection of our humanity and what happens to all of us and also the normalcy of letting go of what youth is about and enjoying it to its fullest and then enjoying to its fullest what aging is about. And then what that can, you know, the nourishment that can provide to your children or the people around you and losing that is an aspect of you that you lose and you're busy holding on. And that's a lot of energy in a place that will not fulfill you. Yeah. Well, it also sounds, I mean, the way you talk about it in society, I mean, it feels like there's a lot of self worth lacking and a lot of people that are doing those things because it is in a lot of cases, people are getting things done so that other people see them in a way that they're trying to project because that's the acceptance piece that we've been taught. Been taught. And people aren't like, they don't know how to be vulnerable, full humans because nobody's really laid out that plan for us in the general sense, right? Like just for even for me, it was like growing up, I was like, I wasn't allowed to cry because I was a boy, you know, like, I had a dead mom, like I should have been able to cry. You didn't even at that age? I'm sure I cried, but I wasn't allowed to like let anyone know I was sad. I wasn't, you know, like, because I was afraid that if people saw I was sad, they would abandon me as well. And so, you know, you just kind of mask everything and then it turns into a big hot mess, you know, and then eventually you have to hit a wall. You don't have to, but I feel like most of us do most of us have to hit something because then it makes everything on the other side so much sweeter. It gives more value to the things that we lean into like, had I not had 20 years of failing at grieving my mom, I don't think I would be able to share my vulnerabilities, have conversations with people about things that I don't understand or cannot have never experienced, but also still have empathy for those experiences. Had I not had a really bumpy, messy, terrible grief journey? I wouldn't have had a beautiful grief journey when I lost my grandmother. So it's like these things like, oh my God, that must have triggered everything, right? No, it was beautiful because what happened is, oh, yeah, it was like, I couldn't do all these things with my mom. And so now I'm going to have the conversation that everyone waits to have until it's too late and I'm going to sit by her bed until she takes the last breath of her life. All the, and it was sad, of course, but it was beautiful. Like it was something that I never would have done had I not had the hard things. And in your case, leaning into the vulnerability, leaning into, you know, letting go of control and the fear and hello, fear. Let's, let's be friends because it's going to be a much more enriching life. I think if we, if we have all the pieces, yes, yes, right? It's not like you're going to be happy all the time, just because, you know, you're feeling this way, you're still going to have bad days and you're still going to have normal experiences. God knows gets deeper and deeper. Yeah. Yeah, but different, different ride for sure. And the more I talk to people in my, what I do now is I talk to people all the time and every person has an incredible story. I just think just so much human beings go through so much and we all move through it somehow. We just get through it. But in the moment, we don't think we can like you on the floor in Hawaii, like, yes, you were like, there's no way, like, how am I going to do this for the rest of my life? That's right. And you were like, somebody helped me and you helped you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From inside out, right? That's a good way to put it. Yeah. And here you are. Now you're able to channel that energy and what you do for yourself to help other people. So like now we all benefit because of your really crappy and hard experience. Yes. You know, like the world is better now because you have that experience, which is a really crappy thing of Matt to say, but it's kind of weird. No, no, it's absolutely how the whole world is. That's we all do that. But we don't talk about it. But we don't talk. But I think it's starting to change. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah. I think I see it more and more. I think it's starting to change. And I definitely see it with the people that come to my place. Sometimes I just can't believe that it's the kind of people I thought would never ever be in a place like that. That's good. I would never think that I would do what I do now. Back in the days, especially when I was doing track and field work and sport massage, if I had a masseu and the masseu would say, I'll just do a little bit of right key energy work on your head before we start, I would cringe and I would think, oh, I'm just going to smash your head against the wall. Don't say that stuff. I was so just like annoyed to no end. And here I am. Here you are. The opposite. You're like, give it to me. This is all I want to do. Here's, I don't know. Sometimes we have to uncover that for ourselves. We have to be stubborn and reluctant. And then when it works, you lean in. And luckily you didn't keep pushing away, right? Like you actually eventually let go, submit to your actual talents and your skills. So you have deep down with it. Yeah. And look, it's been, I don't know how old was I, I don't remember, but it's been a while now, at least a few decades. And I still feel like a beginner. That's good though. Yeah, it is. So there's that battle with ego that you've been able to keep that thing. But it's a little easier. And the ego, I don't view it as a battle anymore. Okay. You know, I see it more as it has its place. I just have to know where the place is and the heart and the divine is the leader. And the ego is great. Like you just, it just has its place. It's a reason why it's there. And so then you don't, it's not so much a battle, but more like a conversation that needs to be had, you know. So you have a voice against it now or not against it with it. Yeah. I should rephrase that. The conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas maybe before you didn't. Yes. Correct. At all. Right. It's like, oh, I'll submit. Tell me what to do ego. And now it's like, okay, let's let's negotiate here. And not even knowing that I was submitting to the ego. No, it's me. Exactly. Yeah. None of us really kind of understand that until we. Yeah. But it has a lot to teach you. It's really not, there's no real battle to be had, but it takes a while for that to land really. And then once it's landing, you're like, oh my God, it took so long. I think that's beautiful though. I think there's something really beautiful about self awareness and the ability to reflect and not judge, but go, okay, I see why I did that at that particular time. Curious I was going to say, yeah, be curious about it. It's velocity. Because for years, I would look back and go, damn that you've really screwed up. Like you could have, you could have done all this when you were 10, you know, like you could have grieved and figure this life out. But now I have a little bit more compassion because I was just trying to exist. But at the time you just feel like a, I don't know, it's nice to have this ability now to be self aware and reflect on these things in a more compassionate and kind way, not perfect at it, which is probably a good thing. I just want to, you know, just be a human. It never ends. It never ends. So there's no be good at it. No better. You know, all that goes out. It never ends. You just, you just, the evolution continues and you just get, you have a better sense of humor about it. You forgive a little bit better. You get patient and more able to listen to really listen another. You just, you know, it just gets easier until the next morning. Yeah, until the next wall that we run into. I think it also, it allows you to better understand other people too. And the motivations, if you understand yourself, I think you can also start to see the motivations of other people and why. Maybe they might be choosing something that you wouldn't and you can kind of, I think there's a different compassion or different level of compassion that comes along with something like that. And it still hurts. Even if you understand it, it will still hurt. So you'll still deal with it. What I didn't expect from having a child was, Oh, I am watching how the human being unfolds and imprints and reaction. That's scary. No, it's beautiful because you understand your child, your own, the child that you were. You had constant like, Oh, this is how this happens. Like when the child starts doing things that it's you, you're like, Oh, no, don't do that. Exactly. You just start getting how you became who you became. You understand it. It gives you compassion for yourself. Like, of course, the eight year old was and behaved and handled the way it handed that it was the only way it knew he knew how to handle it. So you're not saying, Oh, it should have you get it. Yeah, but it took me a while to get it for a while. I was should having it. Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's been a journey and I'm so glad that I had it. You know, I don't regret it because it brought me here, you know, and it brought us to these conversations and I don't know, I think it's important to honor all of my journey and not yes, just the fun parts, right? So I love to kind of wrap up these conversations with a question and I'm wondering if Isabel in this moment, if you could bump into or stand next to the Isabel as your family was ready to go to dinner that night in Hawaii and you were staying behind before you surrendered. Is there anything that you would want to say to that Isabel? You're stronger than you think. Because I felt so weak. Yeah, you're stronger than you think you're good enough. You're worth being loved. You know, it's not the thing you lost. One of the reason why you were lovable. You're just lovable as you are and you're safer than you think. Yeah, it can happen, but it's, it's a wonderful exercise to think about because we have such compassion for those versions of us when maybe we didn't in the moment. Yes, yes. It's nice to look back and go, okay, I got you. We're going to get through this. That's right. We're very little compassion for ourselves throughout, especially the hard times. Yeah. Like I should be, I should fix this. Now, this has been such a beautiful conversation and I'm so honored that you wanted to explore your life in this way and talk about it in this way. Let's thank you for making the space for these kind of conversation. It's really lovely. I think, you know, I thank you and I think that I just want more people to have these conversations and every day, like not just recorded on podcasts, but just like in everyday living, we really connect with each other like you and I, we didn't know each other before we got on here. And now I feel very connected to you because I know more about you and more about you as a human and not you as a professional or, you know, any of these things, like just as a genuine human. So thank you for. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Wonderful space you created. Thank you for having me. I want to honor you if someone's listening to this right now and they connected with something you said or they went through a similar moment and they want to connect with you, see what you offer to the world. Want to tell you their story like what's the best way to find you and connect with you. Thank you. I appreciate that. It's called the authenticity stress less. Dot com. That's my website. It's the same thing on Instagram and on Facebook authenticity stress less dot com. Definitely put those links in the show notes. So if you're listening, that's the easiest way. How do you feel if someone reaches out to you and just says like, Hey, when you said this, loved it. Thank you. I'm moving in the world differently. Oh, God. Yeah. Like I'll take that anytime. It's that's why that's why I babble. You did not babble, but thank you for babbling. It was, you know, I just, it's really hard to imagine like five years ago me being able to have these conversations in this way. So I'm just really honored that you wanted to, wanted to do this. And so honored that so many people listened to this podcast, people now and people in the future, right? This is going to be around forever. So I hope that that this conversation has met whoever's listening right now where you needed it and maybe inspired you to take a different step or made you feel less alone. Just super honored. And with that, I'm going to say goodbye and I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Thank you so much. Thank you. For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com.