How Dr. Devin DeGreif Rebuilt Her Life After Her Mother’s Murder

00:00 This episode is about what happens when you hit the edge and hear something inside you say, not yet. Dr. Devon DeGriff shares a story of losing her mom in one of the most unimaginable ways, the unraveling that followed after, and the moment that everything shifted. It's raw, unfiltered, and ultimately it's about choosing to live with intention, even when it hurts. When I started to lean into that idea, I heard the loudest no. I have. 00:27 ever heard in my life. It was like a voice right here saying no, like screaming at me no. And I was in the bathroom by myself and I'm hearing this no and I'm like, what the? And then I'm like, and I started talking to this voice and I was like, okay, okay, okay. If I'm not supposed to do that, like, and so this is what I heard is no, this is not your story. This is not how your story ends. Your story is meant to be shared with other people. And I was like, okay, okay. I'm Macielhuli. 00:57 And this is the Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever. 01:13 Hello, my friends. Welcome to the LifeShift Podcast. I am here with Devin. Can I call you Devin? Yeah. Okay. I know you're Dr. Devin, but I just want to make sure that I can call you Devin. No, my ego is so big, I must be called doctor all the time. No. Hi, I'm Devin. I just happen to be a doctor as well. Thank you for wanting to be a part of the LifeShift Podcast. I often refer to this podcast as this healing journey that I never knew I needed. And as it goes even more, I'm like, oh, wow, there's a lot of pieces that 01:43 I'm still being healed from these conversations, hearing these humans share, oftentimes, really, really hard moments in their lives and what they did after, how they picked up the pieces. For me, I kind of look at when I lost my mom when I was eight, she was killed in a motorcycle accident, and my dad had to sit me down and tell me that. And I look at that as my life shift moment, when the words came out of his mouth. And for me, 02:10 It took 20 years for me to figure out how to, don't yell at me, but I say close the door on grief as it relates to my mom. Because I just pushed it down. It was just kind of like, it was the 80s, 90s. People weren't talking about it. People were like, this kid will be fine. Don't worry about it. And, you know, I took that on and I had to be perfect so that everyone knew I was okay. And so now I get to talk to people about these hard moments and realize like I wasn't alone. 02:36 and I could have talked to people. And the more that we talked to people, maybe the more or the less alone we feel, you know, like the more we feel like, we are connected to each other despite having different, you know, lived experiences. So thank you for just being a part of my healing journey. Yeah, of course. And you mine because us normalizing these conversations and having it perform more of us to realize this is a universal experience and we all have our own version of. 03:03 grief, loss and change because these are like the provokers and the catalysts for shifts and change in our lives. So it's really great that we have these really open conversations of it because there's a lot of people that may have not had direct grief of losing a loved one, but they may be grieving a part of themselves they lost or grieving a version of their lives they thought they might've had. And so I think it's just so good to talk about these things because it's really universal for all of us. Yeah, no, the human experience is a... 03:30 Wildly similar, although we're having crazy different literal experiences, but the way we feel about certain things and when we go down different routes of our emotions, it's like, oh, I can relate to that. One thing that really stuck out with me in one conversation, I think I was conditioned growing up kind of comparing my experience to other people. I could not imagine how the experience you had that's just so terrible. Mine is so minor compared to that. 03:58 very much of that and someone was like, you you realize that your worst moment in your life is pretty similar to my worst moment in my life. And I was like, well, that makes total sense. But at the same time, we're just like, we're conditioned to like either minimize our own experience or be like, oh, ours is so much worse. But really, like, our worst is our worst. I don't know if you've ever had that realization where you're just like, oh, OK. I've had so many times in my experience where people are. 04:26 kind of shocked and not traumatized, really, but they were like, just, in the beginning, I remember so many people saying, I can't really relate, that seems just so extreme. And then over the years, I've really learned how to share my story from a place, from the place of me that it is universal. Yes, mine was darker and I had, there was a reason in my journey for me to have such a big catalytic event. But my joke always is, is like, I got that early, I got that done early in my life, in my 20s, so I could just live life in joy and happiness and. 04:54 share and teach people for the rest of my life. so yeah, so it's just it's, but it's amazing how we can really compare those experiences and think, oh, well, mine's not as bad because it wasn't as bad. And it's like, don't do that. Like your experience is your experience. My experience is my experience. But let my experience enlighten you as to what the human potential is. Really, that's that's my message. Yeah. Again, I'm looking forward to hearing your hard story. And that sounds weird saying it. 05:24 but I think you understand because I get to know you as a human, we get to hear your human story and how that shaped you into who you are today. first, maybe you can just tell us who Devin is in 2025. Like how do you show up in the world? How do you identify? Yeah, so Devin in 2025 is I'm a life coach and healer, but life coaching, not like the woo woo way that life coaching has gotten in the last 10 years or so, but like. 05:53 I literally help people change their lives from the foundation of their core self within. So I do that through online coaching, online healing, in-person healing and coaching. But it's about being a reflection of truth for people. And so what I do is I reflect who people are in their core true self and where the illusion is of who they believe themselves to be given these life experiences. 06:18 So Devin in 2025 has taken all of the wisdom of my trauma and has taken all the wisdom of my experiences. And now I serve people and I help people come to their joy in their life. And then in 2025, I just happened to publish my first book, which is titled Good Grief, The Journey from Grief to Joy, which is my whole story and many aspects of it. And I just published at the end of May. So Devin in 2025 is a published author, which is wild. 06:47 And so I get to express who I am in various different ways, but all in service to other people waking up to who they are, what their life is, what they can have in their life, what they're capable of. Like that you're still here for a reason. Like I help people realize like your soul is still alive for a reason, no matter how shitty it's been, you're still here. You're still here. So that's me in 2025. Yeah, not a lot at all. Like not, not a lot going on. I know, right? Small potatoes, small potatoes. And it sounds like 07:17 It sounds like what you do would fill your cup, but also at the same time would be lot of pouring out as well. Do you find that you also have to practice a lot of self care as you're doing your work because of the things that you're holding and the things you're reflecting on people and... 07:37 and those kind of things. Well, I would say it's, I get this question a lot, a lot of times, because people, especially my clients, they're just like, oh, you give so much and you help so much. Like, how do you do it? What are you doing to make yourself okay to do this? I have to practice what I preach, honestly, right? Is that there are certain things of my daily practices to get myself aligned to my higher consciousness of what I'm here to be doing and what are the essential action steps to be taking in my day and. 08:01 How am I to show up in my fullness today? And there's very distinct practices that I do. They're the same practices I teach my clients. So it's like, I'm practicing what I preach, but no, it would be absolutely ignorant and stupid to start to be going in and like blindly helping people. like, we talk about, it's like anybody I've mentored, I've mentored other therapists before and other people who are looking to guide people in intuitive processes and things. And the main thing I say is we can't lead anybody to anywhere we haven't been. 08:29 If I haven't journeyed there, I have no right to journey and help you guide in that journey, right? And so, yeah, there's a lot that I do to keep myself in my fullness of my being and my resources so that I can hold space for people and share truth with people. But I love that question because I think a lot of times people can be really, really giving and thinking that they're doing good things, but it's usually out of dysfunction that people are doing that as you're trying to compensate for something. 08:58 But when you turn that mirror the other way and look at what am I doing, it's like, that's where we have actually the biggest impact with other people is taking responsibility for what am I doing. Yeah, so I absolutely have to. Yeah, I mean, and it just goes to that cliche saying that we all kind of lean on is that put your oxygen mask on first. It's very much like, logically, it makes sense. think if you're a giver or you're an empath, I think sometimes you forget because you're like, there is. 09:27 a fulfilling part of helping or listening or whatever. And then we're like, oh crap, went too far. And now I have to take care of myself. So I think that's really important. But it's so interesting because when you see people that love what they do and it involves something like this, you I can also go, oh, hope you're taking care of yourself. I figured you were but. 09:45 I think it's no, I think this is such a really great conversation because I think a lot of people in their own pain, because we didn't get resources for how to deal with our pain and our grief and everything. So especially in the American culture, it is a very, very common thing for people to unconsciously be taking all the energy that they really should be kind of coming and looking inside of what's going on. But you don't want to look at it because you don't know how to look at your own pain. And then we end up just 10:12 in a very altruistic, awesome initiative, but we end up putting all of our energy outward. But that's why we're feeling depleted is because we're missing the thing in between, which is us. And we're just trying to like, not me, here's for you. And it really, it really just doesn't serve. And as cheesy as the metaphor is, that's the exact metaphor that we have to really, really, really lean into the profound truth in that statement, you know? 10:35 Yeah, and you have to have a really conscious effort to do it, I think, at first, at least to like, really, because I think you can think you're doing it like, Oh, yeah, I'm taking I'm eating well. I'm thinking, you know, like, you're just doing like checkbox kind of thing. But you really have to with intention go into making sure that you're good so that you can do the work and you just do it better. So I think it's I love that you're you do this for people for a living and you you've created this space for yourself out of your own journey and kind of made something valuable about 11:05 out of it for other people, not only yourself. think that's beautiful. And I think we all could hope for something like that. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's where our life has purpose. Like, as I share my story, like my your pain has purpose. My pain had purpose. My there's a purpose behind what we're experiencing. And most often, our purpose is to help others. Right. And when we when we really are in the orientation of being of service to others and helping others from a place of not not like I'm going to help others and 11:35 by virtue of sacrificing myself. Like that's an outdated conversation, okay? Old news. Old news is like in, it's like in this new era where there are more people becoming conscious. There's more people waking up. There's more people waking up. And in that waking up, the first usually thing is you realize how shit you actually feel. And I think that a lot of people can do that. There's a lot of people out there in healthcare and therapeutics or even on podcasts right now, honestly, thinking I'm doing such great work and they get high off of it. 12:04 But when you're by yourself, what happens? That's the big question. Yeah. Sometimes that's the scariest part. Yeah. Maybe you can kind of paint the picture of your life leading up to this pivotal moment. And we'll kind of talk about that and go how far back you need to go. Yeah. Paint the picture. Yeah. Devin was like before. Yeah. So basically, gosh, what picture needs to be painted here? Happy life, happy childhood. know, I mean, certainly. 12:31 some shit in there, abusive birth father, I don't need to go back that far, but basically around, I had graduated from high school and I was in college and really was finding like, okay, starting to expand into life and things and like finding myself outside of my home and my family and just starting to branch out. And I had just graduated undergrad and was like, I think I was working for maybe six months. So just in my career and just in getting out there and my mom was murdered. 12:58 And the wild part of it is, is that I, was Thanksgiving, I was in grad, I was in undergrad and I was calling my mom to try to get her to come for Thanksgiving. Wasn't hearing back from her and I get these text messages back from her that are very obviously not her. Like we just know the voice of our parents, we just know the voice of our loved ones, even in text. And it was just like, that is not her. When I touched base with my sister. 13:21 who's younger than me was still living in, this is in Vegas where all this happened. That's where I grew up. Yeah, my sister was like, I got a text from mom too that was not her. Basically we go through filing a missing persons report and there was a whole delay with that. But all in all what ends up happening is my mom is missing and we can't find her. Me and my sister are saying, this is not my mother. Las Vegas CSI happened to have had Dateline NBC following Las Vegas CSI. So there's all this like, 13:49 Inquiry about what's really going on. It turns into this like whole big ordeal to where I am now So that the moment the life shift moment like there's two life shift moments that I really want to talk about and this is like the pre-life shift moment and I'll share about the life shift moment so like the pre-life shift was like that shock of Once we found out that she's actually dead. She's like her body is in the garage. Like she's for sure dead It was literally like this shock of like 14:14 I just collapsed to the floor and it's like, what the fuck is reality? Like, is this reality? Like. It's like you're in a movie. Exactly, exactly. It's like one of those things of like, this shit happens in movies. This shit isn't actually real. Like, this can't be real. Like, this shit doesn't actually happen, right? And so just like, it was like a blackout thing, moment of me just falling on the floor. Like when someone told you, like. I got the call from my sister. My sister is saying like, mom's dead. Like, she's dead. They found her body. Her body is sorry to be grown. 14:44 grotesque with people, but it's legit. I just want to share the gruesomeness of it because this is what I came back from is he cut up her body in pieces and put it into a trash can in cement. And so I'm literally being told this from my younger sister saying mom's been killed. This is this is what's happening. She's in shock. I'm in shock. And it's just like, what the fuck? Right. Because like, how do you believe that? I know. Right. Like it's it's so 15:10 out of any kind of thing you would ever imagine for anyone, even in a movie or something. So how do you even process that? can't. You Yeah, exactly. The processing. At that point, literally what ends up now knowing is our limbic system really shuts off and we're in frozen. It's the deer in the headlights just literally go into a sympathetic freeze in your nervous system. That's exactly what happened. 15:35 And then from there, you know, having to navigate, going back to my childhood home and seeing Las Vegas CSI and Dateline outside of my home and just being like, what? Like, and then walking through my childhood home and seeing my childhood bedroom with like blood splatter stuff to see like, and just being like, and then hearing. I write about all of this in my book, by the way. So don't need to go through all the details, but there's really intricate moments in this where I am literally going through this internal process. 16:02 where I'm trying to find a sense of reality and understanding and I can't, right? So I ended up basically going into this numb state for two or three years where I was disassociated, where I was literally living out, I was living outside of my body, just in survival. Like I didn't even know what to do. It's like, what do you do with yourself at that point? And I was depressed at all get outs of just like, everybody's going around in life as if life is normal and I'm over here just like. 16:31 tortured inside and there were so many timeframes crying in parking lots and like just being like the world moves on and how like nobody gives you like what am I supposed to do and I started having these conversations with the divine and with a higher spirit right God any of that however I personally relate to the larger entity of the universe as being the universe the divine did you before too before you started these conversations yeah yeah yeah so but my my relationship with God as growing up was that 17:00 My mom had a relationship with God that was very defined as being religious in church. And I was like, I don't connect to God in the same way. Even the word God is very triggering for me. And when I was developing my own relationship, the divine is really what it was just like, that is what speaks to me. Cause I'd always had a connection, but I always used to tell my mom is like, I feel the same thing you're talking about, but I don't relate to it the same way you do. Like I don't feel God in church. I feel God in nature. Right. And my mom, 17:30 My mom just couldn't understand that she was like, no, this is the only way to be with God. And I was like, no, it's not. I don't feel God in the way that you, when you tell me to, I feel it when I feel it. And how I feel it and that own, that own relationship with, and that's what I really guide people into finding their own relationship with the universe and all that is. But yeah, so honestly, it was actually in this timeframe, Matt, that me having conversations with the divine was where I developed my relationship with the divine is cause 17:59 I was asking like, what the fuck? Like, what the fuck is going on? And just being like, let's have a real conversation. Like, why the fuck would this happen? In general, why does this happen in life? Or these are the questions I'm just literally talking out to the middle of nowhere at this time, not knowing I would get answers back. Right? I'm just in a place of just searching for help, right? Spiling, right? you also hearing like, are people like, 18:27 bringing it up all the time because they know who you are? Or did you become like a known person in that? Because I feel like that would be a nightmare as well. Well, no, so not at this point. So at this point, I was living in, I was in Kansas when it happened. And then me and my fiance at the time were moving from Kansas to Florida. And so I literally, we were packed up, ready to go. I go to Vegas. 18:52 attend to detectives and all that. We fly back to Kansas, we jump in the car, pack up the car and go to Florida. Now I'm in a place where I'm all alone. I don't know anyone. So my isolation was even worse. It was even worse. And so this is where I was like searching for connections, searching for somebody, something. And so I just started talking to the air and just talking to this entity that I was like, I need answers. And so 19:17 Basically over that year as I was having this conversation with like, do I need to do? What goes on is I ended up, the only thing I knew how to do was like go back to school. And so I went and I applied for grad school and just like kind of compartmentalize, right? Kind of like set it to the side. Okay, I'm going to go back. I'm going to start my prereqs for grad school. And literally just was kind of like, I don't know what else to do. So like, let's compartmentalize it and put our head down and get to work. And so I did, and I was just working and I was 19:47 just kind of holding off on Bay until, so I was working as a physical therapy assistant. I was getting credits for my prereq for my grad program in physical therapy. And there was this woman in the clinic that looked right at me and she was like, you're not okay. I can see it. And she like, she just saw into my soul versus like what I was presenting, right? And she was just like, you're not okay. And I was like, no, I'm not okay. It was her seeing me, her like piercing through the veil and the mirage I was putting up. 20:17 And that was, that was, he was just starting to get into therapy. So she shared with me a resource of a community program to get into therapy. And I was really resistant because, just cause it just didn't feel resonant to me, but I didn't know what to do at that time. So I went ahead and leaned in and it was okay to talk about it, but it was like, are we going to do anything? Like, are we going to like, like, is it like, is it just about talking about it? Right? How do we fix it? 20:39 How do we fix it? And their fixing is medication, right? And so I was suggested to take antidepressants and everything inside of me was like, no, that's not my path. But I was like, I don't know what else to do. Let me trust a professional. So I took an antidepressant for two days and within two days, my suicidal thoughts skyrocketed. Like I was already suicidal, but then they just started to like ramp up and I was like, okay, that's not my path. I literally just got off those drugs and was just like, no, I have to find my own path through this. 21:09 And so that's when I started to really have these self inquiries and everything. Fast forward to I ended up getting into PT school. That was a really cool divine creation. Yeah, is it true to share that? Yeah, I had applied to all PT schools in the Florida area. And in the last moments of me, there's like a general application for PT school where you can just click buttons and apply to other schools. And I was like, where else can I apply to that? I don't really need to do much else. And Duke University came up and I was like, I... 21:38 I don't associate with like, I never came for money. I didn't ever think I'd be able to go to a school with that. But all I needed to do was write an essay. And so I wrote an essay. Long story short, I ended up having an interview at Duke and ended up getting into Duke. And it was like this big thing of like, despite my pain, following this divine, like there was just something, at the time I did not know that I was really following my intuition. I was following these divine messages. It just made sense at the time of like, 22:05 There's a light here. There's something here for me to get excited about in some way amongst my pain. So anyhow, I go to PT school. I'm in the first semester of PT school, which again, I talk about in the book, is like the most intense part of PT school is the first semester where it's kind of like, are you gonna make it? Are you here? Are you all in? It's like the weed out semester. It was hard. It was very difficult and I was... 22:29 depressed already and basically I thought I was okay having gone to therapy before PT school. get to PT school, I'm thrown into the demands and I'm back into a deeper depression because my resources to my demand is imbalanced, right? Well, and you're also probably wearing a mask, which is very heavy. Totally. Right? It's hard to perform 24 hours a day or 20 hours a day or whatever you're doing. 22:54 Exactly. Right. And absolutely in PT school, you're like, I'm OK, even telling yourself, I'm OK, I'm OK, I'm OK. I can do this. I'm OK. It's exhausting. Exactly. Even if you're not doing anything extra, just pretending or trying to convince yourself that you are a normal functioning whatever normal is, but you're human and you're doing the things that nobody knows what's actually happening inside. It's exhausting. It's actually more exhausting to put on that mask and do the do the twofold. 23:22 compartmentalization of yourself. It actually pulls from our resources even more, right? Yeah. And so, yeah, so I became suicidal again and was like really ready to do it. Like was full on like, okay, like I just cannot because even at that point now I'm a full semester into PT school and the first thought was like, I can't not finish PT school. I'm already 30 grand in debt. Like, I can't like, I just felt like held where it was just like, there's no escape. So the only escape was death at this point, right? And I was really sensationalizing that and just thinking, 23:52 This is my way out, right? But I didn't know how to kill myself because I didn't want to be in more pain. I was like, I don't want to trade pain for pain. And I know this is a little bit of a tough conversation for people, but I like to talk about it because it's very real that you're going to we like balance out like we're debating, you know. So in my debate, basically in my debate, I was really leaning towards going ahead and killing myself. And when I started to lean into that idea, I heard the loudest no I have ever heard in my life. 24:20 It was like a voice right here saying no, like screaming at me no. And I was in the bathroom by myself and I'm hearing this no and I'm like what the fuck? And then I'm like, and I started talking to this voice and I was like okay, okay, okay, okay. If I'm not supposed to do that like, and so this is I heard is no, this is not your story. This is not how your story ends. Your story is meant to be shared with other people. 24:49 And I was like, okay. Okay. So if I, if I'm supposed to be doing that, if that's what this is all about, I need help. Like I need, like I need, I need support in this. Like I need to know that like, I'm not just, you know, and basically I told the voice was like, we need to go all in then. I can't half ass this life. Like if we're going to do it, let's like fully live. Let's not half ass it. And I didn't know at the time what all in meant at the time. 25:19 And so every stage, it's been a new realization of what the all in means. And so I love how in our pre recording conversation, and because I was even going to bring it up is that it ended up being multiple life shift or pivot points along the way. But this was like the big one to where in that moment, I decided not to kill myself and decided to go all in, not knowing what that meant, not knowing what that looked like, but was like, OK, I have some resource that I'm connecting to now. 25:49 Yeah, exactly. And so from that moment forward, it was like, okay, here we go. Yeah, let's let's build instead of hide. Well, it's probably I would say that like before even building is like unraveling. Honestly, right before you build you unravel. What was this time period like? I mean, how many years are you talking from when your mother was killed to this point when you heard that? 26:17 Like two and a half, three years. Two and a half. And that's a long time to live in this like dark shadow. When you look back at that time, do you remember that time? Yes and no. Like there's aspects that I remember about it, but like I often talk about like in my disassociated state, it is remarkable to me. It's like, how did I survive that? Like how do we as human beings in our consciousness figure out how to compartmentalize 26:46 to still carry on the motions of the day to day and suspend the part of us that's in immense pain. I'm just like, that's remarkable. So in some ways I remember it and other ways I don't. I can relate to that. I I feel like in some of my deeper grief periods, you know, the 20 years that it took me to kind of grieve my mom, I feel like I had amnesia. Like there are periods of my life in which I don't remember it. And I think maybe that's just. 27:12 our brains and bodies protecting us from self protective mechanism from the scariness. Yeah, well, we can only handle so much energy at one point in time. And this is actually where the somatic healing came in was that. So somatization is when we have emotional experiences that are just way too much in the moment that we can't process, what we do is we kind of shove them into our body and kind of store them. And then they're just kind of sitting there fermenting because none of us learned how to none of us learned how to like deal with them or 27:42 to unravel them to evoke like to clean house. We never learned to do that. And so sweep it under the rug. Yep. And that's usually the dynamics with grief for sure that our culture has is there's just not space for it. And most people just don't want to go there. Was it especially challenging face? I mean, I guess you don't really have something to compare it to, but especially challenging, grieving, losing your mother in that way that it is way more public. 28:08 than something like my mom died in an accident. was a single vehicle accident. I mean, maybe there was a couple of newspaper articles about it, but it wasn't something that was known. Is it really hard to grieve that knowing that other people know all the details and all the pieces that come along with how you lost someone you love so much? Yeah, I would definitely say that and more so because of 28:35 the avenue in which it was shared. Like it wasn't only news articles, like to have a TV show on Dateline where, okay, first and foremost, my sister's 20 years old. She gets approached by Dateline asking, can we do this episode? And she calls me and I'm like, absolutely not. This is not entertainment because those shows are entertainment for people. And I was like, these are real people's lives. And that was like where I'm like. 28:57 I'm even hurting for all those people that like that I didn't even aware of like all the like when all these stories come out like there's real families that are struggling. So yeah, in that amnesia kind of state, I remember like staring at the TV when the episode was on, I'm literally looking at my mom's murderer. Like that was actually more the truth. I'm seeing my sister had like given Dateline these pictures. So I didn't do the interview my sister did because she thought she was like doing service to my mom's story. 29:24 I realized it was more, I saw it as sensationalization of it all, right? And so yeah, so like they literally like showed pictures of me when I was growing up, pictures of my family home, and like videos of the murderer literally confessing. He confessed for like six hours and they showed segments of him and I just never thought I would see his face. And so like seeing his face and I'm literally And like hearing it. Yeah, hearing his voice, all of it. And I'm like- 29:50 That I remember because I remember being on the couch looking at the TV and just being like, again, is this reality? Like, is this my reality? Is this my life? Is this happening right now? Like, this shit happens. And yeah, so it was really weird to have that. It was also very weird because in Vegas, things get super duper sensationalized. And they had taken the local the local media had taken some aspects of the story because the guy had like 30:17 taken my mom's car and gone onto the strip and done some things. And basically there was like this whole mixing of who my mom was and there was articles about my mom talking and it was just like, that's not who my mom is. And it was just the way that that works. that was really tough to have to navigate in my healing for sure. For sure. Yeah. And I think it's like something that is hard to relate to from someone that has grieved in a different way. know, like, cause mine is like, 30:48 this is not going to come out correctly, however, whatever is going to come out of my mouth now. But I think of, you know, I have to tell people about my story, right? Like, I feel like I don't have to. I choose to tell people about my story. I choose to tell people how my mom died and those elements. But but when you meet people, they might already know they might have seen this. They might have seen more details than you might have ever wanted to share with people. 31:17 And I could see how that could be really complicated in the sense of like, you have nothing you can keep private about it because it is out there and you could run into it at any point in time. True. It's true. Yeah. That's actually when I went to go publish my book is probably where my most resistance and fear came was. Cause to be honest, up until now, it's, I haven't actually experienced where somebody had heard my story before meeting me. It's more of like, they hear my story and they're just like, 31:45 how are you, to be honest most times, how are you so educated and awesome? My patients are like, and then I share my story and I'm like, yeah, it came out of all of this, right? That's actually, but when I went to go publish my book and I was talking to my PR agent about getting onto podcasts and talking about media and everything, she had asked me, what if a local, like local news in Vegas, or what if this happens, is like, are you okay with that? And it was like, now I am. We're talking like, I'm now 15 years later from everything to where, 32:15 The stability I have in myself now is very different that I can talk about things and because I'm not identified by the experience anymore. thankfully, I really didn't have that along the journey because of locations where I was and people didn't know. And it's actually nowadays, it's more of me sharing the story and people then going back and because everybody's nosy and wants to go Google things, right? And they go back and like, look at things. Yeah, it is a shock for people because most like answered to 32:45 secondarily answer your question of like the shock that comes from it because it is very different when you expect a loved one to go like if they're ill or But you know many people lose their parents in car accidents and plane accidents and these sort of things So it is a difference in the shock of a like sudden loss But there's so much more entangled into my story that that has had it's a lot of complex healing and I'm just so grateful for somatic somatic healing like the work that I did for myself and now help clients with is 33:14 I would have not been able to talk about this stuff without totally breaking down, without truly healing and separating from the story in the functional way, not like in a compartmentalistic, but like realizing, okay, this happened. It's not the totality of my life. It's not the totality of me. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And it wasn't a decision you made. And I would even venture to say the years after were not really decisions you made. It was you surviving. 33:38 Yeah, until a point where you didn't want to survive anymore, but then you chose to because of the conversations you were having with the divine and what you said that you've always kind of developed that relationship. I think so many of us kind of walk through like zombies after kind of these moments just because we don't know what to do. So we don't do anything. We just kind of keep going until until it's time until we're ready until something intervenes and we're able to do that. 34:07 Have you, you just kind of mentioned it, but I'm wondering, have you experienced since this a loss in a different way of someone that you love? Pets. Which in some ways can have like my, guy Leo, he passed like two years ago and he was actually the pup that I got in grad school. So he was like a real like emotional companion for me that really held a space. you in different phases. Yeah. Like he saw me in like the pain, right? And that's my guy, Mikey right here. 34:37 And so they like, that's a big meaningful connection that he saw me in my darkest hour when like nobody else sees you. Right. And funny enough is he had trauma himself and I didn't realize it when I adopted him. And so he was like my trauma companion. Right. And so when I lost him, it was this real interesting battle. But then also too, I ended up, he ended up having the most natural passing that you could possibly have. Like he was in my lap and I got to, so I do the work I do, literally 35:05 got to help him pass over and energetically like help him gracefully pass over and saw him like go through doggy heaven and just like make the smooth transition. And so it was the most beautiful healing thing to have an experience where a being can leave gracefully and in love and be held. And I was like, I wanna go like that. Like, don't we all? Yeah, I wanna go the way Leo went. Thankfully I have not had. 35:31 I could get into the story about my dad almost dying and me saving him in the hospital from COVID, but that's a whole other episode. Yeah, no, the reason I asked that question is I lost my mom when I was eight, struggled with that, but I got really close with my grandmother. My dad's mother kind of took the role of mother and she unfortunately was diagnosed with cancer and was kind of meeting her end. And as it was happening, because of the journey that I had, 35:59 the terrible, messy, disgusting grief journey that I had after losing my mom, I knew I wanted to do this one differently. And so like I leaned in and I had the conversations and I didn't leave her bedside until the last breath, you know, like I did all the things. For me, I look at that as like this weird silver lining from the first instance of losing my first mother figure or my mom. 36:27 I would, I don't think I would have done all those things because I didn't realize what it feels like when someone is ripped from your life. It's just such a different experience. And so like, if I could ever paint a silver lining of such a hard experience early in my life, it becomes something like that of how I can not only help myself in the grief journey of losing my grandmother, but also help my grandmother in feeling safe and however that 36:56 feels towards the end to kind of move to the next space. And so curious how like how that changes you but pet loss, I lost Mikey last year. And I'll tell you losing my mom in the way I did and then losing my grandmother in the way I did, I did not prepare me to losing a dog. You know, I got him in the same kind of similar situation of like I hadn't healed yet. So he had seen me in those versions and then saw me kind of move through the world differently. And we kind of helped each other for 14 and a half years and you're just like, 37:25 but like losing a shadow is a total mind F word, know, like it's just like, like, wow. So it's really curious. And that's kind of where that question came from, wondering, you know, do you, and it seems like you do look at end of life differently, maybe now? Through this journey? Dramatically, because that's what I see is like, so my birth name is Devon DeGriff. 37:51 And what I realized what that actually mean is the divine of grief. I'm literally here to show people and be a beacon that there is divinity in grief. And the divinity of grief is, that once you experience grief, not only can you hold the darkness more, could just be more, like it's just, you're just, you can't deny it. It's just there. Our shadow, the darkness of life is here. And so you just drop the illusion that you can escape from it. Cause it's just like, you have to accept the Even though we want to. 38:20 Even though we want to, right? But that's what I'm here to tell people is like, it's the acceptance that the darkness is part of this experience, but by virtue of accepting the darkness and really honestly going into the darkness to experience is what has allowed me to also experience the whole other side of things of having a joyful life. But it's that the complimentary aspect of these two seemingly opposite ends of the spectrum, but they're here to compliment each other. And so I look at the end of life in a very different way. 38:50 and help people through darkness in their own way, whether it be that someone has literal losses of losing someone to death or the loss of your sense of self. A lot of people coming into me are coming with chronic illness or coming with chronic fatigue or chronic pain or coming online saying, I just don't feel like myself and I heard that you can help me with that. There's grief in that. There's grief in you feeling disconnected from yourself and feeling like you could only focus on the dark shit parts of your life. 39:20 but that's where the transformation happens is in the darkness is through the shadow. But if we don't have this realness of that, this is just part of it. What most people are doing is trying to live in the rainbows and butterflies and unicorns and pretending that we're okay. And so absolutely I look at the end of life differently and I also guide and help other people to see that like, you're gonna honestly, like it's a little, but you're gonna die too. I'm gonna die too. So it's like, let's live now. 39:50 Like that's actually like the my mom died when she was 44. Like what if like I had like for the first years I was like what if I die at 44? Right? So like you change your orientation to what you're doing with your life. If you if you realize you it's not a guarantee of how much time you got left. Yeah. No, I thought I was I thought 32. My mom was 32 and I thought that's it. I didn't plan for anything after 32 even though she died in an accident and it wasn't like hereditary or anything like that. 40:19 It was like, just really didn't think that there were, knew people around me were older than that. But for me, it felt very stunted. And so when I turned 33, I'm like, oh man, I really should have planned for this. You know, cause like I wasn't, was living so deep in that darkness and I didn't know how to do anything with it. And for me, the way I got out of the darkness was I had another dark moment in work. Like work was like, there was a situation at work where I was just like, 40:48 this is miserable. And so I went to therapy for that, and it unlocked, you know, and then it made me open to unlocking like the realization which my therapist helped me find, which is so logical, but I didn't think about it is that, you know, like every decision that I had made since my mom died was out of fear was that fear of losing someone else if I made the wrong decision. And, and I think, that makes a lot of sense. But oops, I waited 20 years to figure that one out. 41:16 So, you I think sometimes the darkness leads us to these places and it opens doors like to you, it was like, as dark as we can get. And then you hear this voice telling you to like, shut up, like, no, that's not the right decision. Like, and stop, like, hold up, you're going too far now, figure it out. And so you kind of drew the line in the sand and move to the healing and it didn't happen overnight, right? Like, God no. It's been 15 41:46 Was there like an eye opening for you in that like new taking intentional steps forward to kind of unravel and then build intentionally? Was there like an aha moment? Like, oh, this is working. I'm feeling different. Yeah. Yeah. The two I want to speak to because they relate to each other. The first one was when I took my first mindfulness course. 42:10 So when I was at Duke, there was a community program where I just felt a call to go to this like weekend workshop for a couple hours on mindfulness. And it was about being in your body. So like feeling your feet on the floor and feeling like, what is it like when you're actually putting a grape in your mouth and really tasting it and being in the central experience of living. And it was me coming back to my body and realizing, oh, I wasn't here. I'm disconnected. And that was like one these first steps of realizing how bad it really was, right? Like how bad my disconnection was. And so I think I started like. 42:38 guided meditations at that point. But then two years later when I moved to Oregon here, which again, that I just like told the divine like, take me where I'm supposed to go and was led to Eugene, Oregon here. And when I got here, within a month or two, I was offered an opportunity to go to a breathing and meditation course. And it was touted to like reduce angst. Like there was research on it. wasn't only like, there was a teacher and it was of the Indian Hindu, not really Hindu, but of yogic traditions more so. 43:07 And then it was a recommendation. So I went and I took it and I was doing the breathing practice and after one week of doing the breathing practice. So I felt an effect after the workshop. It's like a two or three day workshop, but then I just felt compelled to do the practice they were suggesting. And after a week of doing this practice of this, a breath work and a meditation, after a week, so before this point, I was sleeping like 12, 13 hours a day. I was basically just like sleeping depressed, go to work. 43:35 go back to sleep and just like in that survival, like bare minimum don't want to be awake. Don't want to be awake basically, right? And that's deep depression. Yeah, deep depression. Yeah, it was just like, I just don't want to so minimum to sustain money for food, basically, because you're tired. You just don't want to you just don't like, I just don't want to be awake. Yep. So a week after doing this practice, I woke up after eight hours, all this energy. And I was like, 44:03 the hell do do now? What do I do with this? And so that's when I really got into it. I know, right? And so then I started, I was just doing my breath work and meditation and starting healing process of looking inside through meditation and through somatic healing and just like excavating, excavating and having it to where I'm this, I'm not that. I'm this, I'm not that. that was the real big shift was starting to get into mindfulness and meditation because 44:30 you're actually looking at the darkness and looking at what's going on inside. And so I want to tie that back into what you were talking about earlier real quick was that like the darkness is what transforms us. And if we're denying the darkness is that's where we're denying that opportunity to transform. we'll usually, what I tell people is you'll usually have things happen again, kind of like you did to where it's like you weren't willing to look at it then. then universe is like, Hey, oh, nudge nudge here again. 44:58 And so, yeah, so for me, it was because I'd already had that conversation and already made that decision with the divine to say, okay, I'm going all in. I kept getting these breadcrumbs to be led to things and I was led to this breath practice that was the game changer for the way I was holding the experiences in my body and my nervous system and my being, right? And just being able to slowly excavate those out and be de-identified from them. But that was the beginning of it. Yeah, and I think finding something that works that 45:29 gives you proof something works. Like there's hope that like I can keep moving or trying or doing. I think sometimes we're afraid to even start things because we're like, oh, that's not going to work or, know, but being open to it and trying different things. think even in the sense of like talk therapy, I've talked to people that are like afraid of it because they're like, whatever, whatever the excuse that we all carry at some point in time about something. Yeah. And I was like, man, you got to try it, but you have to know. 45:58 also that it might not be your thing. It also might not be your person on the first time. Might not be your personal a second time, you know? And so you do kind of have to be open to or have hope that that there is something out there that you can continue trying. And it sounds like you were picking up those breadcrumbs and you were trying the things. And did you experience any things that you tried that you were just like, no, not this kind of like the medication that you did early on? 46:27 That was the main one. was very much like a, well, cause it just went down this path of like, this is what I'm worse. What, my whole thing is about, what my whole thing is about. it's like, if I was relying on other people to say what my path is, like that's what didn't work. Basically. That's what definitely didn't work is like, it was once I had clarity of what is my path and where does my guidance come from? And when I'm aligned to that, that's what works. 46:53 And that's what I guide people into is that you gotta lean into that there is a part of yourself within yourself, deep in those trenches that does know the path out of the trenches. But if you're looking outside of yourself for that, then you're usually gonna be confused. It's not to say that we don't need professionals and we don't need help and resources, but when you meet a therapist and you just get that gut feeling of like, I'm just not really vibing with them. Or if you meet a therapist and you're like, oh my gosh, for some reason I just feel connected to them. 47:22 Listen to that. Like that's the stuff that's like your inner knowing and that's probably hard to break with the people you work with at first or some people you would think so, but it's actually really quite easy because our spirit. just think of like growing up and it's like we just have, we all want the how to manual. We all like so we're conditioned to do that and we're not conditioned to trust ourselves to trust our into it that we can do it yet. 47:51 so many of us overcome these gigantic things in our lives and then we look back and we're like, how did I get here? We did it. So like even people that aren't trying to be quote unquote resilient, a lot of them get to this place and they are able to look back and go, I did it. But then they still don't trust themselves. They still want to move to the next thing. Well, it's just that realization of that like 48:15 Are your spirit, your divinity is actually guiding more, guiding you more than you even realize. But if you connect into it and you're consciously doing that, that's where you take off. But even like in that example, you're saying of like, you don't realize that you were really doing anything. It's like, your divinity is here. No matter what, you just can't get rid of it. You can, you could be in denial that it exists. You could be resisting it. It's, it's, it's here, baby. It's here to support you, right? It kept you alive for those two years. And that's what I say is, is that that's what kept me alive. That's what keeps 48:42 kept you alive, that's what kept any of us alive. That's why you're still here because if you weren't, if there wasn't something in you compelling you to stay here and learn the lesson that you're here to learn and come to you living your full life and your full potential, you'd already be gone. I think there's something about humans where if it gets scary, it's so easy to quit. You know, like for me, I think of my grief journey. I think there was a period of time when I was 16, I was in an English class and I, 49:12 we had to write like a personal narrative. And it was the first time that I chose to write about my mom dying. And I did it and it was like a bloodletting. It was like a letting some air out of a balloon that's about to pop. But it was so scary that I pushed it all back down and like, and then like ran away from it again. I got a taste of it and how hard it was going to be. And I guess I just wasn't ready. I wasn't ready to trust that I could do it. I didn't have anyone around me that 49:41 that would have been able to support me because they didn't have the tools either. People weren't talking about it. So, you know, like there were a lot of things kind of against me, but maybe have I leaned into my own intuition and feelings. Maybe things would be different. But then maybe I wouldn't be having these conversations now. Yeah. So it's I don't know. I kind of look at that 16 year old like, damn it. I know what all of us would write like a hindsight. Twenty twenty is like any one of us. If we knew what we knew now, we would have done something back. 50:09 different back then, but it's more of it's like, what do we do from here forward? It's like when we have these conscious conversations more and more nowadays, it's like, it brings in an awareness and then you have a choice from this moment forward. Okay, how do I want to move from this moment forth? Could this be another life shift right now? Right? And like, can I orient? Yes. Like it can be every moment has this opportunity for us to shift our awareness and shift our perspective. And truth be told, we just get better and better and better at it. 50:38 And when we have resources and support of other people, we are capable of doing more. that's why I'm here out in the world sharing the story and telling people, if this is you, don't go it alone, reach out for the resource. And know that what I'm going to end up doing is guiding you back to yourself, because that's really where the magic happens. But there's a reason why all of us, it's not natural. It's not our first go-to. This is a conditioning, and it's actually part of 51:06 In shamanism and in a lot of the basically personal development, it's actually called the hero's journey. And every single one of us are going on a hero's journey to where we are this lost child who believes us to be this small frail thing that should be fearful and that we're not viable in the world. And something's going to happen in our lives to wake us up. And usually we're going to meet someone in our lives. In the hero's journey, they talk about meeting the wise man or meeting the wise woman. It's like there's something, there's someone that's going to tell you something. 51:34 or shift your perspective in some way. And then from there, you then shift your perspective and realize what your life is actually about and who you really are. And then you come into sharing that gift with the world. But where most people, especially in our modern day society, is they never realize who they really are. In ancient traditions, they would actually have these ceremonies to teach their children of like... 51:58 in a tribe, like here's here's what your life is actually about. And so in our modern world, we're all kind of like going at it our own and just flailing flailing. So I'm finding it really fascinating how we're going in collective consciousness of having more podcasts and having more conversations about these things. Because the wise person that could be could be a little snippet in a podcast that one day you just need to hear and you're like, holy shit, my my perspective is different. So that's the hope. Yeah, that's the hope, right? That's like why we do this. Like my thought. 52:28 is always like, if every episode finds the ears that needed to hear that story that day, we win. Like you win because that person feels either hope or less alone or feels like they have another piece of information that can push them down the road. So totally, totally. You're to probably not like this question, but I like to ask it anyway. So 2025, Devin, if you could, if you could go back to 52:56 the version of you that just hung up the phone after you talked to your sister that day. there anything that you would want to tell her about this hard journey she was about to go on? Like this will shape and define you in the most glorious way possible. Like it's like right at that moment, it's like I would have, it's like I literally see myself like catching her and just being like, you're held, you're loved, I got you. 53:27 Yeah. No matter the story, will tell you 90 % of the people that I have a similar question for would just like hug that version of them before, you know, or right after that moment and just let them know that they're not alone. Because I think even though logically we know we're not the only person that's ever experienced this, we often feel that way in that moment. And you're like, nobody can relate to me. I can't tell anyone about it. just 53:54 so wild and like I thought I was the only kid with a dead mom and it was like, I knew logically it wasn't but it really felt like that for a long time. And so I think it's beautiful to think about those younger versions of ourselves and just give them some love, some compassion. Totally and that's honestly what ends up happening. That's what healing is, is like nine times out of 10 when I'm doing healing sessions, we're going back to recover the parts that we abandoned that needed us right then and there. And so I love that you gave that to me, thank you because that's what healing is. 54:23 And for you to be a person outside of my network to say, hey, Devin, there's another aspect of yourself that you could still hold, right? But that's what we're doing is when I compartmentalized her and just kind of abandoned her, because I didn't know how, we reclaim these parts by going back and holding them, seeing them, and hugging them. Yeah, it's so important. for gift, Matt. Thank you for going down the road of that question. Some people are like, no, can't do it. 54:50 You know, I think it's beautiful. think it's important to look at these pieces, whether we want to or not, and kind of see how that version of us brought us to this point in our life. So if someone is listening and they're really vibing with you and want to know more about you, how can they find your book, your services? Like, how do they get in your circle and, like, bother you with their problems? I would love to be bothered by your problems. So everything is on my main website, which is drdevindegreef.com. 55:18 So you can see, you can sign up for my newsletter for any updates. You can find the links to my book, all the things, any of my programs. If you wanna schedule a free discovery call so we can have a chat to see if, are we a good fit? What's going on? We can do that too, but it's just all centrally on my main website. I encourage anyone out there, if something that Devin said today like resonated with you or made sense in your own life or helped you put some pieces together. 55:44 please bug her and just let her know, even if it's just like, hey, when you said XYZ, it really made me think about this in my own life. think maybe I'm speaking for her, but she might want to hear that. Well, yeah. And then what I would say is it's because it's actually going to end up be healing for the both of us. Like if somebody reaches out and they're like taking that bold, brave action to be like, I don't even know this chick, but thanks for saying just thanks for saying your piece. That's healing for you, whoever reaches out to me. And then for me to receive that, it's freaking healing for me to know there's there's there's a reason my I'm 56:13 My purpose is playing out. So I would love to receive those messages. But if anything, I invite you to actually be selfish and do it for yourself if nothing else. Yeah, no, I love it. You are not alone if you're listening and you feel a certain way or you feel like what you're experiencing no one else has. We will hold that space for you and we will listen to you. And I bet there are some similarities in the way that we feel about things in our lives to what you're experiencing now. So thank you, Devin, for just coming on this journey wherever. 56:42 we didn't know it was gonna go. I think it was a beautiful conversation. Yeah, for me too. Thanks so much for holding the space and being in the present moment to allow the conversation to just unfold organically and naturally. I think it's so important. I think that if other people can do more of that in the world, I think we're gonna take ourselves to some new heights, you know, and be able to connect in different ways. So thanks again for being a part of this. Thank you all for listening and I will be back next week with a brand new episode. Thanks again, Devin. 57:22 For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com