Giving Grief a Voice: Live Panel from Reimagine.org with Five Grief Podcast Hosts

00:00 Two minutes before we went live for re-imagined session, Giving Grief a Voice, I learned that the Life Shift podcast was no longer on Apple Podcasts. It just suddenly disappeared. So my heart started racing and every problem solving part of me wanted to jump into crisis mode and try to fix it. But I was also sitting in a virtual room with four other incredible humans about to talk with hundreds of people about love, loss, and the stories that shape us. So I took a breath. 00:29 Wiped the sweat off my brow, stayed put, and we started. We talked about the power of sharing our grief out loud, not as something to fix, but as a way to feel less alone. We shared the moments that changed us, the ways creativity and conversation can carry loss, and how honesty opens the door for connection. This wasn't just a panel, it was proof that showing up as we are, even in the middle of our own chaos, is where the most meaningful conversations happen. 00:58 Now without further ado, here's the panel I joined with Lisa Kiefhauer, Tara Acardo, Nina Rodriguez, and Grant Gehry. 01:08 Thank you to everybody that joined us today in person. I'm going to go over some housekeeping before we get to the main conversation. And as you can see, we have our wonderful panelists here. If for whatever reason you cannot hear us or you cannot see us, please let us know in the chat. My name is Nina Rodriguez. I am the creator and host and producer of Grief and Light, the podcast and online platform in support of Grievers. And I want to begin by thanking Andy. 01:37 Engel and the Reimagine team for supporting this event and also to our amazing panelists today. Thank you so much and welcome. And for those who may not know, Reimagine is a nonprofit organization catalyzing a uniquely powerful community of people of different backgrounds, ages, races, sexual orientations, gender identities and faiths and people of no faith. Their gatherings aim to support each other in facing adversity, loss and mortality. 02:07 and to transform life's biggest challenges into action and growth. So we are very thankful for the Reimagine team. If you would like the closed captions, make sure that you click the icon on your menu in the chat, believe, where the three dots are. And if you would like to view and save the full transcript, then go ahead and click on view full transcript and then download the chat. 02:31 This session is being recorded right now. It will be also published in a public platform. So just be mindful of that. And everyone who is registered right now will receive a follow-up email with a link to the replay and a curated list of samples of all of our podcasts together. So you could have that handy as a thank you for attending. And so you could get to know a little bit more about each of our podcasts. Let me check the chat here very quickly. 02:59 Yes, thank you so much, Andy. Andy's putting all the links in the chat. This conversation is, you know, giving grief a voice. So obviously, grief is going to be a topic that comes up as is loss. So I want you to honor your capacity, we may touch on some things that are sensitive. And if that is somehow activating for you, if it's something that brings up a lot of emotions, we want you to honor that. So if you need to step away for any reason, that's perfectly okay. And 03:29 I would like to, yeah, thank you for putting all the information in the chat. I'm just taking a peek at the chat here, Andy, put our contact information so you could get to know everybody's direct email, podcasts, and social media. And we're going to begin with a brief grounding practice because life is lifing for so many of us. And we just want to take a moment to center, ground, and gather. So close your eyes, lower your gaze. 03:57 Try to be here fully present. Take a couple of breaths naturally just to arrive in this moment fully. 04:07 Take a moment to settle in. Feel your feet on the floor. Let your shoulders drop. Unclench that jaw. 04:18 Maybe place a hand on your heart or your lap or whatever feels most supportive to you. And with your next inhale, imagine gathering any stress, tension or worry that you've been carrying today. Breathe that in. And with the exhale, you are going to imagine that you're setting it down just for the moment. Again, inhale gently and make that exhale longer than the inhale. 04:48 setting all your worries down for the time that we're going to be together. As you keep breathing naturally, we will open this conversation with an intention that this is going to be a space of care, curiosity, communication, and respect. A space where we assume positive intent, honor our shared humanity and our unique grief experiences as they are. 05:16 and we open ourselves to perspectives that may be a bit different from our own. I want to thank you for bringing your presence into this shared moment. And when you're ready, bring your attention back to the screen, open your eyes, shake if you need to, and let's begin. So the idea for this event 05:38 came up because I noticed in conversation that a lot of people were naming podcasts as their first go-to resource in their grief, especially in new grievers. And I started noticing an increase, something that kept showing up. And I said, huh, let's talk about that. Let's talk about why this is such a new phenomenon. seems like podcasts have been around. People have been talking about grief, but I have noticed that more people are saying, I got through this very hard moment because of such and such podcasts. 06:08 or I heard this thing that helped me reframe and now I'm able to approach the situation from a place of strength and not sorrow. So I found that dynamic very powerful and I wanted to curate this group and bring us all together to chat about this. We'll also hear about if you're somebody that's interested in podcasting, that's also an aspect of it that I've heard people who want to. 06:35 make meaning after loss through podcasting as well. we're here to delve into that as well. And next you're going to hear from the amazing Matt Gilhoolie. is creator, host and producer of the LifeShift podcast and the It's Okay If podcast. And together we will be guiding this conversation and Q &A at the end. So I'm going to invite Matt to please go ahead and introduce yourself, your podcast and your why. 07:04 Sure. Well, thank you, Nina, for setting this up. Thank you for connecting us. think for those of us that are podcasters, we're really grateful for this opportunity and the things that we get to do all the time. So as Nina said, I'm, guess, the everything of the LifeShift podcast. I also have a little extra podcast that I do that I kind of made for myself and all of it. The LifeShift comes from my own personal experience. When I was eight, my mom died in a motorcycle accident and my parents were separated. So 07:32 everything about my life is going to change. And it really had me thinking about, these line in the sand moments? Do they occur for other people? And how do we grow? How do we change? And so I started the podcast and now I've had the opportunity to talk to like over 200 people about not always grief, but about these pivotal moments in their lives and how we as humans can move through them and at our own timetable, but. 07:58 The goal is, is there someone out there that might feel alone in their circumstances? They can hear one of these conversations and maybe feel a little less alone. So it's just been such a beautiful journey and really a journey that I kind of expected for myself to be so healing. So it's a really awesome medium to have these really deep conversations. So I'm excited to hear from everyone else. if you're here, we'd love to know if you are also a podcaster or 08:26 in this community or you're thinking of being one, because I think that that lights us up as well. So thank you, Nina, for that. And should I pass it on to someone else to introduce themselves? Yeah, absolutely. Whoever wants to go next, go ahead and introduce yourself. And for anybody that's curious, the links were shared to our direct pages and also in the registration page for Let's Reimagine if you want to read each of our bios. But right now prefer that we just all share in our own voices. 08:54 So maybe I'm seeing Lisa next. So go ahead, Lisa. Thanks, Matt, for sharing and Nina and Andy for hosting us. Hi, everyone. I'm really happy to be in community. Two of my favorite topics, grief and podcasting. So this feels like a really important place to be. I'm Lisa Kiefhoffer and I am the host, producer, creator, all the things. You're going to notice the theme. That's the thing about podcasting is you wear all the hats. Of Grief is a Sneaky Bitch podcast. 09:24 I founded it in 2019, so we've been through six seasons now. And it comes from both my professional and personal experience with grief and loss. I've been a social worker for 20 years. And when you work with humans, you work with grief. And I've also was trained in narrative therapy, so understanding the stories we tell about grief and how mismatched they are with our lived experience. I also show up as a widow and 09:52 I became widowed at 40 and then lost a dear friend three years later. And so I also come to the space and also recently survived cancer. So I come to the space from personal grief as well. But the show's mission really has been will be for as long as I run this show is to change the narratives of grief one conversation at a time. To what Nina and Matt said is I think people are hungry. 10:17 to hear the reality of grief because so much what's portrayed in media is not true and that causes us to suffer unnecessarily in our isolation. And so we have real messy, unscripted, sometimes funny, sometimes sweary, sometimes sad, sometimes angry conversations with all kinds of people with all kinds of loss. So not just death loss, but grief that comes from all the losses that we face in our life. And yeah. 10:47 That's how I'm showing up today. Thanks. That's beautiful, Lisa. Yeah, so I am also wear a million different hats. I'm creator, producer, host of the Life with Grief podcast. I started, I guess you could kind of say like my parent brand, you will, Loss has become Gains in late 2019 from there became a grief coach and kind of around like spring of the following year, I was feeling really called to just 11:16 Reach more grievers. felt really called into having more just like very honest, raw, vulnerable conversations around grief and loss. had been something that building that community around me and my own grief has been really cathartic and healing for me. And I was like, I just want to be out there more. I want to be this person for other people. And ultimately the podcast and everything I do comes from the loss of both of my parents to cancer within six months of each other. 11:43 I also lost my 19 year old fur baby. So for those who have experienced pet loss, I feel you, it's devastating. Also went through a very traumatic birth experience. So, you know, and I think a lot of us, you know, we talk more about like than just death. There's a lot of losses that can come from a death, but there's also so many other types of loss out there as well, right? Moving to a new place, friendship loss, relationships ending one way or another. So, you know, my 12:12 podcast and I think a lot of us here, you we touch on a lot of different aspects of grief and the ways that that can show up in our life. And it is just, as one of you mentioned earlier, it is such a universal experience that, you know, deserves love and attention. So for me, it's, you know, it's kind of a mixture of sharing, you know, tangible coping tools and strategies as a grief coach and a sole purpose coach, but also having guests on as well to amplify other people's stories, speak to losses and grief that I don't know personally. 12:42 and just normalize the grieving experience and the realities of what we endure as we're navigating grief far past the first year, right? And what seems normal to most people in terms of grieving. And I have a lot of focus on, okay, how do we carry this with us and live a beautiful, fulfilling life in the wake of loss? So I have twice weekly episodes where I... 13:05 do that and just really want to be an ally for Gravers as someone who just meets them where they're at. Podcasting is a great way to do that. We're all so on the go. know we all carry and juggle so many things. So really just helping people feel less alone and more supported at any time of day, wherever we're meeting people. Thank you, Tara Grant. Hello. Thank you everyone for being here. 13:33 I apologize my voice is a little raspy today. So I've been sick. So you don't get the traditional Grant Gary Baratone voice. But I am a filmmaker and actor. I've pretty much been that for the last 20 years or so. I've always been an actor and done theater. Grief has always been something that I'm 14:02 Interested in I directed the film meet me where I am which is available on Amazon Prime video It's free on to be as well and a few others. So I recommend that to anyone and everyone I I have sort of a I mean, I guess everyone has a unique relationship with grief, but in In 2019 14:30 my wife left me and I felt a lot of shame surrounding the grief I was having with that. around the same time, I was approached to do the film, Meet Me Where I Am. And I found a lot of purpose and healing in making the film because I noticed a lot of people 14:57 in their own grief were saying things that I was also experiencing in some way. And so there was this like common thread among grievers. when the film was completed, well, towards the end of the film, within like, just like a few month period, I don't remember, maybe four months now, my grandmother died, my uncle died, and then my nephew was born. 15:26 all at the same time. And it was just, I kept... 15:33 replaying the whole idea of grief and gratitude can sort of coexist thing. And also it really, 15:46 I learned a lot about anticipatory grief while making the film. And so while I was learning it, while I was doing the film and having these conversations with other people, I was also having this anticipatory grief of my uncle's eventual passing as well. So it was just like this whole crazy realm of all of it happening at once, which kind of just is grief. But after... 16:15 After the film, really enjoyed, every one I talked to for the film, I learned so much from so many people and I just wanted to keep the conversation going, as they say. So I came up with the Where I Am podcast and to continue having these conversations. at first it was just gonna be kind of an extension of the film, a way to promote the film. 16:45 And then I just started interviewing more people. I started interviewing some comedians because I felt that that was like somewhat of an untapped area in grief to have someone like that discuss their own loss or their own experience. So I film all mine in my studio. Sometimes I go to other people depending on 17:13 You know, I have all my own equipment, so it's fun to travel as well. But yeah, I enjoy podcasting. It's so much fun. We learn so much about each other. And I'm just very happy to be here today. So thank you. Thank you so much, Grant. And yes, it is a beautiful film, like Tara said. I highly recommend you watch it as well. 17:40 And I introduced myself briefly, my why was the loss of my brother. I experienced other losses throughout my life, but that one is the one that really cracked me open. He was my only sibling. His birthday was September 10th, last birthday that we spent with him, September 10th, 2019. And he passed away the next day. We had plans for the weekend. We did not see it coming. It was very sudden, He was 32 years old, newly minted. And then, you know, 18:09 pandemic followed and life has never been the same since. And so in my grief, what I noticed was how there's the difference between the lived experience of loss and how other people expect you to be and how quickly they expect you to recover. And I said, you know, these are intelligent people in my life. So I think, and I'm very surprised that they are so looking at me like, what is wrong with you? Why are you still sad after the holidays of your brother not being alive? And 18:35 So that got me very curious about why are we so out of touch with this experience? Why is this added suffering that feels very unnecessary? And in that search, that personal search, I realized that there is a huge miscommunication in these worlds, the lived experience and how we perceive it or society's expectations of it. 18:58 The idea of a podcast came to my mind and it originally started as I call it my Batwoman signal to the world to see where other people talking about this and my personal exploration quickly evolved into something much bigger than my own personal journey. People started reaching out to me wanting to share their stories and then I realized, oh my goodness, people are thirsty for places like this where they could share their honest lived experience of loss and 19:25 each story unlocked healing in my own grief and it just kind of snowballed from there. I quickly realized that this podcast is much needed as are the ones that are joining us here today and many others that are starting to come to light because these conversations are literally changing how we experience loss and how we understand it in the collective. And so that's why we're having this conversation today. 19:52 And yeah, that's where the grief and light podcast was born. So it was a personal exploration and now it's a platform for all forms of grief and loss. I also studied with Megan Devine. She's the author of it's okay that you're not okay. Many people may know her. She's wonderful. So the reason for that and another part I do want to highlight is a lot of people talk about grief from their own experience and that is the experience we know. 20:18 But when you're talking about it publicly in a broader spectrum, we cannot put our experiences as a general blanket statement to how other people experience grief and loss. And one example I'll give is I lost my brother to addiction related causes and I was never upset with him. I love him. I know he tried his hardest to overcome this disease and unfortunately he didn't. And other people, other siblings like me were so angry at their 20:47 sibling for leaving them. And I'm using your quotes here, like for leaving them. And so I said, wow, that's interesting. Why the difference? So that's where the point of curiosity came. And I realized that we have to start at the beginning with what is grief? What does it mean to be grief informed? And why are our experiences so vastly different? And so with those questions, I actually want to reflect that back to the panelists. And I would like to start with Lisa here about her take on what is grief. 21:17 But does it mean to be grief informed? And why are our experiences so different? And then we can go just whoever wants to go after that can go ahead and unmute themselves. Yeah, awesome. No pressure. Let me just answer what is grief here in a nutshell. What is the meaning of life? is the meaning of life? We'll just do that one next. Thank you so much, Nina, for that. Yeah, well, this really is my passion, just piggybacking off what you were saying and Tara and so many other people, which is 21:45 For me, when I think about what is grief and why are we so grief-informed, I think we have to start a little further back, which is this reminder maybe for some of us, is that we humans are storytellers. That is innate into how we've lived and evolved over our lives. We need story to feel connection, to make meaning, to survive, and even to thrive. And which means words make worlds, as a poet once said. 22:12 And one of the things that I discovered when I started thinking about what is grief, what constitutes grief, where does it come from, what does it mean, who does it impact, was that we have a collective narrative. I'm going to say in the West, I'm being broad, although we see this in lots of cultures. We have a collective narrative of grief that is very singular, very narrow, that very much upholds the systems and institutions, capitalism, modernity. 22:42 that is vastly different than our lived experience. So I offer this metaphor as a way to think about how we might start thinking about grief, which is our lives are built by the stories we tell of all of our experiences and a loss, whether it's a death loss, migration, leaving home, catastrophic injury, illness, the terminal diagnosis of someone we love, even a traumatic event. 23:09 It's akin to the manuscript of our lives being torn to shreds and then handed back to us with no instructions on how to live our lives, no instructions on how to rewrite our lives. And that's a really important foundational thing for us to understand because in part, coming back to sort of the grief illiteracy is we are sort of broken open anew when we experience a loss. And I really want to keep emphasizing that to what other people said. It is not just a death loss. 23:39 It's the loss of your sense of safety in the wake of a trauma. It's the loss in your identity after going through a serious illness, relationships, know, ending of relationships, etc. And we are in despair, having to figure out how to rewrite and live into the story. That is messy. That takes time. is, it impacts our cognitive well-being. I saw people dropping in the chat about the grieving brain and the grieving body by 24:09 I'm sure we've all had her on our shows, Mary Frances O'Connor, an incredible researcher. It has a full 360-degree impact on our physical, cognitive, emotional, spiritual, relational well-being. That's true. Regardless of whether you see things like Nina did, which is it's not his fault, or you hold blame or anger, here's where the problem happens in my mind. 24:33 is that our cultural grief illiteracy, which comes from a lot of places, primarily starting in our families of origin, which is a series of questions I ask every guest over the past six years, what's your earliest memory of loss? And how were the adults in your lives modeling grief implicitly or explicitly? And what do you think that taught you about what grief should be? Right? So from our families, from who does and doesn't qualify for bereavement leave, from 25:03 how loss is portrayed in TV and movies, to the policies of research and implementation at a government level. All of those tell a story about what is acceptable for grief. And in our culture, that story goes something like this. Grief happens when someone you're very close to dies. You can feel sad for a while, maybe a little bit angry, but only for a limited time and only if you knew the person well. 25:30 You mostly keep it to yourself if you must see a therapist so that you don't get your grief on other people. And then in an orderly fashion, you move through the five stages of grief like some sort of to-do list and voila, you're better, right? And I think for everybody who's probably joining this call today, you know that is absolute, besides saying my podcast name, I will refrain from swearing, that is absolute BS. 25:56 Part of my mission to do this work, my book, my working with people, teaching at universities, et cetera, is grief is hard. There's no way around that. 100 % of us will experience grief multiple times in our life. Grief is not a problem to be fixed. It's very normal. But the landscape of what I'm trying to tackle, and I think many of the other folks here on this call are trying to do too, 26:23 is close that gap between our lived experience of grief and the stories we tell about grief because that's where the unnecessary suffering happens. And just one more thing before I, I could talk about this all day before I pass it over to other folks, is I want to help people understand that stories aren't just the things people say to you, although people do say stupid things to us all the time, like, 26:50 It's been a year, you should move on. You weren't that close to them. You have another kid. Someone told me literally at my husband's memorial service when I was 40 years old, don't worry, you're young, you'll find love again. Right, I know. People say these things, but it's not just that. It's actually what people don't talk about. It's when people don't ask you the questions. Right? It's when people change the subject when you want to bring up your loved one. It's when people want to compare and compete in the Grief Olympics. 27:20 my grief is more important or matters more than yours. It's when you do or don't qualify for a very limited bereavement leave that is sometimes offered because maybe you were closest to your uncle, right? But you don't qualify for that because we've decided as culture, institutions, that uncles don't matter. 27:44 Well, why does that matter in our story? Because then instead of blaming the systems, we turn it around to blame ourselves. There's something wrong with me for still grieving my uncle's loss. I'm just picking on that. whatever, like the non-typical loss. And that's where we suffer unnecessarily. That's where we should all over ourselves in our grief, right? And that's, think, where the real harm is. cannot, humans will grieve, so we can't change that. So what can we change? We can change 28:14 that story that has happening in between that is causing all of us so much harm. Thank you so much. And it's so true. I saw a question here that I want to actually pass the mic to somebody else if they would like to address it. Robin says, I don't agree with the statement. Don't get your grief on others. That's the statement. This is precisely one reason why some people struggle with grief. They are too busy concerned about how grief will impact others. And thank you, Robin, for that. Absolutely. 28:42 Absolutely. There's so much onus on the on this each griever for how, you know, how how they should or shouldn't act like Lisa said, would somebody like to address that question or that comment? No, if not, I will say in my opinion, Robin, it's more like I grieve a certain way and I would not tell you how to grieve. That's the way I don't know who said the statement, but that's the way that it was intended. Like I wouldn't tell you how to grieve just because this is how I grieve. 29:11 So it's not, don't talk about it actually, it's quite the opposite. That's why we're having these conversations and holding these spaces. So. I'd like to clarify since that's what I was saying. I was explaining that that's how our typical culture treats it. It's like, don't get your grief on other people. You're being a burden to other people. And that's really, think what all of us are trying to push back on is that we are not meant to grieve alone. Right. We don't need to broadcast it necessarily on social media, but we do need and require somebody to talk to, somebody to witness and hold space for our grief. 29:41 Yeah. I also think there's this weird dichotomy of being a human. So many of us are looking for the solution when we do hit these periods to we're like, what do we do? Like, how do I move through this? And I always think of my show and all the wildly different stories that people come to. And they're all different ways of processing the grief myself. It took me like 20 years to grieve the passing of my mother because people around me didn't have the tools. So I was like, 30:11 push that down, push that down until like in my 30s, I exploded, you know, I kind of trying to find the way. But now through these conversations, you hear different things. And so my thought and the reason I bring this up is I think that listeners can hear how other people have processed and maybe it's not the exact process that they want to go through, but maybe there's an idea there. Maybe there's a seed planted that like, oh, I heard so and so say this, maybe I should try this because what I'm doing right now is not necessarily working for me. 30:41 And so I think that's a great opportunity of being podcasters and hearing stories from people we probably wouldn't ever run into in our lives if we weren't doing that, at least for myself. Like, I don't think I would run into half the people I've talked to. So, you you hear these stories and we get to share them. It also helps us process our own grief as we explain our process and what we did. So I think there's this weird dichotomy of like, I want to know the answers, but there isn't necessarily a direct solution. 31:11 for everyone, a blanket solution for everyone to process their grief, at least in my opinion. I don't have the background that you have, Lisa. Nobody has the answer for anybody else's grief, including our own. That's the myth that we struggle with, is we we stumble our way. And I agree with you, Matt. I think that's what makes all of these shows. I've been a listener to other people's et cetera, and the conversations I have. I've learned something from every single guest. 31:39 I also do one-on-one work. I've learned something from every single client I've worked with, right? Because yes, grief is universal, but we all have different backgrounds, different capacities, different coping mechanisms, different community supports, different health issues. So we just can learn in a collective in a way. Just to mention, because Lisa, when you were talking earlier and what you just said, something really struck that struck with me that I've really had to 32:08 relearn and kind of, I mean, this is truly one of the more deeper ways that grief has changed me is my expectations of myself, of other people, of society. I had, before I'd really experienced grief, had a very, I think, I don't know how to word this, mainstream view on grief, right? And then you go through it and then you really get it, right? It's like one of those things you don't really understand until you go through it in whatever way that looks like for you. 32:38 But I think one of the most humbling things for me, and this comes out in a lot of the people that I coach or guest as well, is frankly kind of managing those expectations of other people. And I don't wanna say that we need to like lower the bar and kind of go to some people's level, because I've had some horrible things said to me by people throughout my grieving experience. But to your point, 33:06 honoring the fact that we are all from different upbringings, cultures, places geographically, all of the things. And it has just been such an eye opening and learning experience. Like I hate to say, know, grief teaches us things and whatever. don't know. I don't. I'm not of the belief per se that a loss or a death or whatever happens and we have to learn something or that it happened for a reason. You know what I mean? That's that's a whole nother conversation. And I think a whole nother thing for another day. Different panel, right? 33:35 But if we open ourselves up to it and we just, you know, open ourselves up to like the introspection of like, okay, what has going through all of this, like, what does this look like for me? what have I learned through all of this, right? Not with that being the goal, but just kind of happens naturally. That's definitely something that I've had to cope with and just navigate experiencing. 34:01 And it does humble you. It's almost kind of like going, I'm big on travel and like going to new cultures and things too. And it's, you know, you're kind of thrown into this new world that you've never been into. You kind of don't speak the language, right? And so when we have experienced a loss and now we are kind of learning the language of grief, if you will, there is a lot of learning and relearning that kind of, think naturally unfolds with that, whether or not we even realize it. But that is just something I just wanted to reflect. 34:30 you know, that I've personally taken away from a lot of my experience is just, and it's honestly reflected back in my relationships with people, with my husband, with my daughter, with, you know, people I meet, I just find I'm, you know, a bit more patient, maybe more understanding, more like there's probably more to the surface here. Let me not be so judgmental about something someone might be saying. And it's given, it's just given me a lot of peace, honestly, in my life too. 34:58 release some of that and just know, I'm like, this might actually be more about them than it even is about me. Yeah. I'm going to hop in here for a second. I saw someone in the chat say it's not something we get over. And I think, you know, most of us can, can agree that grief, whether it be a death or a breakup or a job loss, even, you know, I've learned 35:27 that it's something that, no, we don't get over per se, but we move forward with it. It's part of us now. Grief can be part of our identity. And kind of to comment on what Tara was saying about learning, I feel like in my own grief, I learned the most about me. Like I learned the most about myself and who I am as a person and who I think I'm supposed to be. 35:57 And so as I move forward with that grief, you know, I obviously didn't want the grief to happen. And at the same time, I'm grateful for the new version that I've become. And what's crazy for me being like in film and doing these other things and this this whole community of people now doing the film opened me up to all these people that I never knew existed. So 36:26 That's just so interesting and cool to me in a way that I never knew this would be my life now. yes, while there's still a lot of pain, there's also a lot of new and beautiful things at the same time. And I wouldn't want to put that on anyone that's currently in active grief. Like, hey, look forward to all the fun stuff and new people that are going to come. 36:56 I wouldn't be doing my job if I wasn't meeting people where they were at. So I think that's so important too, to just kind of to go off of what Lisa was saying before. Like I think, I think like America has always been about like, we're strong and we're winning and we don't have time for grief. We got to get back to work. And, it's so bizarre because it's not like a small percentage of us have experienced loss. 37:23 You know, it's not like if you're grieving, you're in the minority, like everyone experiences grief at some point and your life is just an accumulation of different losses. And so it's weird that we all experienced this thing. And at the same time, it's like still sort of taboo, even though we're all, we're all out here talking about it. And I think just allowing the space for, you know, we don't, we're not going to have answers for other people per se, but 37:52 I always think like maybe if someone listens to one of our episodes or kind of like what Matt was saying, or if someone watches my movie and they walk away and they go, oh, I think what so-and-so said was like really interesting. I never thought of it that way. You know, maybe I'll try that. was thinking the other day, I was watching movies and TV and someone was grieving and they were like, you need to get out. You need to get out of the house. 38:18 And I remember thinking like, not only did I want to stay in the house, I wanted all the like blinds, I didn't even want people to know I was there. You know, and so it's just, it's such a deeply personal experience that for some reason is not viewed the way it really should be. We're getting better. We're getting better. So we just need to keep at it. Thank you, Grant. 38:42 And I want to highlight something that I always say, grief is not this or that it's this and that it's about living in the and or as Lisa says in the both and of life. And one thing I learned was that the pain is what it is. It's the unfixable, unmovable element. Your person passed your pet past. This thing happened and there's no going back. So we're not here to change that. When we say grief lasts forever or, you know, it lasts longer than we would imagine. It's because this person is never coming back or this 39:12 event is never going to be undone. However, we see the pain and then we tend the suffering. The suffering is the part that is under our control, the part that is dynamic. So in becoming grief informed, having these definitions, being able to discern between what is grief and what is grieving, for example, and I had an episode about this, grief is the normal human response to loss and life altering change. 39:42 And that is a universal experience. But grieving is our relationship to that process. And that changes with time. So I'm seeing, for example, I'm seeing some comments here about, you know, offering hope. And I would say grief work is life affirming work. Grief, talking about grief and loss, especially in a broader context about how it affects us all and individually. 40:11 can help us navigate life more fully, show up more fully, even after unimaginable loss. have met people who have unfortunately lost their entire families and have honestly experienced some things that in life seem unsurbountable, and yet they live a full, joyful, happy life, and they carry their grief with them. So it's that coexistence aspect that I think so many are missing. And that's, excuse me, that's the bridge. 40:39 that we are trying to highlight and to bring more to the forefront of so many conversations because you're absolutely right, we cannot stay in grief, we're not meant to, you know, in the sorrow, excuse me, in the bereavement side of it. But there is, or and, there is a time and space for that, especially those early days. It's necessary and if we spend time there, we actually are more empowered to move through it with agency. 41:07 So thank you all here for your comments. And I would also like to know if anybody here in the audience is curious about the podcasting aspect of it. Are there any aspiring podcasters or do you have any other questions on that side? And of course, about grief, we're happy to talk about it. And I want to pose to the panelists, what has been your experience in handling these conversations when they get very sensitive? How do you handle 41:37 conversations that may be challenging? How far do you push the conversation when somebody is sharing something vulnerable in your podcast? I don't think I would have done the, I mean, I know I wouldn't have done the podcast had I not done the film, but I got very comfortable because I would do all mine in person. I know some podcasters do them on Zoom and so it's a little bit different. 42:07 I got very comfortable talking to these people and I didn't feel like I was interviewing them. But for me, was less about asking questions and more about being present with them in the moment. just like listening to them and kind of, you know, not referring to like the questions I had written down or something. don't even bring questions anymore when I interview people. I just have a conversation with them because a lot of people just 42:37 want a space to have their grief witnessed. And so that's been really helpful for me. When you get to those sort of more sensitive areas, I haven't really, I've encountered a lot of that, it's, a lot of times people want to talk about it because it's with them all day long. And they feel sometimes that they just can't 43:05 tell anyone. And so for us podcasters and interviewers, like giving people a space for that is a positive thing. if they don't want to talk about, mean, they'll, you know, they won't, most people won't share. mean, they know the setup that we're in. But I try not to push people to talk about something. I mean, that doesn't really make sense, especially in a grief situation. 43:37 Yeah, I was a grant. will echo what you said. When I first started podcasting, I had all the questions I had. It was it was more lined up and I as a coach that that's the one benefit I will say to being a coach is I that is literally my job is to actively listen, reflect things back all that. So I think I was I had maybe slight advantage there. But yeah, same thing. I can come into a conversation now. And honestly, I strip it back. I'm like, this is just two souls. 44:05 connecting, having the shared experience of grief and loss. And honestly, what I was saying earlier about like kind of managing my expectations with people, I have such a 30,000 foot view on life and things now because I'm just, you see suffering in all these other places and things too. And I'm like, oh my God, we're all just here trying to live, trying to figure it out. So like, let's hold that space for each other. And I think in terms of like guests and things like that, and maybe like not pushing too hard. 44:31 Personally, this is like a little behind the scenes. I will I usually either know my guest or have a little conversation with them before or just or they'll even tell me like I had one kind of recently whose brother died in a very horrific way and he was like I don't want this to turn into a true crime episode I'll be very honest. Can we just like not go into those details? I don't want it to be about that I'm like great I don't either because our loved one like focusing on loved one lost for a second There's so much more than their death. I could talk about 45:01 my parents' cancer journeys all day long, but they also had decades of life before that. you know, and each conversation looks and feels a little bit different, but I think just coming, and I encourage anybody who's starting a podcast, and I think a lot of us, you know, can relate to this too, it's just, this is very heart-centered, service-centered work. So I think if we're coming from it, from a very genuine place, that doesn't need to be too polished. Like I was definitely worried about that too, even with my... 45:29 Solo episodes, I used to have much more of a script. I barely have a script of anything now, or I just have like bullet points because I want to make sure I don't forget something, right? So I think also with time, you just like build your confidence a little bit too. But I think if you have whatever you're podcasting about, because I think Nina mentioned earlier too, I have a whole separate travel podcast with my husband that I host. And it's like if you're really passionate about it and you're just in it, there's a flow that kind of happens naturally too. And I think we learn to 45:59 trust ourselves throughout the process. And it's a little scary at first, it might not come naturally, frankly, I think it's a lot of practice too. And the more conversations you have, the more solo episodes you might do, depending what your formatting is, you just get more comfortable and also leave the perfection at the door. And I think especially in this space that we're in, I don't think people want the perfection, they want the raw, they want the gritty. And I think all of us can do... 46:27 do that pretty well, not to toot our own horns, yeah, you know, so Nina, want to thank you, Tara. I wanted to specifically touch on that part about when you see that you've crossed into some place where somebody is bringing the big heavy emotions. I absolutely don't push it. And yet I meet them right where they are, because the whole point for me of my podcast, and I imagine it's similar to you is 46:55 Because each of us are facing this in our day-to-day life. We're checking in on our friend, and then all of a sudden we see the big emotions come up. And then we, many of us, of panic and don't know what to do. So I never lean away from the big emotions when they come. I show up and model exactly what I invite all of us to do, which is to really hold sacred space into bear witness. So if it's tears and they apologize, I'll just quietly say, no apologizing for crying. 47:25 Or if they are crying, I'm like, can we just hold a minute for and I'll name their person? Yeah. And I will just let silence be on the show. And I don't even edit that out later. You can if you want to, but you don't need to. I don't jump in for the fix. I check in. Do we want to explore this more? Do you want to go somewhere else? Because how we I feel again, this is also because I've been a social worker and therapist for 20 something years. 47:52 But I feel that how we are in conversation on air is just as much what we're teaching as what is being said. Yes, we're learning from our guests that they like rituals and that helps them, or they like movement and community, and that's helpful. But we're also teaching by modeling what happens when somebody gets really deep into their feelings all of a sudden. And how can we as human beings meet them with that? 48:19 So I don't push, but I do lean in and make space and honor and affirm whatever place they've gotten to in that moment in the conversation. And we can all do that in our personal lives too. Yeah. Totally agree, The part that Lisa's talking about, just like allowing them to cry or have, I think that's so important. I did that in, 48:49 in the film and in the podcast, it's like, that's life. That's grief right there. You don't have to worry about, there's going to be dead air. If you really wanted to edit it, you can. But I remember when I was editing the film, we wanted to just sit with the people longer. It didn't need to be this super polished, grief is this, grief is that, and then you're done. 49:18 it was important to like, because we did experience those moments with them. Like everyone I sat with, had one of those moments. It wasn't just a constant dialogue. So I wanted to show that I honestly, I wish I would have showed it a little more. But that's important because sometimes that's all people need is someone to sit with them. Like you don't have to say anything, you know? So yeah, I just wanted to 49:48 comment on that as well. Yeah. Thank you, Grant. I want to chime in on one thing. I saw so many really amazing questions. You guys, thank you so much. But there really is no like formula for this, right? It all depends on what do you want to put out there? I think I could probably speak for everybody that the more you try to plan these types of conversations, the more wonky and funky and weird and awkward that they are. 50:12 It's more like show up as a human. Somebody said, and I'm so sorry, I missed the chat, but they want to start something about their brother, unfortunately, lost, passed away due to something related to a police incident, or they want to bring awareness to this. Is that enough to be a niche? Absolutely. What is in your heart to say? What is your message? If you have this constant curious mind about a certain subject, a certain angle, go for it. 50:40 And as far as like whether you have guests or not, try both, play around with it, see what happens. Your first iteration of your podcast is not going to be the final iteration. I've changed logos. know Tara has changed. I changed my name for crying out loud. mean, Matt started a whole second podcast. Grant started with a movie and now he has a podcast. Lisa has the book and her practice and the podcast. so it's the beauty of this work is that it evolves with you. 51:10 And the more you approach it from a heart center, from a place of heart center curiosity, the meatier and juicier and more relatable and more impactful that is going to be. And Andrea, see your hand up at the hour mark. We're going to give everybody a chance to come on camera. So I'm not ignoring you. I see you. Would anybody else like to chime in in the last like five minutes? I want to chime in one thing that I learned. I'm very type A type person. So when I started the show, was like, I'm like Tara, I was going to have all these questions and I was going to be so prepared. 51:39 And what I found that does is it doesn't allow me to really listen and really be with the story. And so one piece of advice I tell some podcasters is, you you're having a conversation, you're listening, you think of a question, but your guest continues to talk and tells a story. Allow yourself to forget that question because that's not where the conversation needed to go. And so I found once I was able to be like, Matt, you don't need this set of questions. 52:08 You can have a human conversation. You end up in places that you never expected. I have so many guests that are like, I didn't expect to go down that road, but I'm so glad we did. Right? And so I think if we give ourselves permission that this, like you said, Tara, it's this human to human, soul to soul, like, let's have the conversations we wish we could have had growing up. Like, I know for sure. 52:31 I wasn't allowed to talk about any of my grief. I could only be happy or mad because I was a boy, you know, like I couldn't be sad. I couldn't do all these things. And so now when I have these conversations, I'm like, man, what are the things I wish I could have asked people about their journey? And they might be messy questions. Like they might be something that does not look all sunshine and rainbows, right? Like, but that's real. And I think that's what's important for people listening is you're just like, that's life. Like this is our human experience and it's not going to be. 53:01 sunshine and rainbows all the time. And I will say for anybody starting a podcast, let go of what your audience is going to grow or look like. All your only job is to be curious and authentic and show up in that room. And how it ripples out in the world is frankly beyond your control. Yes, you can do promotions and things, but I think we can all agree as I'm a huge consumer of podcasts. There is nothing more annoying than when a host 53:31 completely misses what the person just says and goes on to their next question. I'm like, go back and follow. they're trying to to their. Because they're trying to stick to their script. And as a guest on many, many, many, many podcasts, that's happened to me before. And I can tell they're like literally reading from a cue card. But as a listener, so your audience, whoever you're trying to build, is going to appreciate your curiosity of your guest. 53:58 And that's gonna like create, that's where the magic happens, almost always. So as a producer of the show, but also as a consumer of shows, start listening to other programs and notice what draws you in, what makes you feel good about the show, where do you feel comfortable or you learn. And that might, you don't have to replicate somebody else's show, cause you are you, but you might start to learn what feels aligned with how you wanna show up in the world. 54:28 Yeah, add to that. Like the rules are yours. Like whatever you want to. This is your show and make it what you want it to be. You can go down so many rabbit holes on the Internet looking like, what should I do to start my podcast? Like, yeah. Oh, God, don't. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't ask. You're rules. Like exactly. Because the more you make it for yourself and what feels really aligned for you, the more likely you are to continue it and to put in the work that 54:57 Because there's a lot of work behind the scenes. know, it's not just we show up, record, and it goes on Spotify. Some people do that. But if you really care, you know, there's some work behind it. So I think if you're really connected to the topic or the service that you're offering, I think that's going to be the best way to create the rules for yourself. Can I just say too, like, have fun also. Like, I don't know about you guys, but like on my podcast, you would think life with grief doesn't sound super like happy. 55:26 number of times that I am laughing with guests or where there's some dark humor in there or we're talking about the it there's we I would say smile and laugh far more times than we are. But we also cry together too. And it's just like, yeah, it's a little bit of a roller coaster. But I think that's what makes it so real. And the very last thing I'll say this very quick. Any imposter syndrome anyone might be experiencing out there. I just want to say this is a testament we all have grief related podcasts. I've never once felt intimidated or 55:55 like, oh, I shouldn't do it because 20 million other people are doing it with both of my podcasts. I could easily think that. But we it's like being a coach as well. People might come to me for something or they might go to Nina or Matt or Grant or Lisa for something else. And we all bring something unique and different to the table. And that's what makes us authentic. And that is like. 56:15 No one is going to have your secret sauce like you will. So I just want to put that out there too, for anybody who's kind of like, oh, I don't know if I should. There's so many. Yeah, there's a lot of podcasts, but there's also a lot of statistics about ones that are actually active versus not. And even if you're in a niche where there's a lot of people, like it's no one can do it like you can. So. Yeah. Thank you, Tara. And to add to that, there are less podcasts than you think, even if the numbers are large, the people 56:43 who start a podcast and do not continue it are, I think the success rate is about 5 % of podcasts who make it past 100 episodes. So the key to success with podcasting is consistency. And what consistency looks like is different for everybody. Like for example, Grant's podcast is I believe once a month, correct me if I'm wrong. Mine is weekly, Tara's is bi-weekly. I'm not sure what your frequency is. I know you're at like 300, so quite a bit. Lisa? 57:13 That's a lot, but it's your capacity. And the most important thing to me is what will keep you consistent? What is the form of podcasting that's going to keep you consistent? Is it a 10 minute quick solo episode that you could do every week? Then do that. Start with that. You could always pivot. Is it an hour long conversation with a guest? Then do that and just play around with it, but stay true to yourself. Don't try to mimic anybody else's work. And to Tara's point about 57:42 everybody having their unique voice. all talk about grief at no point do I feel like we are competing against each other. If anything, we all add on to the conversation and that's the beauty of it. And I wish more people would add on to the conversation from a heart centered space. 57:57 And then maybe even Matt chime in a little bit about before we pivot to questions about how your podcast is not specifically about grief and how you approach that. Yeah, for sure. I mean, the Life Shift podcast is really I went into it thinking it was going to be grief related because that's my own experience. But what I found is that there are so many other things besides grief that people can talk about in which we shift. There might be grief in those shifts. Like you might decide one morning you wake up or you read a line in a book and you're like, that's it. 58:26 quit my job, start this job, and now you have to leave things behind because you've moved into stuff. So I think there's still an element of grief that comes in with those. But yeah, it's wild to hear so many stories and both on grief stories that end up super inspiring and help validate some of my experiences and those pieces. But then also, like these people that I never would have met have now inspired me to like move through things in like a 58:55 jump out of bed and do something different today kind of movement. So the life shift is not like everyone else here of like just grief, but I think there's an element of the human story, whatever that pivot looks like, we probably will experience most of the emotions that come along with it, right? Like I feel like even in my grief journeys, losing my mom, losing my grandmother, pet loss, did not expect that one to knock me over because nobody talks about it. It's one of those things. 59:25 had to be careful because I knew that if I laughed the next day because I watched something on TV, I had to remind myself that was okay because I'm a human and like I can have a range of emotions and I don't have to be sad or I should be sad for this amount of time. So, you know, this show has really taught me a lot beyond grief, but just the human experience is just this beautiful thing that we can learn from each other the more we talk to each other. 59:52 I love it. And we could talk to each other forever. So, but I'm going to go ahead and pivot, you will receive a link with some of our podcasts, like a sampler of each of our podcasts as a thank you for attending. If you're curious about any of the conversations that have been had in each of our podcasts and our different styles. 01:00:13 And we just want to thank you so much for being here before we check out. know Andy has an announcement. I don't know if you're here, Andy. If you are, go ahead and unmute yourself. I am here. Awesome. And I'm here to say thank you, Nina Rodriguez. No problem. Thank you, Matt DeLulli. Thank you, Lisa Kiefhauer. Thank you, Grant Gary. And thank you, Tara Carter. Thank you so much. I am someone who often interviews people and facilitates conversations. 01:00:40 in this format. I'm not a podcaster, but I feel like I've learned a lot from all of you. So thank you. And thank you everyone in the chat. And thank you everyone for your questions. I am here to place in the chat now a link to our survey. We want to hear from you. We want to know what you enjoyed about this event, this conversation, what could be improved. 01:01:10 Um, and within that survey, um, feel free to open it up now and start filling it out. Um, within that survey, we're giving you an opportunity, a first look at something new from re-imagine. It is a safe and inspiring social space to transform loss and adversity into meaning and growth. It's our growth journey platform. want to get, we want you to give it a test drive. Um, 01:01:38 The platform is still in beta testing, but it is built with care. It's a place where you can continue this re-imagined experience. It emphasizes social journaling. So there's writing involved. It allows you to express feelings, track your moods, connect with others. So I encourage you all to give it a try. 01:02:02 And I hope you'll join us for more Reimagine events. I hope you'll all check out the podcasts of our guest speakers today. And I hope to see you soon at other Reimagine events. So thank you. And please show your love for our guest speakers. Thank you so much, all. We really appreciate you. And we really appreciate, Andy, I want to second that from Nina and the whole Reimagine team for holding these. 01:02:31 free community conversations. It's really, really powerful. Yeah. Thank you so much. I love these answers. And I personally want to thank everybody who spoke here and for all the work that you're doing because these conversations are truly helping people in their most in their times of need. Thank you so much. Thanks, everybody. We so appreciate you. Be kind to yourselves today. Take care with your heart.