He Lost the Job. He Found His Life.

00:00 Sometimes life pushes pause for us before we're ready. Clay Garrett was moving through the motions of what looked like the right path, steady job, family, checking those boxes. Then, right before the world shut down, he lost his job. And what came next wasn't just survival, it was actually a shift into living with intention, connection, and a whole new sense of purpose. In this episode of The Life Shift, Clay shares how that forced pause shaped his relationship with his family, his work, 00:29 and himself. got laid off right before the whole thing exploded in United States. And uh I go home, I tell my wife and I'm like, she's like, immediately, you need to go uh to the local unemployment office and all that kind of stuff. And so I do all that. And as I finished filling out the paperwork, the woman at the uh unemployment office tells me she said it'll be up to two weeks before you get your first check from unemployment. 00:59 And I told her, said, I'll have a job by then. And then that week, like suddenly it was all over. was like, there's no chance of me getting a job. They're shutting everything down. I'm going to be stuck at home for God knows how long. As that sort of moved forward, I realized like in the moment that it's kind of a gift. was like, this is an opportunity for me to like invest in my family in a way that I don't know I would have a chance to do before. 01:29 I'm Maciel Huli, and this is the Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever. 01:47 Hello, my friends. Welcome to the LifeShift Podcast. I am here with Clay. Hello, Clay. Hi. Thank you for being a part of the LifeShift Podcast. is... I don't know how to say this differently because I say it every time, but this is like an unexpected journey for me, something that I never knew I needed. And it came to me via the most strange way possible. And it was through a bonus master's degree that I got during the pandemic because I was bored. 02:17 And I took a podcasting class and this was an assignment. And here we are over 200 episodes later, like really on this journey of talking to people and like healing things that I thought were already healed or like that I didn't know still needed to be healed. So thank you for just wanting to be a part of the life shift. Oh, thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to it. I am too. I never know where these conversations are going to go. 02:44 but I'll just kind of set the stage for anyone listening for the first time, because you are on. This show's concept comes out of my own life experience. When I was eight, my parents were separated. I lived with my mom full time. My dad lived states apart from us, and I was visiting my dad one summer. And one day after summer camp, he brought me into his office, and he had to tell me that my mom had been killed in a motorcycle accident. And at that moment in time, I was eight, did not have any tools. 03:13 to handle something like that. And unfortunately, the people around me and society in general weren't really talking about how to help a kid through something like that or how to face grief head on or mental health or anything that we kind of talk about these days. And I just kind of pushed it down for like 20 something years. But behind the scenes, I was always like, do other people have these like, someone tells them something and in one second, everything about. 03:42 what they thought about their life was going to be has now changed. And so now I get to talk to people about these moments. And some of them are external and things that like couldn't control like my circumstance. But then also there's other people who one day they wake up, they choose a book off a shelf and read a page that they've read 15 times. And that one page like triggered them to quit their job, start a new business, move to another country. And so it's really been just quite a journey listening to other people's stories about. 04:11 resilience and transformation. And I've learned that as wildly different as our experiences are, the feelings that we have around them and through them are so similar. it's just been, it's been really cool to be able to talk to people like yourself, even before I've had a chance to hear your story. So that's the baseline of the life shift. Awesome. That's, that's, that's a story. That is a story. 04:39 And it's just part and you know what? It's funny too, because I naively went into this thinking people just have one life shift and it's like if we're lucky, we probably have a whole bunch of them, right? Yes, in some ways. And it's hard to say if we're lucky because mine wasn't one that I would choose for myself. But also, if I look back on it, all the things that I get to do now stem from that really hard experience. And I'm sure you can relate in your own life shift story of what we're going to talk about today, although different how that 05:08 moment in time kind of change who you are as a person and moved you through that. Absolutely. And you look back and a lot of you don't realize in the moment a lot of the time that that's, you know, only looking back do you realize that shift happened most of the time. Right. Yeah. And that's with, I think it takes the ability to have the like the self-awareness and the ability to reflect honestly on our lives. Cause sometimes some of us, including myself, 05:34 got really stuck in the blame game for a long time and just used it as a crutch or something like that. And so if we're lucky, we get to that self-reflection and the self-awareness part, which allows us to either replicate things that we really liked or avoid the things that didn't serve us well in the first place. before we start your story, maybe you can tell us who Clay is 2025. How do you show up in the world? Like, how do you identify these days? It's funny. Like, I don't know that 06:04 I project out that I feel much different than I did before, but you know, internally, I feel a lot more aligned with the things I want to do or, and I'm a, a writer for a email newsletter called Campfire Gentlemen. And that is, it takes up almost all of my middle bandwidth. feel like I have other things I do, but I'm always thinking about. uh 06:34 the ways I can make a newsletter, I kind of consider myself to be a writer, right? You know, in this, at this point in life. This version? Yes. This version of you, where have you always been a writer or is this like a new found joy or something that you like to do now? It's funny, like I was saying earlier, you you don't, you look back and you're like, okay, now that makes sense. It didn't. So no, I never considered myself a writer, but I look back and now there's a there and I had to be 07:03 I think it was the sixth grade, we had to write this story. Mine got the best grade in the class. I mean, was at that point, I mean, it sounds sort of pompous to say, but it was by far the best one in the class, you know, and then throughout I wrote for a uh magazine. wrote, I was an actual, a graphic designer is what I am. And so I liked, I was like, I like this magazine's content, I know they'll let me write anything. And so they were down for it. So I wrote. 07:30 seven or eight articles and really enjoyed that. And so there's been these key points where I look back and like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. But no, I never considered myself a writer until the last year, really. You are not alone. A lot of people find writing a little bit later, maybe in a way that serves them. I talked to a lot of people about how, even for myself, how putting whatever's in our head down on paper makes sense of things, things kind of 08:00 sort themselves out in a different way. For me, everything in my head when I'm thinking about something is much scarier and all over the place and kind of when I get it on paper, I'm like, oh, it doesn't look so bad. I think I can handle this. So I think that a lot of people come to writing and find a lot of healing and value, I think, in that. So I'm glad that you found it and you're enjoying it. yes. And, you know, it's one of those things I think about. 08:28 um I'm writing sort of about my life experiences and how things, how the things that happen in my life reflect my sort of goals and uh values and that sort of thing. And so to write about your life experience, you kind of have to have some life experience. So it makes sense, you know, that it would be later. Yeah, we should probably send that memo to some people. Yes. Well, let's let's get into your story so we can figure out how you got to this place. But. 08:57 why don't you paint the picture of your life going back as far as you need to, to kind of paint that before version of clay, before this life shift moment, and then we'll just kind of take it apart from there. We can go all the way back, essentially to college. That's where my... That's not all the way back. But that's kind of where my, you know, career obviously starts. And so I go and get my degree and get a job in the... I'm a graphic designer, I have a degree in graphic design. I immediately went and worked for a print shop after I graduated and then... 09:27 went to eventually went to corporate marketing and worked 10, 12 years in corporate marketing through all that. I got married, I have two kids. And so I'm just sort of going, you know, more or less the route you would expect. you're going, every job is better than the net, better pay, better status or whatever you want to say from the previous one. call that society's checklist of like, just doing the things that, that we've all somehow. 09:53 ingrained in ourselves that that was the next thing we need to do to be successful. So it sounds like you were kind of checking the boxes too. Checking the boxes. And at no point was I particularly unhappy, but at no point was I like, man, this is lighting me up, you know. And there were moments, mean, there were parts of it were and parts of it weren't. And a lot of the parts that were end up going forward into what I'm doing now in different ways. so I'm going through all that and then COVID happens. 10:22 And so COVID is the flash point. For you and a lot of people, I'm guessing. And I got laid off in 2020, in March. I got laid off right before the whole thing exploded in United States. And so it's right before Tom Hanks goes into isolation and all that kind of stuff. And the NBA season shuts down. So this is about a week before all that happens. And I go home. 10:51 I tell my wife and I'm like, she's like, immediately you need to go uh to the local unemployment office and all that kind of stuff. And so I do all that. And as I finished filling out the paperwork, the woman at the uh unemployment office tells me, said, it'll be up to two weeks before you get your first check from unemployment. And I told her, said, I'll have a job by then. And then that week. 11:17 At the end of that week or the beginning of the next week, think it was a Tuesday, actually, the NBA season got canceled. I remember that for some reason. I was like, like suddenly it was all over. I was like, there's no chance of me getting a job. They're shutting everything down. I'm going to be stuck at home for God knows how long. And then by late March, they had canceled school. And so the kids were at home. My wife was, was, she stayed at home and took care of her mother. And so she was already homeless. All of sudden it was. 11:46 you know, us four plus my mother-in-law at our house. And as that sort of moved forward, I realized like in the moment that it's kind of a gift. I was like, I'm going to be at home for an undetermined amount of time, but it could be months. And so I was like, how many people when they're in their early forties and their kids are, you know, at that point eight and 10 or maybe younger than that, but around that, like who they get 12:15 that amount of undivided time where can't really go anywhere hardly. And so it's just us sort of hunkered down and I realized, I was like, this is an opportunity for me to like invest in my family in a way that I don't know I would have a chance to do before. so as that happened, I just made it a point to, like for instance, you know, I had breakfast with my wife every morning and I 12:43 played with the kids, played lots of uh like a Roblox, like zombie games, this is they were into at the time. So we just played hours of that. And then my dad, I'd go to my parents' house, my dad had a wood shop and I was like helping him build stuff with wood, actually built this desk that this computer sat in on right now, you know, out of just some wood laying around at my dad's shop. And so I was investing in all these things and I realized like, don't, I'm not, this 13:14 fills me up in a way that, you know, the previous jobs never did. But as we came out of COVID, I applied for a job at a local healthcare center and they offered me the job, but I was like, you know what, I don't want to go back to doing, you know, eight to five, five days a week, that whole thing. So I was like, look, can we do a remote thing, a hybrid thing, something? Cause I was like, I've got this entire life. 13:44 built up that I'm not going to sacrifice for a job. can figure something else. You know, I can make some money some other way. don't have, I don't, and they were okay with the, uh, the remote thing or the, uh, hybrid thing. And so I worked half the time in an office and half the time at home. And it allowed me to still eat breakfast with my wife, take my kids to school, pick them up from school. I wanted to, if they had appointments at the same time, I could take one. wife could take the other. And so. 14:12 I just built this life that I didn't realize, obviously I realize it was even possible before that point, but I didn't even realize it was a thing that I would want. so that's basically kind of the pivot point was all of these things I was noticing through COVID that I didn't, like, I don't know if I ever would have, you know, spent hours in the wood shop with my dad or 14:42 you know, all that time with my wife and kids. And I know, you know, a lot of people see it as a terrible time. And I mean, it was for a lot of people, but for me, it was a really positive time because it sort of clarified what I wanted in life and in our relationships. so. Yeah. Cause you, I mean, you were on the path that I think so many of us assume is the correct path, the one that we're supposed to follow. And that's 15:11 what we do. It's not, we're of similar age. And I feel like our generation, when we grew up, it wasn't like, it was like you had to go to college, because that was going to give you the job that you were going to pay your bills with. And I feel like now, there's a lot more opportunity for people to imagine jobs that don't even exist. And like, they can create it. Whereas we didn't, I mean, maybe we did, but I don't think we were conditioned or exposed to that. 15:41 enough because so many of us just went down the conveyor belt of doing what you did. And so to even imagine that like, oh, like, you could enjoy your family at the same time as doing like something that serves you in a way that can also pay the bills. It's like that just wasn't even in our vocabulary. That wasn't something we were allowed to do. And so you like many people probably, although a terrible time for the entire world and a global 16:12 devastation. At the same time, it forced a lot of people to pause and reflect. And is this what I really want? And so I think I feel like you're in that bucket of love the people that like, someone forced you essentially by losing your job, you were forced before the rest of us were to like, hold on. Take a look around. Did you have any did you have a moment or any moments in which 16:39 you felt like maybe you lost your identity because your identity was maybe tied up in being an employed individual. I feel like I would. I don't know if I ever felt like I lost my identity as much as like I didn't realize that you could do something that would sort of excite you. And I kept hearing the phrase, Oh, you know, basically my whole life, good job. You get a good job and you know, that's a good job to have or 17:08 so and so has got a good job. so, you know, that just means, you know, retirement and insurance and it pays enough to pay the mortgage. And that's kind of, that was, I was like, got a good job. I'm getting a better job than a better job. That's what you're supposed to do. And there was never real, I mean, there was no dictation like this is what you're supposed to do, but you felt that all the time, you know, that this is what you do. And so I did what you do. So, but when you lost your job, you didn't feel 17:38 worth I'm probably projecting here, but like, would feel like I don't have a job like all my worth quote unquote worth is like, I can't show anyone that I'm worth it anymore. I mean, it sounds like you pivoted to show everyone that you were worth it as a family member, but you didn't have any of those moments of like, Oh crap, who am I? I don't know that I felt I did feel this idea that people are going to think. um 18:06 you know, kind of a flake or a loser or whatever. If I don't get back on the horse and get a job real quick. And then a week later, the whole world shut down. Right. And so that was sort of cover, you know, so I didn't, it didn't seem like that. And they gave me some runway to figure out what to do. But yeah, there was this moment of like, if I don't, like I don't get back, get another job soon, people are going to be like, maybe does he really want a job? really want to work that hard? You know, so that, that part was, was for sure there. 18:36 And you're kind of like, no, I don't. kind of like staying at home with my family and doing the fun things. Correct. It's to pay the bills, but. That is exactly right. Yeah. don't, no, I don't want to work that hard on stuff that I don't want to do. I want to work really hard on stuff that excites me. Yeah. Did you not enjoy graphic design or you just didn't enjoy designing the things in corporate marketing and the things that you were forced to create? I didn't, there was always. 19:03 There's always pieces of it you like and always kind of saw it as like a puzzle that I'd be putting together or like a math problem I was solving. And so there was always something fun about solving a problem. But it was at that point, I had been doing it almost 20 years. And it was this, the same general thing. There's not a, there's not a lot of ton of room to move up and I'm in a smaller area. And so that was even, you know, 19:33 pressing on even more like there's kind of nowhere to go from here. There's only so many flyers and brochures you can make, right? Correct. And there's always, I expanded to do, you know, to video and that sort of stuff, but still is, it's still constraining in a way that, you know, when it's your own thing, it's just not. So now I get, I get to write and I get to do the graphic design for my own stuff and it excites me because it's mine, you know, that sort of thing. so. I don't know how to ask this question without just asking it, but were you, uh 20:02 a pretty present parent and family man before, or do you feel like that was just like secondary to your job? I think a lot of people are married to their job and like kind of, I have this family as well, or do you feel like, and the reason I asked that is I'm curious how big of a difference it was for you to really immerse yourself in the day to day or the all day today. You know, I thought I was, is the best answer to that. But with 20:28 hindsight, no. And with some stories from my wife, no, I was not near as present as I thought I was. And there was a lot of things that, for instance, that my wife shielded me from that because she was like, he's working, he doesn't need to deal with this. And now I can deal with those things. And she doesn't have to feel like she's got to, you know, keep everything at home, you know, keep the ship right so I don't get, you know, so I can focus on work and all that. Yeah. 20:58 Did you find that being at home though, like you were able to, cause it was a scary time, I think, you we're watching the news where the data was always like about people dying, you know, and so it's kind of a scary time and everyone's kind of forced to be together a lot more than maybe they were used to. Did you find that challenging or did you find it enriching? Cause I think there were a lot of families that broke up because of being home together. 21:27 I found it really uh enriching and fun and my kids and wife probably got sick of me like wanting to do stuff with them and be involved in there. Like, can we just watch TV for a second, man? And you chill out. I was like, let's play a game. Let's play, you know, let's cook dinner together, whatever. I mean, it's still kind of, it's like that now where they're like, can we just go get on the computer for an hour and you leave us alone, man? I'm like, yeah, go ahead. 21:53 Well, I mean, it makes sense if you weren't able to do that normally all the time. And now you have all this time and now you know how valuable it is and how enriching it is for you. Exactly. So you can be a little selfish for yourself and then your kids are like, get you right. They'll check you. That's how kids go. So it did it. Do you find your relationship like with your wife different now than before? Is there a difference because you spent all that time together? I think so. 22:21 I think you don't have to tell any dirty secrets, but. it's just, well, before that point, there was a point where both my wife was like, she was stay at home mom and she took care of her, her mom for a long period of time. But before that we both worked. And so it does feel much more connected than it was at the point where she worked. But yeah, I realize it's, I'm investing what's happened. 22:48 at during that point was actually invested a lot more purposely in our relationship. Like we had a great relationship. We communicated well before that. But after that point, I was like, I shouldn't actually like read about, you know, how to communicate and how to have a great relationship. you know, I should, so I watched videos. We went to a marriage seminar, you know, just, and it was like an investment that I hadn't made before, which kind of leveled it up even, even better. 23:19 What made you want to be so intentional? I feel like that's a big lift. Yeah. Well, it's just, I guess I realized before the COVID shut down that like everything was haphazard. It wasn't like it didn't work sometimes, but no, but it was just sort of, you know, a broken clock being right every once in a while more than anything else. And so was like, if how much better could this be, how much better can my relationship with my kids be my wife, my work, you know, if I actually 23:47 invest in it purposely and realize, you know, the things that are working, I can make better things that don't work. Obviously, I can make a lot better than things that don't really serve me at all. I don't have to do anymore. But if you're not intentional about it, some of those things that don't serve you just end up in that pile with everything else just because you haven't intentionally removed them. Yeah, there's that that reflection piece is so big because you have I guess you have the time and space to think about how you're approaching things because I feel like 24:17 I don't know. I don't think it's customary for maybe now in 2025. I think people are doing it more because people are talking about it more and people are trying to be better humans in general. I feel like, you know, growing up, we weren't I don't I didn't have any models of people in my life that were intentional about like self-improvement or these kind of did you have any any models in that way? No. And part of what happened, the 24:45 Like I was in sort of during COVID, I was kind of in this, this mode of self-reflection of realization and all that kind of hitting me. And then the job I got after COVID that like I spoke about was a hybrid position. The owner of that company was really into self-development. So was like really into Tony Robbins and guys in that area. And he had a requirement that you read one book a quarter. They were all, they were all, you know, self-help books. And so. 25:15 It isn't like I didn't know self-help books exist. I'm sure I had read some, you know, one or two or whatever, like a lot of the stuff he was, you know, pushing for us to read, had a whole, like all in the reading, it really vibed with me. I saw I read, you're supposed to read four, I probably read eight a year, you know? And so in that, worked there two and a half years. So I probably read 20 books about, you know, just self-improvement, relationship improvement, all sorts of different areas of general self-development. 25:44 And it got me really excited about that in general. And that's almost all I read now. I have to make myself read fiction books every once in a while just to break it up. I'll read too many of those books and never actually like process and put them into motion if I don't take a break and read something else. so- if they're opposing the different protocol and different things. No, I mean, I think that's great because you had- 26:08 I wouldn't necessarily define them for you, but like someone that you could model, like you recognized maybe their behaviors or things that you were like, oh, okay, maybe there's something to this. And then being forced to do it, like me being forced to make a podcast, you you kind of fall into it you're like, I didn't know that I would like this, but I do. And I think it's gonna serve me and the other people around me. That's the benefit of what you chose. Well, I guess with the podcast too. 26:37 Well, and what's funny is there was, you know, there's this attitude of people outside of this company. They're like, oh, they make you read, they make you give book reports. And that's so high school-ish. And if this was 10 years ago, I would have been one of the people saying that like that when they, I mean, I would have taken the job, I'm sure, but it would have really turned me off to be like, I have to read these book reports. Can somebody else write them for me and all this sort you know, and can I pick a book I've already read and just. 27:07 You know, whatever. Get the Cliffs notes. Right. But at this point in my life, was like, I was really excited about that. I was like, get to learn and grow. Yeah. That's, is that a new, were you uh a learner, like a absorber of things growing up or were you? I was always sort of a observer, for lack of better word. I would notice stuff other people would notice and, uh 27:36 I still do it. My wife will be somewhere and I'll be like, did you see that guy that was doing this? And she's like, how did you see that? I'm like, I just noticed everything. And so I've always sort of observed things. But you weren't necessarily seeking out ways or books or things before. And now you're like, I've seen the impact of just spending more time with the people around me. Like, maybe I could level this up and like filling up my cup more than you ever had. And so you're like, how much? 28:05 How big can my cup get? Or how much can I put in my cup? What would you say is like the previous version of you, which was probably a fine human and a fine father and a fine husband and do in life the way that you felt was the right way. What would you say is the biggest difference between this version of you and that version? Probably the, probably the self-awareness. mean, in the self, 28:34 examination kind of, and I think that's probably it. Just I'm aware of, like I'll have an experience and then I will review that experience and be like, know, and like, how can I take that forward? And, you know, what did that mean to me, you know? Good on you. You did a book report on yourself. Right. Well, like if I didn't like it, I'll be like, well, did I not like that because I 29:04 pose that or because it made me uncomfortable because it told me some truth about myself. And I will go into experiences that made me uncomfortable. I like, I'll like, like if something happened today, I would do that. But I'll look back and be like, man, when this person said this 15 years ago, it made me feel this way. Is it because it turned out to be right? And I didn't think, you know, that's what I will do. exactly. Plenty of experience. I'm like, you know what? 29:32 They were totally right. I just, that's why it made me mad, because they were right and I knew it. Yeah. And you probably knew it at the time too. And you were just bad about it. Are you a glass half full or half empty kind of person? 29:46 I'm still little bit of a pessimist to be honest with you. Like I don't want to be, you know, and I'm always like, I should be, and I will do that. Like we were talking about reflection. will, I will be pessimistic about something and later on I'll be like, that's just, that's really not a good attitude or, or I'll think that about people. lot of, know, I'll say, Oh man, this, this person said this and because they're this type of person. And I'll be like, no, they're probably not. It's probably me projecting that on them. I don't even know them hardly, you know, and 30:15 What does that say about me to think that about the omen? So I do a lot of that now in a way that I never did before. And so I think I'm becoming less of a pessimist, but I still have to fight it. Yeah. Well, mean, it's so much of it is the intention though. Like you said, like if you're intentional about it and you know your self-awareness that you know your tendency is to be a little bit more negative, then if you're intentional about it, then at least you're kind of moving in the right direction. 30:44 And I have another question. Are you someone that likes to take risks or are you more like risk averse? I'm generally more risk averse, but I am more open to trying things than I used to be for sure. Or I'm very much like, I might not like this, but let me try it and see if I can figure out what I don't like about it and what other pieces of it I do like. 31:14 Like I'm not particularly excited about like social situations, like large groups of people, things like that. But recently me and my wife have gone to more like our local church, gone to like couples things. And these are things both of us are uncomfortable with, but we go to them just- To be uncomfortable together. Yes, to be uncomfortable together, to experience that and be like, most of the time, know, nothing is as bad. 31:44 in real life as it is in your head. And so you go to have those experiences and you're like, Hey, that wasn't that bad. You know, I'm, can occasionally, you know, make a complete thought in front of people. Like we can go back to another one of these or like the marriage, like the marriage retreat. is not something that I would have ever done for so many reasons. I'm sure. Yes. Like I said, four or five years ago, I wouldn't have done that. And I was really, I was really excited about going, know, the 32:13 taking the workbook home and reading it and practicing the stuff that they laid out and all that kind of stuff. That's great because I think so many people think of like, oh, you're going to a marriage retreat. Like there's like this negative connotation because nobody knows what they actually are unless you've actually gone to one. Right. And so I think that's huge because that just shows like intention. We're not going because there's problems. Well, I'm just projecting here. We're not going because there's problems. We're going to make it even better. Exactly. 32:41 And I think people just see it like, oh, that's the final straw. Is that how you would have thought five years ago? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was about to say, you see the same attitude with like self-development books. And I would have had that same attitude. Like, why are you? Yeah. You'd be like, why do you need, why do you need that? Or like, uh, like there's an old like George Carlin joke about like, if you, if you, if you have the motivation to buy the book, you don't need the book kind of thing, which I, you know, I it's joke, but I was like, that's what I used to kind of believe. I'm like, 33:12 You care enough about, you know, self help. You don't need to buy the book because you already care. But I get, you know, that was my attitude way back when. But now I'm like, give me more of those books. Where's it? You know, where's the next one I can read? Yeah. I mean, something similar. When I first started this podcast, I really I'm probably I'm sure I did, but I I had not encountered people talking about coaches as much as I have through this podcast, which is it's neither here nor there. But at first I was like, 33:42 Like in the same sense of like if I do you need a coach like you can like why do need a life coach? You're living, you know, and and someone and it sounds so simple, but maybe someone listening will it will connect with them but like People that are in sports have coaches and they go to people to help them get better at things It's not they're going because they don't know how to do it it's just they're trying to get better to level up and they've gone as far as they can on their own and 34:10 It's like, yeah, if we equate it to like a sports coach, I think it makes so much sense. But again, I think maybe not so much now, five years ago, coaches had a different, like there was a different connotation that came with it. And so I think that's probably how marriage retreats are seen then versus now. like the sports coach is a good analogy. Cause yeah, if you, for instance, you know, if you're a quarterback in the NFL, they have all sorts of coaches and they have like a mechanics coach and a 34:38 throwing coach and it's just like, they're just trying to get one or 2 % better. Like they're on a scale of one to a hundred, they're already like a 94. They're just trying to get to a 95 with this coach and they're trying to get 96 with the next coach. And you know, and you're like, why are you already at a 94? Why do you need to go any better? And it's like, cause they can see, you know, they had the vision to see if I could just get this little piece right and I can't do it by myself. But if I can get somebody who can have a 10,000 foot view and be like, you know, you just tweak this one little thing. 35:09 you'll get 1 % better. You think of some of these like really famous, amazing singers and performers have vocal coaches and you're like, you can sing better than anyone I know. You have someone. So I think there's something to be said of just like thinking like, let's stop and stop judging. And like, let's think about why people are seeking these out. 35:33 Well, and you know, like that, that coach that, you know, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes has like, they can't throw the ball better than those guys. That vocal coach can't, you know, sing better than that singer, but they can see something they can't or, and, or they know how to fix something that they just don't. Right. And that, that's what any 35:57 Good coach does. It's just another perspective, right? It's another perspective with someone that might know something a little bit more than you or at the same level, you know, sometimes we're stuck in our own heads and we don't like your whole comment about looking back 15 years at something you did and you were, you know, in your head at the moment, you're like, that's their problem, not my problem. And now you're like, well, that was my problem. Exactly. And I was probably making that a problem for them. 36:23 because, know, so it is, all about perspectives and getting these different looks on things. And I love that you are like, it sounds like you're leaning pretty hard into becoming a better you. Yes, exactly. That's always what I'm thinking is like, what can I, I don't know that I think about it in like, the micro sense. Like I think of it more like, how can I get better? Like, 36:52 I guess I don't think of it like I was describing with the quarterbacks, like I'm going to get 1 % better at my marriage. I'm just think of it more like, here's another perspective I'm going to dive into. And I bet I'm going to look back at it a year from now and realize I took some small piece from that book or from that retreat. I read that productivity book and 99 % of it I didn't take with me, but that 1 % I took made a difference. But I'm not going to notice that difference in real time. I'm going to notice it looking back. 37:22 And so that's part of what I'm thinking is I'm just gonna get as much information as I can and try some of it, see how it goes, see what feels comfortable. If it doesn't feel comfortable, I wonder why. You know, I think that too. I'm like, man, I don't like doing that. Why don't I like doing that? These people do this and they're successful at it. Maybe I should just stick with this a little bit, And- Is anything blown up in your face with like your new like- 37:47 exploring of different ways to do things? you encountered it? Because I feel like we all have, but... One thing I've tried in multiple ways, multiple times, but I still struggle to get up before six o'clock. I read a book recently about talking about getting up at five o'clock in the morning. I'm like, I'll try that. I'm like, I just can't do it. And I feel like, and part of it's going to bed late, but so I'm like, I read a book about going to bed this particular way and waking up. 38:17 particular way and it's like it just stays the same it feels like but yeah do you lean into like meditation or journaling or any of those things I know a lot of people I I'm too type-a for both of those I've never journal too much I mean I've tried it off and on and it almost feels almost to have have to have like it too rigid which almost makes me feel like this isn't the point but I really do like meditation like that I literally got back on it this week Monday 38:45 But there was a time, I probably didn't meditate for six or eight months before this, but there was a time where I had what, I went through Headspace and did a bunch of stuff, then used the call map, you know, used and found some free stuff. But yeah, I mean, I meditated. Five, you know, four, three, four or five days a week for a year or two. did you notice the difference? Yes. Oh yeah. Like I felt so like you really did make me feel calmer and. So science does work. 39:14 What do you mean? Every once in a while. Wow. can't. I I'm one of those people. And maybe you were like this when you first started where I'm like, am I doing it right? You know, like and you're just like overthinking and you're like, well, this is not calming me down. This is just stressing me out a lot more. I don't think I'm alone in that. But I just have to be like you and push myself to do it a few more times so that I can finally see the benefit. But to stubborn. 39:44 sleep was one of those things that I struggled to go to sleep and then that frustrates me because I can't sleep, which makes it even more difficult to sleep. Yeah. You're like, why am I not sleeping yet? And so, and then I'm like, I'm supposed to get eight hours of sleep, right? You know, seven at the least, I got to get, got to get to bed. And so I could imagine like transferring that idea to, to meditation and you're being like, I'm not supposed to think about stuff, but I'm thinking about stuff and I'm ruining this whole thing by thinking about thinking. It's yeah. 40:10 We're our own worst enemies. And I think if we could just all chill and relax a little, maybe you'd be able to fall asleep a little quicker and I be able to meditate and we'd be in a better space. But, you know, we're all on our own journeys. And just like it took you X amount of years to find this more intentional approach to your relationships and what fills your cup and being a better you, not for other people, but for yourself. You know, we'll all get there if we're willing and wanting to. 40:39 create a better life? Do you feel like your life is quote unquote better now or is it just different? I think it's I think intention is always better. So yeah, I think it's better. Like if you're like if you're doing what you're doing on purpose, there's some ownership of that that I think it always makes your life better. And so yeah, I feel like I'm like in charge of my life now if that in a way that I wasn't before less autopilot m more like let's take a left. 41:09 like on a trip instead of just like go the same way every time. Well, and it's funny talking about taking trips. we went on vacation a month ago and we're like, well, it's just like you used to, know, the kind of the stereotype is we have to, we have to make it with a certain amount of making good time, you know, the get up at some ungodly hour to drive to get there by, you know, 10 o'clock or whatever and no stops, no bathrooms, that sort of stuff. And this time it was very much like, let's just, you know, 41:38 Let's just have fun with this. Let's, you know, this, uh, we stopped at this, you know, amazing bakery that didn't even know was there. Like, let's see what we just, we stopped, went to a gas station. We're like, let's see what's around here real quick. And so we spent, you know, just an hour detour in this little town on the way to the beach. And, but no, before that, I've been way too concerned about, you know, getting there on time and. It that we got to do that, know, and yeah, I mean, you were working. 42:07 40 plus hours a week. So I wonder if part of that plays in like, I need to get as much time in X place where I'm going to the beach, I need to be at the beach for extended amount of time, because I'm going to be at work the rest of the week. And I think maybe now, do you are you working full time somewhere else? Are you building for yourself? 42:32 I'm working for myself. uh Between the newsletter and I do freelance graphic design. Okay. So you make your own hours and... Exactly. Is that harder? It can be for sure. It's kind of like an off slate between working way too much and taking the day off. It's usually not, I'm sitting down at 8 o'clock and working till noon, taking a lunch break, then working 43:02 you know, the five or it's like on Monday I had some plan, but this happened. So we're like, I will just push that off all to Tuesday and, or I'll get really excited and into something. And my wife left to be like, are you going to come eat dinner anytime soon? But then you also now have this responsibility that maybe you didn't have for the first 40 years of your life of like, you're responsible for bringing in business to fund your stuff versus. 43:31 showing up somewhere, doing, making a bunch of flyers and brochures and things that are really boring, but still getting a paycheck no matter what the tasks are. Do you find that part challenge? I think that would stress me out the most. There's definitely some, some stress to that for sure. And you always have to, I mean, part of me is like, I have to always be trying to find customers, but like in corporate marketing, 44:00 It was very like, people were, they were very paranoid actually. uh And so I lived in sort of this paranoid environment where they're always worried about the competitor and uh you know, they saw, we ran an ad, we were going to run this ad and this company ran a very similar one. Did they have some inside knowledge about the ad that we were going to run and all this sort of stuff. I was like, so I'm trying to have as little of that culture in what I do now. 44:29 And so part of me just thinks I'm just going to do a good job and eventually the people that I resonate with will show up and want me to do that work for them. Yeah. So what is like? 44:40 What is a majority of your business involved? Like, what are people coming to you for that you're producing or creating or doing for them? It's mostly it's turned out to be nonprofits. OK, so graphic design for nonprofits is most of it graphic design and then the writing is more side. Correct. And so the and I do some social media management. 45:08 looks at lots of graphic design for, there's a local animal shelter I do a lot of work for. There's a local, what do call it, community downtown beautification type thing that I do a lot of work for. And actually the previous company that I worked for that I was telling you, the owner, he had a whole like a book reading program. He actually has a self-development program as well. And so I do a lot of their, a of their, they have a journal. uh 45:38 planner type thing. And so I do all of that design work and so that's cool. So that doing those kind of things is do feel that you're your best and most aligned now because it's like nonprofit stuff that like feeds feeds you differently than kind of that corporate approach to like just beating out the competitors but rather there's a purpose behind it. It feels like that would be. Yes. It's much more enriching to do that kind of stuff and 46:06 It's much more like if, I mean, you know, if there's a somehow a competitor nonprofit, it's all kind of feels like the same. You know, like there isn't this paranoia, like they've stole my idea or they beat us to this thing. It was like, we're all part of this thing together when you're nonprofit work and stuff like that. so, it's a different feeling for sure. So you feel just in all aspects of your life, you just. 46:34 probably feel more fulfilled of a human these days than say pre-COVID. So much more aligned with my values with what I did. For sure. Did your job go away because COVID was coming down the line or was it just a happenstance that it happened at the same time? I think it happened because of COVID, but it was in the automotive industry. And so I think probably since it already was going on in China, 47:03 I think it was affecting a lot of the, I know it eventually affects a lot of the computer parts that go in cars and things like that. And so I think that was happening then. so they had a really bad November and December and into January. And so that was, but I think that's probably, they were feeling the effects of it before. Yeah. And they didn't know we were going to shut down. Right. Yeah. So if you, if you, this version of you, this more intentional, this 47:32 show up in the world differently, or maybe just more aware of things. If you could talk to that version of you, maybe not right before COVID, maybe give me a year before COVID, you're going to your job, you're just kind of checking the boxes. Is there anything that this version of you would want to tell that version of Clay, checking those boxes and just showing up daily on autopilot? You know, I would tell him that 48:00 I would tell them that the intention is really what's going to matter. Like, to be intentional. That all these things that are happening to you, if it's good, it's just sort of lucky, you know? And so, invest more intentional time in the things you care about. Yeah, or find the things that really light you up. Right, because it's not like I cared about my wife and kids any less before that point. 48:30 Right. It's just, but I, you know, just, it makes sense that you should invest mostly in the things you care the most about. And I wasn't doing that. And I wasn't doing that because I wasn't, didn't have that thought process. Right. It wasn't out of like, It was out of, it was just, that was the way that your life was going. And I think sometimes we don't slow down to even like pay attention and, and invest in the things that maybe we 48:59 don't even know yet if it would light us up even more, but maybe we should. And it's not possible. You can't travel back in time and tell him. maybe all of these things, I don't know if you feel this way, maybe all these things that unfolded of losing your job before COVID and then COVID lockdown happening and all these things brought you to this version of you in this way. Because had you not lost your job, maybe you never would have met that boss that forced you to read all those books. And do you feel that way? 49:29 Yes, I definitely feel like I'm in the place I'm supposed to be in, which means the things that happened to me were supposed to happen to me. Yes. So I definitely feel like this would not have happened without, there's no way I would have stopped without COVID forcing me to. So I know that. 49:49 you would have been on the conveyor belt probably still feeling successful and feeling like you were doing the right things and probably were doing the right things. But maybe it just didn't feel as valuable as it does now. I think that's really relatable. think especially with COVID, I think it forced, I should say not COVID specifically, but the lockdown and the pandemic experience that we all had. think a lot of people just stopped and were able to reflect on what they were doing. 50:17 if they liked what they were doing and kind of move forward in a way that maybe felt more aligned with kind of what their heart wanted to do and not what society was telling them to do. Because I think we all realize like, oh crap, like everything we had could go away in a second. Exactly. And you realize that the things that uh you want, like somebody else is doing them. 50:47 And so there's a way to do them, you know, and they don't have, and maybe they don't, maybe doing that wouldn't make you the amount of money that you're making before, but how much money do you need? And is that, if you could make X amount from doing something you really love, would that be worth it? Yeah, but we weren't brought up that way. We weren't taught that in school. That wasn't the road that at least our generation was like kind of moving towards intentionally. 51:16 I think it's more so now. think the last maybe 10, 15 years people were or see more and there's more possibility or it feels like maybe I'm just jealous. But I think it's I think it's a you just didn't know. And now and now you had the opportunity to sit down and go, oh, now I know because now I have to do these things. Also, real. I mean, like you can sort of the previous generation had 51:43 You know, you got one job and essentially you had that job. Maybe you made one job change, but it was the whole time. And you realize now, like, you don't, I mean, you can work for whatever, five or six years on some job. And then you can essentially take a sabbatical basically, you know, and work some, you know, do some gig jobs or whatever and do something you really love for a little while. And it's not like that's got to be permanent either. Yeah. There's a less of a, there's less of a stigma now too. I think before, 52:13 There was a stigma if you weren't at a job for a long amount of time. But now the companies don't have like employees and employers don't have the same loyalty that they did 50 years ago to each other. So I think that probably helps helps us create our own lives. So curious if people are like want to know more about you, connect with you, read your stuff, get your services like what's the best way to find you get in your 52:43 Orbit. Campfiregentleman.com is where everything is at. That's where my newsletter is hosted. That's where some of my blog posts, that'll get you to social media if you're interested in following me there. But yeah, everything is at campfiregentleman.com. And is that Gentleman or Gentleman? Gentleman. Gentleman. Singular. Just you. You're a I'm a gentleman, yes. 53:10 And if someone listened to your story today, they're like in the place that you were, and they're like really resonating with what you said and want to reach out to you and share their story with you. Are you open to that? Absolutely. I love talking about lighten me up when I get an email. It would somebody telling me what's going on in their lives. And I feel so inadequate to answer whatever problem they're dealing with. And usually. 53:39 I just tell them because I'm, and I mean it, that that's amazing that you're going through that and you're still going. You know, just, just the fact that you're willing to, to go forward and keep, you know, keep trying to scratch out a life after some of this stuff you've been through. And usually they're like, thank you so much for listening to me. 54:05 And it's just amazing how many people out there just feel like nobody's listening to them. And so I love getting emails from people and, like I said, just connecting with them and it's great. It's amazing. no, I highly encourage people that are listening to if you're, if anything that Clay said, like clicked with you, even if it was something that you think is so like inconsequential and throw away, like reach out because 54:32 There's something I've realized, I always knew the power of story, but I didn't realize the power on the different parties to the story, like the person telling it, there's so much power in just being heard and being validated and being able to talk to someone. There's so much power in us being able to like hear your story and see ourselves in it in this like mirror sense. And then there's like the outside listeners that aren't part of the conversation that now are hearing. 55:02 the back and forth and learning from that. And so I highly encourage, and not just Clay, but anybody that you hear their story or something connects with you, just connect with someone else. It'll bring us all together a little bit more than just staying in our own silos. So, you know, thank you for sharing your story in this way, Clay. Thanks for having me. I enjoyed it. I am always honored and always not surprised. That's the wrong word, but it's always amazing to me how 55:31 every time I hear somebody's story, I see a little part of me or something that I've done is validated. so I'm just so honored that people reach out and want to be a part of this show. So thank you for doing that. And so honored that people listen to the show. And after almost four years now that people are still listening. So thank you all for that. And I'm going to say goodbye right now. But I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Thanks again, Clay. 56:11 For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com