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April 18, 2023

From Chasing Success to Prioritizing Self-Care: A Life-Changing Journey | Matt LeBris

In this episode of The Life Shift Podcast, Matt LeBris shares his journey of chasing external success, the attention that comes with it, and how he shifted his focus to internal growth.

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In this episode of The Life Shift Podcast, Matt LeBris shares his journey of chasing external success, the attention that comes with it, and how he shifted his focus to internal growth.


"The chase was all about the attention, right? Because I have been programmed over the course of my life too. Get attention through achievement, get love through achievement. So it's not the worst thing in the world because it led me to achieve a lot. So I'm not gonna sit here and say that it was like, you know, I'm a victim to this. It led me to achieve a lot, but it took me some time to realize what was actually happening."


Matt recounts a moment in his life when he surprised himself by winning a startup competition and how he felt a sense of euphoric bliss—this moment served as a reminder to him about the importance of recognizing and savoring personal victories. The conversation also delves into the power of being curious and open in conversations. Matt talks about the evolution of his podcast, Decoding Success, and how he has learned to approach conversations with a sense of curiosity.

Overall, this episode is an inspiring reminder to turn inward and prioritize personal growth as Matt shares the story of how a moment in therapy opened his eyes to how he was in a toxic relationship. It triggered personal growth in Matt and the ability to put himself first.


Matt LeBris is a born and raised New Yorker who inevitably caught the hustler spirit that fills his hometown streets. A Forbes 30 Under 30 Nominee, Matt has worked with Daymond John of Shark Tank and hosts a top 1% globally ranked podcast, Decoding Success, which features the likes of Mel Robbins, Grant Cardone, and many more.


Check out Matt LeBris on Instagram, and listen to Decoding Success. Visit his website at Mattlebris.com.



00:08:55 Living for The Highlights: A Life of Chasing and Acting Out

00:30:05 Storyteller's Breaking Point: Intimate Relationship Caused Anxiety Symptoms

00:46:01 The Choice to Change: Inner Work and External Forces

00:52:11 Putting Myself First: A Guidepost for Dating


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Hello, my friends, welcome to the Life Shift podcast. 

I am here with Matt LeBris. Hey, Matt. Matt. Thank you for this opportunity. 

I'm super excited for this. Well, thank you for being here and, and I will tell you that the way that you reached out to me really still stands out in my head and I appreciate what you did. So, you know, you took the time to one listen to an episode and then film a video just saying, hey and saying, hey, I'd love to be a part of this and you probably know how this feels as a, as a podcaster yourself, but it really just kind of made my day and whether or not we were able to get on a call like this, it was really impactful. So thank you for doing that. We're not even a full minute into it. By the way, it's 11 11 AM. So synchronicity there, but we're not even a minute into the, I just want to let you know, I already have the goose bumps. 

I don't know if you see the hair. I don't know. I'm just an emotional dude, Matt and you got me emotional, just saying that because I appreciate what you do in the world, what you're putting out in the world. And you know, it's an honor to be here with you. 

Furthermore, I want to give you your kudos for the milestone that you have recently hit with this show. I know we were just talking about that briefly before we started recording. But it's, it's a beautiful thing and the work that you're doing, I just want you to remember and bring it into the heart is mountain moving. So, continue doing it, man. And I'm very grateful to be here. 

It's, uh you know, it was an honor to put that video together for you. I just appreciate it. You know, I mean, a lot of people will just reach out, they've never listened to an episode there, just kind of like want to go on their book tour, whatever it may be. And so it just, it just means a lot. And I wanted to publicly say that for everyone to hear that, that you're a good person and, and we can feel that just in, in the way that you did that. So thank you for that. And I want to mention too that you are a podcast or you have, you put out more than 250 episodes and You're continuing on that. 

It's called decoding success. That is correct. Decoding success. I started it back in 2018 and essentially I started it because I had no clue what else to do with my life. Um I had just left the job. 

My first job out of college was with Daymond John of Shark Tank, directly working with him and ego got the best of me at times and a lot of just my own coping mechanisms really got in the way of me growing professionally within that organization. And while I'm still good friends with many of the people I worked with, uh it led me to just leave on good terms, but prematurely for my life and my timeline and I had an intern at the time that was always pushing me to start. And when I say intern, he then became a co worker and he's a very good friend of mine. I talked to him every day and he was just pushing and pushing and pushing to start a podcast. And I'm like, dude, I have a full time job, like, when am I gonna be able to podcast? Like, do you not see me in the office with you every single day? From 10 a.m. to six p.m. If not later, there were times I would be there from eight AM to two AM depending on the project I was working on. So I'm like, dude, you are absolutely out of your mind. And then when I had left my job, I'm like, you know what that podcast idea? 

Sounds pretty damn good, right about. Now. So that's how we uh started decoding success and maybe just share a little bit about kind of the what you, what your goal is with your conversations that you have because you've talked to some pretty amazing people on your podcast and 250 plus episodes. So, what's, what's your goal when you, when you go into a recording? What are you trying to do? So great question. When I first started the show in full transparency, I was very robotic and I'm gonna give you the two polarities of what I did then when I was starting the show and what I do now, essentially the show has the same concept trying to understand what success means to an individual, how they got to that point and how they achieve that definition of success. 

That's always going to be the premise of the show. But with that said, I go into it with the goal now of simply being human, simply being human, right? I go in there with a curiosity. I never go in there with pre scripted questions. 

I, you'll probably only hear me ask maybe two or three of the same questions on every. So which are just fun questions to ask. I have a good time with it. I actually have one here on a post it note above my monitor, which is how would my life be different if I know if I knew what you know? Right. Like that's a really cool question. So at the end of the day, my goal is simply to be human to be ridiculously curious and let the conversation go where it goes. You know, if I ask you, hey, Matt, how are you? And you say, you know what, I've been better. X Y Z is happening in my life. 

We would be talking about X Y and Z. You know, that's just, that's what I do. I'm just a human being that's having a conversation with someone from a screen or in person or whatever the case may be. I love that because I feel like that's been my, my journey as well. 

I feel like that's my goal. I started with questions which I'm sure you understand. And then I found that I wasn't able to be listen. 

I wasn't able to listen. I wasn't able to actively pay attention. I was just kind of like waiting for that next silence and it didn't feel authentic. 

I didn't feel like a human being, like you say, I wasn't able to be curious because as soon as I came up with the next great question based on what they were talking about, I just was like, that's all I thought about. I don't want to forget the question. And so now I'm the same way I don't come in with any questions and I don't really ask my guests too much as you know, because I want to be able to have the conversation unfold in the way that it does. So I appreciate what you're doing for the world and, and the conversations that you've been able to Have are pretty mind blowing. 

You know, and I bet that 2018 version of you would be pretty proud of where you've, where you've gotten to. I don't think the 2018 version of me would have even thought it was possible to be who I am today. Um You know, and I'm not talking about externals, I'm talking about like the internal shifts that were made. So it's really, you know, and I guess having a podcast is a great, like, milestone marker to an extent of like remembering who you were at a certain point. Like, for instance, when you started your show for me, it was 2018, who I was then versus who I am now. Like, I don't know, two totally different people like, and granted that's five years. So I'm 30 now. 

That's when I was 25 years old. And, you know, a 25 year old is pretty young, you know. So is it, it is, I'm in my forties. So I mean, I would gladly go back to mid thirties. 

See, the thing is you look like you're 30. I look like I'm 40. So you're winning in life. But no, I'm only, I tell me about it. 

I'm only messing around, you know, at the end of the day, it is just a number. It's really how you feel. But, yeah, I mean, the internal show, we're drastic, drastic. Well, I mean, that's why we're here. So maybe that was a good unintentional segway that talk about kind of this life shift moment. And what I find interesting, you know, we went back and forth a little bit, an email about kind of really trying to drive down, like what really changed about you. And what I found interesting is lately, I've been having a lot of these conversations about how, you know, they're, they're moments or my guest moments have been like when someone said something to them at just the right moment and what I gather is that's kind of like what you're gonna talk about today. So I think there's gonna be a lot of people that will relate to this. But before we get there, perhaps you can paint the picture of what your life was, was looking like in that time period before what you feel is the most pivotal moment that's kind of shifted things. Yeah, absolutely mad. I mean, a lot of external success, right? And I just want to emphasize what I just said for everyone tuned in external success on paper. Um the trophy room, right? 

All of that was my life and I'm grateful for it. Right. I wouldn't change any of that. I really wouldn't. Um I'm talking about working with Damon John of Shark Tank helping him release the New York Times, bestselling book. 

Dude, I've spoke all across the country, like before I turned 30 years old. I've been to places I'm born and raised in Queens in New York. I've been to Fargo, North Dakota to speak like the snow was above my freaking head. Like, I would have never in a million years thought I would be in Fargo, Jackson, Mississippi. 

I raised $15,000 for frontline workers during the early days of the pandemic. I've built a library in my local community, like I've done a lot in my life, but it was all external. And while at times, you know, those successes definitely made me feel good about myself. 

There was something that really needed to change. So my life before the shift that we're going to be speaking about was really about what's the chasing that's exactly the way to describe it. Chasing. What is the next thing I can do to make me feel good about myself, right? Um Whether it be getting a job getting, you know, going to a Tony Robbins event doing something. It was like I was living for the highlights and the days that I didn't have the highlights I acted out, right? 

I did things that I maybe wasn't proud of or I said things to people that I wasn't proud of or I heard people and while, you know, you mature and things shift, ultimately, what needed a shift in me was turning inward to see what was really going on. And you know, that's exactly what I had mentioned via email. And I just want to thank you because you made me realize the the depth of that moment, right? You said to me, Matt, what was said to you that the shift was, and you said from your personal experience, you thought it was a particular moment. But then you said no, it wasn't that moment. It was what was said to me at this point. And I wanted to thank you because I never once thought about that until you brought it up to me. And when I had realized that for myself, I was like, holy crap. Like this is really the moment it shifted, it's so interesting to be able to do that. 

And, and a lot of times you have to, I think you have to, I don't know how to say this. I think most people that have gone through therapy have the ability or the tools to kind of unpack things. If someone hasn't gone through that, whether traditional or non traditional or working through it, gaining awareness, I think it's harder to pinpoint a moment. I think it's more of like, oh, over this last year, this has changed. But when we're able to pull apart that thing, it's like, you know, like I could have heard that at any other moment in my life and maybe it wouldn't have done the same thing for me. 

I think any time in my life had I heard what my father told me about my mom dying. It would have affected me. But some people, you know, it's a different thing. 

They read a sentence in a book and they're like, if they had read that five years ago, it just would have been another sentence in a book. But where they were in their moment in life, it affected them, you know, in a particular way. But before you go into that, I think what's interesting and what's very common is this chasing analogy of life. And I talked to so many people about this, like I call it a checklist life. Like we were told, like you got to do this and then you have to do this and then this is the next piece of success. 

Now you need a promotion now you need an award. Now you need whatever. And it was, did you find yourself because you say you were chasing the next thing when you got that, that thing, did you even take a moment to celebrated? Reflect on it? It was just like, okay, what's the next, you know, I'll run to the next tree. 

I've made it to the one I wanted to go to. But let me just keep running to the next one. Absolutely. The only time looking back, I'm going to just close my eyes and take a breath here to like, really try and fully grasp this. But the only time I remember myself actually basking in the moment of a win Was 27, 2016. 

I was about to graduate college. By the way, I was on the seven year plan that gave me the four year degree. So just putting it out there, like whatever I mentioned, you know, there's ups and downs, there's different polarities in this life. But um with that being said, I had entered into a startup competition. Um you know, just because at the time, I really thought that, you know, being a founder was the super sexy thing to do for me. And I was a student, put myself in the startup competition and ended up finishing in first place and receiving funds from IBM to start the actual startup. 

We had a prototype and all of that and that is the only win. The only thing I was chasing that I remember I actually celebrated. And the reason I can say that is because this took place in lower Manhattan. And, you know, We were the first team to pitch. 

There were 30 teams, it was a full night. And after I got off the train that evening, I walked home and it was not a close walk. Like I'm, I walked away, you know, like close to three miles home. And that whole walk, I was just like in a euphoric bliss. That is the only achievement I could openly admit that I took the moment and that was just for one night, by the way. Right? Um, the Instagram post and all the likes and all the comments eventually died out and it was on to the next post and whatever else. But that was the only one. 

I mean, looking back when I got my job with Damon, I got the offer letter while I was in Dominican Republic, I didn't celebrate when I was already on vacation. You know, and I'm grateful for that, but I didn't celebrate. I didn't do anything of that nature even when graduating college, like, yeah, I had a graduation party but did I really soak in those moments. The answer is no, I didn't and I could still be better at that, by the way, Matt, I'm not great at that but work in progress here. 

Yeah, I think there is something to be said about it and I don't know if it is society. I don't know what it is. Uh And now with social media, fortunately, I got through high school without social media didn't really exist. 

We didn't really even have high speed internet until college. So, you know, we didn't have to worry about smartphones or anything like that. But I feel like there's a lot of people doing really cool things and the celebration comes in. 

Everyone knows that I've done this was that moment winning that award. Was that, did you feel that that was like more internal, like I'm really proud of myself, not proud of myself because now I can brag about and people will be impressed. But rather I worked hard for this. Yeah, that moment in particular I had a lot of doubt. Right. Because a lot of doubt for numerous reasons. 

Number one, I was nervous is all held to pitch. Right. And I, like I said, I spoke all across the country. 

I'm a very outgoing person. I don't mind being on a stage. I don't have that fear, but there was something about that particular event. It was the course of over the course of a month and you took your startup from A to Z like we had a working prototype and all and I was working with complete strangers. I don't know, it was just, it was, it was odd but that one felt really good. Like it felt really damn good to the point where the best way to describe it is that I surprised myself. Right. I'm actually getting the chills again. 

That's the best way to describe it. Like I literally surprised myself. I put myself out there. 

I did something and won first place and like a couple 1000 bucks or whatever it was to actually get this thing off the ground. So um as opposed to the other ones, they just felt like life moments, right? Like this was supposed to happen, you were supposed to get a job, you were supposed to graduate, you were supposed to do this, you were supposed to do that. But essentially, you know what the chase really came down to for me, the chase was all about the attention, right? Because I have been programmed over the course of my life too. Get attention through achievement, get love through achievement. So it's not the worst thing in the world because it led me to achieve a lot. So I'm not gonna sit here and say that it was like, you know, I'm a victim to this. It led me to achieve a lot, but it took me some time to realize what was actually happening. And that was exactly it. Yeah. I, I don't think that's uncommon. 

I think a lot of people are driven that way because, you know, the praises kind of maybe they didn't have it growing up in my case. I was very similar, but mine was built out of fear that I was going to be abandoned if I wasn't successful in certain things, you know, and that's, I mean, that's just because my mom died. And so in my eight year old brain, she abandoned me. And so if I did something wrong and wasn't the best at things, my fear, eight year old mind forever was that my dad was going to leave me too. And, you know, it's irrational when you think about it and when you say it out loud, but I was very driven like that. It was it was very much. 

I didn't celebrate anything up until, like, I got a degree in 20, like a second master's degree. And, and people were like, you need to go walk, you need to celebrate this. And I was like, why? It's just a checkmark, right? 

It's just another thing. And so this was the first time where I really sat down and I was like, wow, you know, I really accomplished a lot. I was working, this was during the pandemic, I was running the podcast. I was, you know, I was doing all these things and I still did this with a four point oh kind of thing and it took a lot, a lot for me to process that. So I think that's not uncommon that we kind of chased those successes, but you were having all those successes and you kind of alluded to that you were kind of falling into this ego trap of, you know, whatever that looks like for you and then had some kind of awareness that it was not taking you in the right direction. Is that? Yeah, absolutely. Before, before I answer that though, I wanna learn from you. 

I want to learn how you knew that you were driven by fear. Like, what was that moment? You didn't, you know it. Now, I know it now and it's very similar to your situation and kind of how, how you felt. I was, uh I would probably say about 30 early 30s and going through therapy trying to find the right therapist, which I don't know if you relate to. Yeah. And you feel like a failure if the first one doesn't work and then you're like, should I try another one? Is it going to be the same? And they're all different? And I found this one therapist that on paper, you would be like, there's no way that Matt and this woman would ever match. But she was perfect. 

She was the one that I needed. And we were talking and she goes, you realize that every decision that you've made since your mom died has been with that eight year old brain. You've made every decision. And then we started, like, backtracking and like, why did I do this? 

Oh, that eight year old was afraid to not do that. And so it was, it was really like one of those, like my whole, the curtains fell everything, like the whole world was a different, different color when I, when she told me that. And so, you know, it was very impactful in the way that, wow, I was really like, had I not had that fear though to your same point of like, it served me well, like it really served me well. Like I was able to do a lot of good things and have a lot of quote unquote successes. But yeah, it was, it was all out of fear of abandonment and fear of not being accepted. And I think also trying to prove to people that I wasn't going to be screwed up because my mom died when, in actuality, maybe if we pick it apart I was kind of screwed up. But it led me to where I am now. So I'm, I'm totally grateful for that now in regards to transitioning out of, and I hope you don't mind me asking you these questions? Okay? Cool. Yeah, I just wanted to throw that out there. 

Um, I'm just going to get back to you after that. Yeah, that's fine. Listen, we're here for that. I'm totally cool with that. It's just, I'm very curious to learn how you transitioned out of operating from that eight year old mindset. Right? Like that, that's, you know, a big t, that's a big t without a doubt. 

Um, and that's not an easy transition. Okay? I was gonna, yeah, I'm just curious, like, what did that actually look like? What were the practices? What were the actions that you were taking to, you know, start implementing change or was it natural? And that once the awareness came about it was, you know, kind of just like, oh shit, I'm sorry if I can't curse but, oh, crap. 

Um, things just changed after that. It was not immediate, it was, it was a longer process. I think I, I started to think about things that I wanted to do and not what either I thought society said I should do or what my father wanted me to do or what my family wanted to do. Because in all actuality, they wanted me to do what I wanted to do. But my brain was telling me otherwise. And so it was a slow growth to kind of leaning into, you know, the things that I want to do. And when my grandmother got sick, I was able to be with her for her final 96 hours of her life. And when she died, I think that was the trigger of me going, nothing really matters, you know. So let me just do what I want to do. And I think that was when I really started just like, not caring what other people had to think about whatever I was choosing to do as long as it wasn't hurting myself or anyone else, it doesn't really matter. 

I should do what I want to do. And so I think it took a couple pieces along the way. That was probably, I'd say a couple year period in between when I had that conversation and I got that awareness to when I was able to be a part of my grandmother's departure if we want to call it that and kind of start leaning into those other things. So, absolutely. Took a while. Have you, uh, I don't know what your belief system is in regards to this, but have you felt signs or, or seen signs or felt the people that have left you in your life. 

And, you know, this could be a little metaphysical, but I'm just curious if you've, if you felt that at all, I really haven't. Um There were a couple, I think in your grief journey, I don't know if you've experienced a deep loss, but in your grief journey, I think sometimes your grasp for things like that you want signs signals. Uh However, when I finished my grief journey with my mom, uh I didn't see anything anymore. And when I close the door on grief for my grandmother, I didn't see anything anymore. So I think it's just part of the grief journey for me to kind of find the signs because those are the comforts. 

Yeah, it's interesting and I always appreciate, thank you for sharing that. By the way, I always appreciate people's perspectives because, you know, I'll give you an example, right? I lost my grandmother. And um I was just young when it happened to the point where I never really made the effort to go see them. 

As I grew up, they were based in Virginia. And obviously I'm here in New York City and I always felt like it was such a drag to go down there and spend almost two weeks like it wasn't even like it was, I mean, now I appreciate it. Right. Like I it would be the most peaceful getaway. But back then, I'm like dad, you're pulling me away from my friends. Like this is summer break as a kid. And then when she passed away, you know, I didn't see her and then her husband, my grandfather was passing away and I at least spoke to him on the phone right before he passed. But I also didn't see him and I'll see signs, you know, or at least I take them as signs. 

For instance, my grandmother loved cardinals like the bird that the cardinals. And, um, I'm in New York City, dude. And I saw one in my backyard and I'm like, my mom saw it too and my parents were divorced, but my mom had saw it in my yard and she's like, that's nanny like that, that's her and it was right around my birthday. 

And, um, you know, it's just who knows what happens, you know, we, we don't know, it's the unknown so that this could get really deep. But let me, we'll find out, we'll find out someday and we will and then other people won't know. But we'll know, you know, I think, I think grief is a whole other journey and everyone is so different and, you know, the more that I have the opportunity to talk to people and I know this episode is more, more about something else. But I, I see how people have to find their own way and how some of these things that I did. 

We're not what I thought they were at the time now that I'm able to be so far removed from it. And I'm blessed in that way that I've had such traumatic experiences that I can do that. It feels really weird to say that. And that's kind of why I giggled a little bit. But, you know, I feel really like a more fully formed human because I've had so many struggles in, in that sense. So let's go back to you. So that's less about me right here. But I think it's interesting though because I can relate and I think a lot of people can relate to having these successes and kind of finding yourself more ego driven than you've been in the past and kind of acting out in that way. What did you do to kind of bring us back to kind of right before those moments? 

Yeah, I mean, ego was always in the driver's seat for me. Um It almost had to be right. I mean, that, that was my, that was how I was surviving. I was surviving and thriving in ways off of ego and, you know, before I put myself in therapy because of whatever was coming up for me. Um Ego actually derailed me at one point. Um financially to ego led me to want to maintain an image so that people wouldn't think less of me. 

That was one I'm getting the Children saying that because it's just so true. It was one of the hardest things that I had to grasp. I was doing so well for myself at such an early age. 

I mean, to the point where I was supporting my parents, not that they needed my support. But I vividly remember my mom saying like, hey, you know, like, can you help me with this? And I would help no problem. And my dad saying like, hey, I need a new car and then me giving him the down payment for that car. Like I was doing very well at a very young age and I saw that all dwindle away and I'm talking financials here to the point where like I said, you know, I wanted to maintain a certain image and I never changed my means of living and I felt broken when I, and this is how it's all gonna connect here. 

I felt broken when I had lost nearly everything financially and I paid for my own college. I had failed out of college. So my parents cut me off. 

They're like, dude, like you're not taking it seriously, like you want to go, go pay for it. So, I mean, I never changed the way I live just to maintain that image. And then when all of that money dwindled away down to, you know, just a few 1000 bucks as opposed to what it is, you know, a very fruitful bank account, I realized like, holy sh it, you know, what am I like? I thought I was that I thought I was what I had, right? And I needed that. So my ego led me there, right? 

That there, there are benefits. This, my ego led me there. And furthermore, it led me to start to develop worth from an inner perspective. And I can't say that I've, you know, finalize that journey. 

You know, it's still a work in progress without a doubt. But someone said it was a coach of mine. She's actually in Florida as well. She's a really awesome woman and she had something, she's in Tampa, she's in Tampa, but she's awesome. Um She said, Matt, have you ever had a teddy bear? And I said probably not, you know, like I had action figures and those types of things and she said, alright, think of, you know, something you had as a kid that you loved. And there were a few things I had a Terrell Davis, the Denver Broncos running back. Beanie baby. I love this thing. I loved it. Um You know, it was orange and blue, you know, it had his jersey on. It was really cool. 

I love this thing. And she said, think about what you're saying here, you love this, that bear didn't have anything inside of it, like it wasn't alive, but you still loved it. Like love is within you. Like you have that ability to love yourself and things like that were really powerful in helping me make shifts. Although like I said, still a work in progress but um we're getting there. Yeah. Do you, do you feel was that, was that okay? So your ego drove you to kind of try to maintain this image? You end up losing what? In maybe in your mind equaled success, right? 

This money, the amount of something that you have, whether that's money or things or whatever Because I think that's also society driven a little bit. Was that your kind of your breaking point? Was the, was that like you were no longer able to play the game and have people see you for what you were trying to project and now you're like, oh crap, now we need to project something real because I don't have this to fall back on. I was able to string it along a little bit longer. Um Social media is one hell of a tool, you know, uh you can make, I mean, listen, I'm in the my profession is branding, right? 

I'm in, I'm in the market, I'm in the business of storytelling and I'm damn good at it. So I was able to tell a story that made it seem like things never shifted. So I wouldn't say that was my breaking point. My breaking point actually came from an intimate relationship. Um I just couldn't understand why I felt the way I felt and I felt anxious to the core, anxious to the core and I'm like, my anxiety symptom is lightheadedness. 

I don't get, you know, I don't get antsy. I, and I don't experience anything other than light headedness and it's freaking scary as hell and the relationship I was in and I'm not casting blame here but, you know, the relationship and what was coming about within that relationship was causing my body to react a certain way, you know, and it scared the hell out of me. And I'm like, dude, like I have to make a change. I didn't know how, but I said enough's enough like I'm gonna try something. Like let me try therapy. 

I have no clue what made me say that by the way, like, zero clue. I did therapy years ago when I was a kid when my parents were getting divorced. But Matt, I just went to my therapist office with my dad and counted the books on his shelf. Like that's what I did every session. 

He asked me what I dreamed about and things, but like I was freaking in fifth grade, you know, and I was only there for like six months or whatever it was this time around was different and the shift happened when, you know, and I know, you know, this already. But my therapist had said to me numerous sessions in, she said, Matt, you know, you're not being treated right. And I didn't know I wasn't being treated right that right there was the lightbulb moment. And man, what came about from that? Right? So we're, we're talking about a relationship, but That led to one layer coming off the next layer coming off the next layer coming off the next layer coming off. And the reason I'm saying that is because this conversation might sound like, you know, it went in 30 different directions to an extent. But at the end of the day, it's all one direction, it's all in, right? And just layer after layer. That's when the changes started to come about. What did you feel when, when she said that? Like, and when you realized that she was right? Like, did your whole because I feel like we create this facade on ourselves and like everything when everything shatters, you're like, what am I? What am I doing? How did this happen? How did you feel when you realized that she was right? I didn't want to believe it, right? I denied it. I didn't verbally say that I don't believe it. But in my mind, I did and I had to see it for myself with that thought in mind, right? So I stayed in that relationship. You know, it was like an addiction, right? 

It's, it's what you believe love is and I stayed in that relationship and I tried and tried and tried to make things right. Quote unquote. And the more I did that while things got better at times they got worse they got better at times, got worse than worse. And it was finally true at a certain point. And I really, you know, I finally was able to have the courage because that's what it takes. It takes courage. Um, in my case, I'm a very hard headed individual. So it took me time and courage to finally make the decision to, to stop. But it did dawn on me a few times that I wasn't being treated right. 

And, you know, you want to give your partner the benefit of the doubt every now and then and say, listen, this is a partnership. Let's not quit on each other. Let's try. And while we tried and tried, it just didn't work out. And that was fine. And I, like I said, I finally had to put my foot down and walk away from it, but started with denial, had to, had to test it myself how to test those waters myself. 

Found out the hard way. And, you know, that's the way I learned. I'm someone that learns the hard way. But ultimately, that was the best thing that has ever happened to me. Because without that relationship, without those feelings, without any of that, I would have never experienced what I experienced. 

I would have never started the journey inward at that moment in time. At least I can't say I would have never right because, you know, the universe works in mysterious ways, but it wouldn't have happened at that time is what I'm getting at and that's, that's powerful. I'm wondering, did you have, well, I guess maybe not, but did you have the same feeling after when you left that relationship as hard as it is to leave a relationship and as hard as it is to be courageous and step out and say, like, we didn't, we didn't do it, right? Like this is just not working. Did you have a, a pride moment in yourself over the the internal awareness to like honor yourself? Was there any kind of realization that like, wow, like I'm doing this for me? Yeah, I did, I can't say it was grandiose, but it was, it was visible in my life, right? 

I knew I made that decision for myself and it hurt to make that decision. So it's almost conflicting, right? Have you ever experienced that where, you know, you're doing something that you need to do? But at the same time it hurts and it's, I mean, it's so interesting when emotions are involved and then psychology is involved. And there there was a disconnect between the two like they weren't in alignment, right? Because my emotions were attached to someone that didn't do right by me. And furthermore, I now had the understanding of what it was that I truly deserved, why I deserved it and the shifts that needed to be. So ultimately, I think I felt more proud when I started to get my emotions and the psychological beliefs in alignment because they were just all over the place and that, that wasn't serving me. So I think I felt more proud when the alignment started to come about, which it still is. 

I think I, I asked that because, you know, I don't know you beyond the episodes that I've listened to of your show and our conversation so far. But all the things that you've described, it's almost like the decisions you're making prior to this. We're all for others, right? For others to see what you can do. And so me thinking like, wow, like your, this is like a big decision that you're doing solely. 

I mean, majority of it is for you probably for, for your partner as well because in the long run, you know, that they could probably be better in a different situation as well. But you know, that's kind of where that stemmed because this is the first time in our conversation that you really describe something that was hard like you said, but also for you, not other people to be like, because other people, when you say like we broke up, you know, like they're not gonna be like, oh my God, such a good job, most people, right? That's not a public thing that you brag about and like working with, you know, famous people or, or winning an award or those kind of things. So taking something hard and doing it for yourself. Feels really big like that's a, that's a big shift in itself is like, wow, now I'm finally doing something for me. I appreciate that. Uh, and I'm gonna let you know you're a great podcaster for this exact reason. I was never made aware of that. Right. I mean, did I know the decision was for me? Yes. Did I think about it? No. Right. I just knew it was something that needed to be done and I appreciate you bringing that out because it's gonna make me ponder on it. Right? Like that, that is, it's powerful and it's gonna make me think. What other decisions did I actually make for myself versus other people? And not that it's wrong to make a decision for someone. But uh I am trying to shift out of people pleasing, which is something that I've, you know, I've done many, many times over. Um I am trying to shift out of those types of decisions and those types of behaviors and habits and whatnot. So I just wanted to point out how great of a podcast you are for catching on to that. And I don't need the brownie points for saying this but very intensive listening, brought that out and you gave me something to ponder on to the point where I need to make sure I write that down. But I wanted to say thank you that, that it's powerful to say the least. 

I I appreciate that and I'm not very good at taking compliments. So I just wanna, I mean, this is, this is to humans having a conversation. I always say that what I love about the ability to do the life shift podcast is I feel like I'm able to have conversations like this, that everyone should be having at a coffee shop at like walking down the street and not like having to set a time where we get together and schedule something where we're talking on recording. And I hope that when people listen to this, they feel, I don't know if the word brave is good, but brave enough to just share the gross parts of their life to write. Like, not disgusting in that way, but like the parts that aren't so pretty that aren't so shiny because I think those parts, at least for myself, I feel like those parts are the most interesting parts about me and have made me who I am and I'm sure that, that you have similar feelings about the not so great parts that you've experienced. Absolutely 100%. I think those moments in my life were the best moments to talk about. They make the best stories, you know, now without a doubt, 100%. Right. And that, that's so funny. 

You say that because there's an individual. Are you familiar with Jon Gordon? I don't think so, but no, no, don't even worry about a great guy, great, great guy. Um He wrote a book or he wrote many books. One is called The Energy Bus. And the reason I'm bringing this up is because there's an equation within that book that I often times share um with people. 

I almost wish I had a tattooed on me, but it's uh E plus P equals, oh, there's no numbers involved. I suck at math. So don't worry if you're thinking like equation math, etcetera, but E plus P equals O events plus perspective equals the outcome, right? And the only thing we have 100% control over in that equation is the p our perspective, we can't control every single event that takes place in our life. And while we might try to Me being one of those people at times, um we don't have 100% control, right? Like there's so many variables that go into play and that determines the outcome. So like you said, that is what the messy is, what I learned the most from. And it doesn't necessarily happen six days, six weeks, six months down the line, maybe six months, depending on the, depending on the event. But when you look back and like what did I learn from that? You know, did I need to control my emotions? Did I need to do this? 

So, you know, whatever it may be um perspective is everything, you know. So when I look back on the messy in my life. I'm like, you know what I want to share this because if it can help, you know, a college student, if you could help this person, if you could help with that person, you know, I don't necessarily want to be vulnerable for the reward, which I think society pushes, especially with men, by the way, um you know, be vulnerable for the reward is, you know, a really big agenda, but I want to be vulnerable to, to teach, you know, I want to be vulnerable to story tell and whatnot. So, um that's exactly what we're doing. I mean, I think the perspective thing is interesting because in my mind, someone could say they have perspective on a moment but until they have true awareness of like the ins and the outs of their own being, I don't know if that's a true perspective that you have, right? I feel like you have to get to this. Had you thought about some of those moments before you went into therapy? I feel like maybe your perspective of earlier events in your life would be shaded in some kind of way because you hadn't done the inner work. Right. Do you agree? I agree wholeheartedly. I agree wholeheartedly. Right. I think it's, and this is why therapy is really important for me at least. And I'm sure you could attest to this. Like having a therapist is an unbiased third party, right? And no steak, no steak whatsoever. And they're just there to help you look at things full spectrum and a lot of what I learned in therapy at least was to, well, first of all, my first therapist and just going back to what you said earlier, I very much so understand the process of finding a therapist. 

You gotta kiss a lot of frogs. Uh, maybe not a lot, but you got to kiss some frogs. It's, it's almost like, uh very, very, it's, it's the much easier choice, the much easier choice. It's almost, it reminds me of um I saw a meme the other day on Instagram and it said you have multiple soulmates in life, right? And they're all for different levels. And I think the same is for therapists. Um you have different soulmate therapists. But yeah, I mean, ultimately for me and my perspective being changed and shifted, it really did come down to having that unbiased opinion from the outside, which was the therapist. It also came down to just personal growth, turning inward, like you said, being able to see what that event truly did to me, why that event happened the way it did, how that event happened, the way it did. Uh There's, there's so many factors. It's almost like, I don't know if you ever did this in social studies class in elementary school, but that was a law if you ever had to do like a what was it called for me? Current events where you have to put who, what, why, when whatever down the side of the page and kind of write out a current events, things that was, that's kind of what I did with, with these past experiences and, you know, shifting the perspective after that growth and I'm sure, you know, five years from now, I'm gonna listen to this and be like, man, what the hell are you saying on this podcast? 

Like, dude, you changed so much since then. It's just growth, you know. Yeah. And if we're lucky, we get it right. 

You know, I think some people haven't found it yet. I mean, it took me, it took me 20 plus years to get perspective on my mom's death. And I mean, that's a long time. You know. So here's the thing, not everyone is meant to find it, right? And I ask a question on my show, I've asked it three times. 

The reason I know how many times I asked it is because it's, it's been that little. And the question is, is everyone meant to heal, right? And hell is a very sexy word these days. And I'm trying to stray away from using it, but is everyone meant to hell, I'm gonna use it right now just for the sake of conversation. And the answer is the answer is unfortunately, in my opinion, no. Does everyone have the ability to heal? The answer is yes. Will everyone heal? The answer is No, I know you could probably attest to this. 

There's probably people in your life that just don't want to change and the world might force them, that the world might bring them through the mud, might bring them through all of the hardships. But you want to know what they don't want to change and they'll say these were just the cards I was dealt. Right. And that I think is a very interesting thing to discuss because you chose to do the inner work, right? Like you made that choice, willing and courageously. 

There's people that are tuned into this, that make that choice, willing and courageously. Um And as much as I would love to say that we're, you know, we're all going to change the truth is we're just, we're not. Um, and it's just not what our lives are meant to do specifically in this lifetime. You know, like we're just not meant to do that. 

Like, think about it. You, you know, everyone has different professions, everyone has different aspirations, different goals and what we surround ourselves with and who we surround ourselves with ultimately dictates what we do with ourselves. So it's, uh, it's interesting. 

It's interesting but, you know, I wish more people would make those, those interchanges. Well, to be fair, it's easier to not right. It's hard work to, to absorb blame is not the right word, but that's what I'm going to use right now. It's, it's harder to take on that blame internally than to just continue to blame external sources that are unrelated. Right? Like, that's just the cards I was dealt. 

That's very much an external blame of. Like, that's just what's coming to me. And if we take the blame for not taking action, it's very hard and it's humbling. Uh, so, but to, to your point, I think that's kind of what you did in therapy is you kind of took this on like, oh, this relationship is really not serving me and maybe part of things that I've gone through in my past brought me to this point and it was a codependent kind of thing. And, you know, like, what do I do now? 

How did you change after that moment of, of leaving that quote unquote toxic relationship that wasn't serving you in the way that you needed to be served to be a whole person. What, what, what changed most about you after that moment, the way I viewed myself, you know, understanding, first of all, it was an understanding, right? I think change comes down to four things. I might not remember all four off the top of my head. But from what I understand for change to actually come about, there's four things. 

Number one is awareness. Number two is understanding, number three is disassociation and number four is making a declaration, right? Those four things are what takes change. And when I look back, I had to get aware that and that's what we talked about. My therapist made me aware. She said, Matt, you're not being treated, right? 

Me being the hard headed guy had to go through it and see it for myself. Awareness to understanding why would I let that take place in my life? Right. Having that understanding. Okay. Well, Matt, look back on your childhood because that's where almost everything stems from. Right. Look back on your childhood where you neglected, you know, where you pushed away, where you, this, where you, that um get an understanding of why this took place, why you've, you love the way you view love from their disassociated, disassociated, right? 

Understand that this isn't who you are. It's what you've been programmed to believe is you, what you've been programmed to believe is, you know, how you go about life and then make a declaration. There's a really big difference between a declaration and an affirmation. A declaration is more of like, you know, you're putting a stake in the ground and from here on out, it's gonna be a change that process for me. 

What I'm talking about those four points didn't happen overnight. There was a really big grieving process, right? When you, even when the person's alive, that's a different type of grief. I understand that. But leaving a relationship, there is a grieving process and it took me quite some time. It took me almost. 

I want to say six plus months maybe more than that where I was still really caught up, you know, wanting to go back to what I thought love was. And I'm glad I didn't be. And I've kept my distance and the distance allows you to realize that first of all, if that never came back to you, then, you know, that's, that's a sign in itself. But that period alone really shifted things. So the best way to put it is, you know, those four things, you know, just having the awareness, having the understanding of how this all happened, having that disassociation and then making the declaration to make sure that it never happens again. And, you know, I like to refer to ourselves as parts, right? When you're in a quote unquote, toxic relationship doesn't mean you're toxic means a part of you is right? We all have parts, right? 

We, we don't have to categorize ourselves. I'm six ft five, like all six ft five of me isn't toxic. There's a part of me that is, and I can't put a measurement to what that part is, but you can't remove it either. 

You could, you could definitely dim the light on it, you can dim it, dim it, dim it, but it's a part of you and you should honor that part of you. And that's probably another thing that really helped me change was viewing myself like that. But I can't put a timeline to any of this, but essentially that's how I went about it, understanding those four aspects and, you know, moving forward from there and, and speaking of moving forward, how do you use that declaration as a guide post for you moving forward or have you created new norms for you in this newer, more enlightened version of you where you know, the inside and the outside and what success is to you now? Yeah, that's a really great question too. I think I've, I've only tested that declaration a few times. Right. I've only dated a few times after that specific relationship. Um They're funny enough. 

I really started putting myself first. Right. And exactly. Um, for living 20 plus years of putting others first and people pleasing and, and the chasing, I said to myself, I don't know if this is the best time for me to get back out there and date. So I can't say that I've tested that declaration. But what I can say is that yes, I do think it is a guide post without a doubt and it's standing firm like the flag is still flying on that without a doubt. Um But I started making decisions for myself and I said to myself, you know what, you know, what you want, an ideal partner. 

I have a whole list, but you're doing a disservice to your future self if you don't become the person your ideal person has on their list. Right. So I think that's where my focus began to go, it began to go to becoming that person, which meant taking better care of myself, physically, taking better care of myself, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, um focusing on the things I love the podcast this that and the other really shifting to me and putting myself at the forefront, which is something I haven't done and getting really comfortable with falling in love with that person, falling in love with the person. 

I was becoming most importantly, falling in love with who I was. The person that made all those messy mistakes because there's gonna be a ton more of messy mistakes throughout my life. I'm not going anywhere, you know, knock on wood. Um But that's, that's where the focus has been for the most part. It really hasn't been about testing that declaration. 

It's been more about putting myself um you know, right in the forefront where I should have been for many years. I would beg to differ that you are testing that declaration by doing what you're doing. I feel like that, you know, by, by honoring what's important to you and finding ways to love yourself and making yourself a whole person and in the way that you want to be at this version of your life, I feel like that tests the declaration itself. I don't know what the specific declaration is, but, but it feels like that has got citing you as as to what you do moving forward and and, and, and it's probably not strictly related to a relationship in that sense. I mean, I would imagine that spills into your business. It spills into your podcast. It spills into the decisions that you make in any aspect of your life. Now. Is, am I reading that right? 

You are, you are once again you're bringing about a different perspective. Um This is, this is really good. Uh You're right because part of that declaration was to stop the chase, to stop the people pleasing, right? And part of that declaration is 100% in action daily, right? 

It's the reason I went to the gym this morning. It's the reason I, you know, did my stretching before this call. It's, it's all of the reasons why I've been putting myself first. So you are 100% correct. And I appreciate that perspective. 

Thank you for challenging me on that. It's uh that's um that's great. I think that's a success to celebrate. 

I think that's one to realize that you are honoring yourself. I think putting yourself first is seem, I think a lot of people see that as selfish when it's not because by putting yourself first and realizing and creating this whole being your better serving everyone else, you're better serving through what you do. Your podcast would not be good if you didn't have these moments of where you're able to, to put yourself first and fill all the cups, all your own cups, fill them up with all your own water before you share anything else. You know, like, you wouldn't be able to have these conversations the seven year ago version of you, right. Like chasing everything your podcast would be totally different. 

You wouldn't be this human showing up to have these deep conversations about wherever your curiosity takes you. So I think, take a moment, celebrate the change you've created for yourself because it's, it's huge and I think so many people are afraid of that, that I think it's great that you shared it out loud, you know, and I know you do in your podcast as well and you go deep and you share some personal stuff and in some of the episodes, but I appreciate you bringing it here and letting me tell you what you should be happy. No, I I appreciate you bringing this perspective, Matt. I genuinely mean this like, I don't think about these things often, right? Because to me, it's just my life, to me, it's just my experiences. So hearing you shed light on things and sharing the perspective that, you know, you're very intent listener. Like I said, so you're able to dissect what I'm saying and say, Matt, like, wait a second dude like this, this and this and I'm like, oh shit like you're right, you know. So I want to say thank you for the opportunity. Like it's, it's eye opening to me. 

I'm sitting here learning about myself more than more than I would have thought. Well, and that proves my point that we just need to have these conversations with people, right? I feel like if one of the benefits of me sharing my own story on my show, I've said this before, one of the biggest benefits to me personally was not that, I mean, I lived that story. 

I know it, but my dad was able to hear me tell that story without any. Like if I was face to face with him, I probably would put some bias in that I would try to protect his feelings. And so sharing it like this allows other people to hear it in a different way and like internalize things because he lived the same experience as me, but heard my version of it and was like, oh I didn't even realize, you know, and I, and I, and expose things to him. So I think there's such a great benefit of sharing our own story. And I hope when you listen back to this, you're like, oh, I can't believe I said that or, you know, good for me for saying that. 

Yeah, I'm gonna be honest, I'll probably critique the hell out of myself. But uh we all do. You know what's interesting? 

You mentioned that your, you know, your pops listen to the episode and that's actually something I want to do. Uh This year, I've been finding it hard to have a conversation with both of my parents. Um But with my dad in regards to how he raised me, and I said to myself, you know what, while I'm still trying to muster up the courage to have a conversation about it. I said I'm just gonna write a letter, right? I'm gonna, I'm gonna write a letter because, you know, and I'm not shaming him for his parenting style. I just felt like he wasn't a dad at times, right? Like I never had a conversation with my dad about sex. 

I never had a conversation about relationships or anything of that nature. But I could tell my dad looks up to me like I could literally see that when we hang out. But you, you know, you bring something up that is kind of reinforcing what I want to do and I want to give him that letter on Father's Day. So I'm gonna have to get to writing. 

It's, it's not gonna be easy and I think it would be even more hard to hand it off. But, um, that, that in itself is a topic, you know, relationships with our fathers. It's, it's not an easy thing at times. So you're reinforcing that for me, Matt. 

Well, I think what I really learned and I think this comes with the perspective or the ability to have that awareness and understanding and then eventually getting to the perspective is that a lot of times you know, my father, he didn't, we didn't know what we were doing. He didn't have the tool set. His parents didn't give him the tool set to do the things that he needed to do. And so sometimes I look at my experience and I absorbed some of the blame as well because I wasn't as vocal as to what I needed. 

I wasn't able to, to, to verbalize that I was afraid he was gonna leave, you know, and that, I don't know if I could have. So it's not really his fault that I did certain things in certain ways. And so, you know, that that whole equation that you gave me with no numbers, the perspective thing really stands out and I feel so fortunate and I hope you feel the same way that you have enough growth in yourself that you're able to look at these events with a different perspective than maybe that you had in the moment. Yeah, it's, um, it took time, right? It takes time, you know, it's not easy to go through a hard, you know, heartbreak and turn around and be like, you know what I learned this from, you know, it's, it doesn't work like that. 

It's time, you know, time and I'm not saying time heals all wounds or anything of that nature because that I do not believe whatsoever time and work definitely work. Um, but time, you know, you know, you need to give it some time to really, you know, and it's, it's interesting, I guess I'm gonna ask you like time is obviously part of the equation for that. But if you were to be able to instantly learn, what would that take? I don't think time, I think time happens. Right. And so you have to do the work to go into it. And so like when I was grieving my mom, I wasn't ready to do what I needed to do. I knew what I needed to do. 100%. I could have written it down what I needed to do. I wasn't ready. And when I was ready, I did it and I learned so much about grief by doing it wrong for so long that when my grandmother died, I jumped in two ft right into the pool and I took time off of work and I was like, look, I'm taking this time to grieve. 

This is how long it's gonna take me. It's gonna take me a very short amount of time because I know what to do. And it was very short. 

That window was months and I had A much richer relationship with my grandmother than I did with my mom. I was eight when my mom died. When my grandmother died, I was like 34, And it was the quickest grief experience. And now I don't look back with like any sadness, which is crazy because for so long it took me forever. You know, like it took me forever to grieve my mom and, and I don't know, I don't know what that means, but I don't think that time is a huge factor. It just happens to pass by, but you have to be ready and willing to do the work and it won't work if you're not willing to do it. Right. Like you can know exactly what you need to do. But if you're not in that space of awareness or ready to take on some of that blame or ready to change things, time doesn't matter. Yeah. You know, if your mom was sitting across me right now, what would you say to her? I don't know. I would have to have a regular conversation with her because I don't know her. 

I would have to get to know her. I don't remember what she sounded like. I don't remember much more than a couple blips of my life and that's no one's fault. I was eight. Like, I don't know many people that have super vivid memories about things that they didn't know they had to keep, you know, they didn't know that they had to savor those. 

So, I don't know, I would have, I think it would be interesting because she's very shy. She was a very shy person. So I think it'd be really interesting if she knew I was just talking about her dying all the time. I think that would be very interesting because it would be like sharing the family secrets. But no, I, I'm not sad about that. 

You know, I think it's just part of my life and it makes me who I am now that, you know, death is just part of life. And I feel more layered because I've experienced it in multiple ways. And I almost, this is weird but I almost feel bad for people that haven't experienced a great loss because of how rich certain things are in my life because of that. Yeah. You know, who actually changed my mindset on death was Mike Tyson the boxer. 

I don't know if you've ever listened to his podcast and I'm not trying to plug it. I get nothing for doing so. But, um, where's your affiliate link? 

He talks about death quite a lot. And it's not easy to grasp that it's a part of life. But we would be silly to say if it wasn't right where we're actually every day preparing to die. Right? I mean, we, we don't know what's gonna happen. Exactly. Yeah. He, he really, really changed my mindset of it because he talks about it in a sense where he's seen himself die and I'm not talking about ego death or anything of that sort. 

Um, but he dabbles with psychedelics and whatnot and, uh, I haven't done any of that so I can't speak on that from experience, but the way he speaks on it is rather beautiful. To be honest, it's rather beautiful. So, if you haven't personally checked out the show, I'll make sure to send you an episode where he speaks on and it's like mind blowing. It's interesting to me. 

I know we're way over time of my normal length. But For my whole life, my mom died when she was 32 and my whole life 32 was old. And I always thought I was also going to die at 32. 

I thought that was like when it happened. And when I hit 33, there was a very interesting experience of like, well, now I'm older than my mom forever. Now I will be older than she even considered being because she, you know, like, and so it's been a very weird, I feel like I'm on this, like borrowed time now and it's kind of nice now that I found the space where I can lean into the things that I want to do. So that's another piece of understanding that you could die at any point. And so like, why not do the things that we want to do and serve us in the way that we need to, well, in the interest of time, I do want to ask you the question that I like to ask people and it doesn't really have an answer and you can answer it however you want. But if you thought about if this current version of Matt could go back to the version of you where you kind of were acting out and your ego was driving things. Is there something that this version of you could say to him that, that you would want to say to him or, or not? 

Yeah, I didn't even have to think about it. Three simple words. I would just say I love you, right? Um Literally goose bumps. 

I would just say I love you. Um That's something I've done quite often in regards to like inner child meditations and whatnot. And while those are specifically geared toward me at a much, much, much younger age, I think I just needed to hear that and feel that even in my twenties, I thought about this the other day, right? Um I got a hug from my mom and I caught myself kind of holding on to that and I was just like this, this felt really good. And then one of my best friends, his father had passed away recently and at his wake, I hugged my buddy. It was the longest hug I've had in recent time. 

I would literally just say I love you, you know, and those words alone would probably, you know, if I saw my younger self, they would probably make my younger self like look at me like I'm crazy. But, but I would, I would just say I love you, you know, I love you man. That's it as simple as that. 

I put in parentheses, not because of what you do or not because of what you create. I just simply love you as a person who you are. Exactly. Yeah. I think we all need that and I think it's interesting to look back and I know a lot of people work on, you know, do the inner child work and I think there's a time and place for that for a lot of people and, and just taking the moment to think about like, what did that person need at that time? 

I've had many people to say, I just give them a hug. You know, I would just do that. So thank you for going down these different rabbit holes with me and talking about how, you know, just one person's words or a couple of people's words in your life made you think about things in a different way and created this version of Matt and, and what you're doing with your podcast in the world and just putting greatness out there so that other people can learn from either your experience or other people's experiences uh in a way that, that resonates with them. So just thank you for being a part of this. Thank you. You're, you're thanking me. 

I need to thank you for numerous things. I also want to once again say congratulations on your milestone as a podcaster. Um I know that you were really excited for that. I'm excited for you. And I know now more than ever, how far and how successful you're gonna be in this podcasting game. Furthermore, thank you for the opportunity to be here. I'm very grateful that you found this journey um to be a value to the community. So I want to say thank you for that. And I'm super, super excited for watching this podcast continuously grow. Matt. Like you are absolutely fantastic. I will say it again. Uh Absolutely fantastic podcaster and I appreciate the fact that you listen, the way you listen and the perspective that you give about from what you intake. So thank you for all of that. Thank you for saying that. And again, I'm very bad at compliments, but I appreciate it. It's nice to have a human conversation and, and for other people to be able to listen in on a human conversation and find connections to their lives and what they're going through. So I appreciate you. And if you appreciate us listener, we would love a five star rating and a nice little review on Apple podcast. We don't really know what that does for us, but I think you can probably tell that if matter, I receive those, those kind of reviews, it makes your day a little bit better. So, thank you for listening to the Life shift podcast and we will be back next week with a brand new episode.