Self-Worth: The Life She Fought For

Matt Gilhooly (00:00)
There's a version of you that already knows the answer, even when your brain is still making charts. Joy spent three days and three nights trying to logic her way out of a decision that her gut had already made. Leave China, start over, figure it out from there. What followed was not necessarily a straight line, a visa rejection, an isolating marriage, and a moment on the floor of a quiet apartment when something in her finally said enough. In this conversation, Joy shares how she fought her way into this country.

out of a relationship that was slowly shrinking her and into a life built entirely on her own terms.

Matt Gilhooly (01:26)
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the LifeShift Podcast. I am here with Joy. Hello, Joy. Do you live up to your name? Like your name is Joy, so.

Joy Kong, MD (01:31)
Hello, Matt.

I've

trying all my life. No pressure.

Matt Gilhooly (01:37)
No pressure. I love that. Well,

thank you for wanting to be a part of the Life Shift podcast. This, I don't know how to describe this other than the way I describe it in every episode is just like this, this experience that I never could have dreamed of for myself to be able to talk to so many people about such wildly different stories and at the same time realize how similar

we are as humans in the way that we feel about certain things, the way that we approach, the fears that we have, all the things that come along with being a human. And it's just been such a refreshing experience over the last four years to just be able to talk to people like yourself that I probably never would have bumped into in the world, you know? And now we have this opportunity to have this conversation. So thank you for just wanting to be a part of this.

Joy Kong, MD (02:27)
Yeah, and

it's just to give listeners some sense of comfort to just know that being a human is not easy. It's not. But on the other hand, it's actually it is actually rather relaxing because if you have ever gone on journeys, if anyone were jumping straight into something that's completely different, if anyone ever had had psychedelic experiences.

Matt Gilhooly (02:33)
No.

Joy Kong, MD (02:50)
And, you know, it can be really fast. So there are all kinds of different experiences. That's when I realized the human experience, you know, even though it may seem stressful, it may seem difficult and, you know, you may have all this pressure from all the things that you have to deal with, but still, it's moment by moment. There's still a relaxing element about being a human, but...

Matt Gilhooly (03:13)
You know, I've never thought of that.

I like that approach. I mean, it makes sense. think you know what, what comes up in my mind when you say something like that is that I think had we known that all along growing up, so many of us grew up with these societal expectations of us or rules that we have to follow. And so that creates some kind of pressure on ourselves to like,

Like we were joking, you're trying to live up to your name, Joy, you know, like there's this pressure to it. And if we had known all along that this is our journey to take and we can take it and make it however we want to, most of us don't get that luxury right from birth, but some people do. I think we would probably really resonate with the idea of life being this like slow, relaxing type journey.

Joy Kong, MD (04:03)
Just think about when you eat your meals. I mean you just get to really enjoy it. How lucky is that right?

Matt Gilhooly (04:11)
Well, I love your perspective. Here I

am like thinking of all the people that just shove a protein bar in their mouth because they got to run to the next meeting or something like that. Yeah. So you're lying to me. No, that's I think that's I mean, I think it's a great perspective. I am curious to see how your life brought you to that. Did you always think that way? Okay, so that's a no.

Joy Kong, MD (04:18)
sounds like me.

Okay.

Yes. And if you know how busy I am, I wouldn't use the word relaxing, but really, if you really, really pause to think of because I think so many people are trapped in this matrix. Really, this is a matrix we're trapped in. We get to enjoy and we forget this is one way of existing. I think people just

Matt Gilhooly (04:39)
to hear the relaxing life.

Joy Kong, MD (04:57)
Of course, I had no idea, you know, because that's all I could see when I was a little kid growing up. Of course, I grew up in China, you know, really groomed to be a little communist. I mean, I didn't, which means is atheism, meaning that there's nothing beyond what you cannot see. So it's all about right. Nothing. No God, no spirit. So that's what I grew up with. So everything I could see, that's all I thought there was.

So that's a huge shift in evolution of my own consciousness.

Matt Gilhooly (05:26)
Yeah. Well, lucky you in that way. I'm sure there are trials and tribulations along the way, which we'll get into. But before we do that, can you just tell us who you are in 2026? Like, how do you show up in the world? How do you identify these days?

Joy Kong, MD (05:42)
Well, I definitely have this identity of being a doctor, of a healer. So I really resonate with more of a doctor, a scientist, and a healer. There's a big part of me wanting to heal people in a very holistic way, all around, right? Their psychology, their physicality, and their spirituality. So everything wrapped together, you I want people to be full and whole.

and truly have joy, right? And you can't have joy if you're not physically well, psychologically sound or spiritually connected. So you have to have all three all figured out in a sense to really reach a place that's truly beautiful. So anyhow, so that's the healer aspect of me that, you know, I'm not just a doctor, right? I'm not just about the body. I'm about so much more.

And then I evolved from being a doctor. I actually studied psychiatry, no surprise, wanting to encompass everything, right? The brain, thoughts, our emotions. So I went into psychiatry, but then I switched after doing psychiatry for 11 years, I switched into integrative and regenerative medicine, anti-aging medicine, because to me, that's where the real medicine is.

which is to look at the body as a very complex whole. And there are many, many levels that we need to address. Even if you're just looking at a single organ, even if you just want to fix your knee, you still need to know what is going on in the rest of your body. So I think so many, well, the modern medicine, the conventional medicine has forgotten that everything is connected to each other. So I want to be the doctor that respect

the complexity of biology. And so I switched into anti-aging medicine and became enamored with stem cell therapy. So stem cells to me is the ultimate intelligence hack. So we're really borrowing the intelligence that made us a long time ago from a single cell to a complex walking universe. That kind of intelligence embedded in that one cell.

Matt Gilhooly (07:55)
Mm-hmm.

Joy Kong, MD (08:04)
to harness even just a little portion of it to help our body now to repair and fight diseases and injuries and thrive and become, reach a younger state. So that's what I became really passionate about stem cells. And I've been educating the public, I've been educating physicians, I founded an academy. And then I went from being just a physician to an entrepreneur as well, because I saw that

If I truly want to make a real difference in the world, I have to reach scale. If I'm just sitting in my clinic here in Los Angeles, seeing patients day in and day out, there's only so many people I can see. I have a human capacity. But if I teach a hundred or a thousand doctors and they all go out there and start seeing patients, boy, am I making an impact in the world. So that you have to achieve through entrepreneurship. can't just sit on.

you know, by yourself to try to do it on your own. So then I started not only the Academy where I trained doctors, but also a stem cell company where I developed stem cell products that now we're shipping to doctors all around the country. And then I also started to develop products for skincare. So now I have natural skincare product, Charo Omni, so cosmetic company, where we have natural product

infused with stem cells and peptides. So that's pretty exciting because we can do a lot for the outside of our body. You know, what I send to doctors are injectables. So we can help the body heal from the inside out. But then I have products to help it from outside in. yeah, so that's, that's kind of what I do. I have a podcast and, and, you know, keep trying to educate and connect with people. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (09:37)
Right.

Yeah.

Wow. So you're slightly busy, slightly interested in helping others. I mean, that's, that's a that's a tall order that you've created for yourself. And you might be the only person that I've ever heard say that you're enamored with stem cells. So I love that. I love that. So I mean, if we distill it down, you are a true helper. Like your goal here is to help people have

Joy Kong, MD (10:09)
yes, I'm in love.

Matt Gilhooly (10:21)
the best life that they could have or the best existence or if we were to distill it,

Joy Kong, MD (10:26)
Yeah,

yeah, I want to be effective. I've always wanted to be someone that can help. I can get some things done, right? I can be really helpful. So that shows that I'm, as an organism existing in this universe, I have some abilities. I can do something. So I really, love being able to do things. started with helping my mom with her back.

pain. So when I was massaging her, I think I was 12 years old, I was massaging her and I was like, I'm feeling this healer inside of me. I think I can make her feel better. So I was like using my energy is sending her my yeah, so so that that that that yeah, that the drive to make better to make people suffer less, because I don't like seeing people suffer. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (10:58)
Nice.

Well, you're in the right country for trying to make people suffer less. Good luck. So I'm sure that your journey has brought you here. But even though even back to 12, you're saying that you were starting to feel these things. Maybe can you paint the picture of of who joy was before the main pivotal moment that we're going to center today around? Because I'm sure that propelled you even more into what you're doing now. But who is the before version?

Joy Kong, MD (11:18)
Okay.

Yeah, so I mentioned being groomed as a little communist. I was born in the eye of cultural revolution, which was between 1966 to 76. So when China was dirt poor, was dirt poor. I grew up in a kind of intellectual elite environment because I grew up on the best university in China, one of the best, one of the two top universities. So my dad is a professor.

And my mom teaches high school, so everyone lives on the university campus. So that's my environment. It was all about learning, you know, just be the best you can, be civil, be polite. So that's how I grew up. And I was always very independent minded, which did not fit very well in the Chinese society because they really value conformity.

And it's if you try to stick your head out, then you probably going to get shot. So I was criticized a lot. I was always in trouble. I was in the principal's office a lot. Yeah. So I was a troublemaker because I don't like rules. Not because I don't like rules that don't make sense because I like it when I can comprehend that this is for the good of something. But when it's just somebody's arbitrary rule.

Matt Gilhooly (13:01)
Right.

Joy Kong, MD (13:01)
then

I think it's, then it's on my rule. if it doesn't tell you the story I wrote about in my journal, my parents gave up on trying to discipline me because when I was a little kid, they will get so frustrated trying to make me submit. And I hadn't made up my mind that I would rather die than submitting. So they will be hitting me, two of them.

Matt Gilhooly (13:04)
So you weren't scared into submission from getting in trouble? Okay.

Joy Kong, MD (13:29)
One will be holding me down. The other one will be hitting me with a broomstick. will be in a lot of pain. And they will, they, they, they scream, they were like, say you're wrong. And now just scream back, not wrong. And then they will hit me more. And they say, say you're wrong. And I screamed back, not wrong. It's a, it was a matter of principle to me is I really wasn't afraid of dying. I don't know why I wasn't. So I was like, yeah, go ahead. Just, I just, I'm not, I just, my spirit is so strong.

Matt Gilhooly (13:57)
Yeah. And you didn't want to exist as someone that you were not, which it seems like if you had to conform, you would have been

Joy Kong, MD (14:01)
No, it was okay. Yeah.

Make it over. It's all right with me. I just, don't want to exist in a form that's not me. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (14:10)
Yeah, that's I mean, that's a lot for a kid to own. It's great. I think there's a greatness to it because, you know, you were, I guess not allowed to but you gave yourself permission to be you, right? versus

Joy Kong, MD (14:25)
Yeah. So

in a sense, I freed myself because my mom wanted to make me a certain way. And I basically just said no. So after years of struggle, my friends were saying, your parents are so cool. They don't bother you. They let you do whatever you want. So I asked my mom, said, hey, my friend said, you guys are really cool. She said, we have no choice. What can we do? So we'll just let you run wild. So I won.

Matt Gilhooly (14:28)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Did that serve you well in the community though, even though you were getting in trouble and those kinds of things, do you think that you were ostracized or any of those pieces that come along with that?

Joy Kong, MD (15:05)
you know, I, I wasn't the teacher's pet, but I was admired by the teacher's pet. So they were like, how can you do all this stuff? How can you do whatever you want? And so they were like secretly like really, yeah, had a lot of respect for, for my ballsiness. so I just, yeah, I just did whatever I wanted.

Matt Gilhooly (15:15)
Yeah.

Yeah, and you're in an environment in which learning was encouraged. there was it? Was it like a guarded learning? Or were you free to explore?

Joy Kong, MD (15:38)
Yeah, were,

yeah, we certainly can explore, but I didn't like some of the classes. I I loved almost all the classes except for the politics one and where we were fed ideology. And it was so boring. It was just like, my God, give me a break. especially at the time when I was in school. So I went into, what was

Matt Gilhooly (15:53)
Right. Right.

Joy Kong, MD (16:06)
So I went into elementary school, 1978. My God, that's a long time ago. That's when China was barely just opening up its economy, opening up to private enterprise. The first, it's okay to sell things on your own. So that's the very beginning. So China as a society was shifting. So it started to be the...

politics class started to sound like some government soundbite that's not aligned with what's going on in the society because we were still talking about socialism, communism, and so the rhetoric's did not change. But as a society, we started to embrace private enterprise. And it's like, what's going on? Why? Especially in 1983. Okay, so we're letting people do things that we said were not good.

They were capitalistic. So there was this huge discrepancy of what's going on in the economy and what's going on in the classroom. So of course I felt that was hypocrisy. So I, yeah, I didn't like that.

Matt Gilhooly (17:05)
Yeah.

Yeah. But you made it through, you made it through high school and all the things that come along with it there. See ya.

Joy Kong, MD (17:18)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's true. Yeah, I didn't I

didn't study a whole lot. But I I did. I did good.

Matt Gilhooly (17:24)
Okay, so you did enough to get by and what was your future going to look like?

Joy Kong, MD (17:27)
Yeah, I did enough to get to

I was sort of mediocre student. I always finish my homework really fast and then I just played and then then I did really well on exams. So I got into the best high school. And then in my high school, that's when I really rebelled. So when I was 13, my mom had cancer. She a form of well, it's a form of blood cancer.

Matt Gilhooly (17:31)
Okay.

Joy Kong, MD (17:52)
multiple myeloma. She was hospitalized. So she may be dying. Yeah, this is a very, very virulent disease. So I was confused as a teenager and then we had conflicts. Also, she wasn't very empathetic to me because she was dealing with her own struggles. I really rebelled. I started not to study at all. ended I didn't open my textbook at all.

for a whole semester. Like it was pristine. I did not open it. And I sat in the classroom sideways for the whole semester. I don't know why they let me do that. But I was just trying to talk with my friend behind me. So I was completely out of control. And I was hanging out with hooligans. I was hanging out with kids that were committing minor petty crimes or just drinking, smoking, doing things they shouldn't be doing. So for six months.

Matt Gilhooly (18:35)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Joy Kong, MD (18:48)
I was that bad kid. Yeah, so I went.

Matt Gilhooly (18:50)
And you knew you

were doing things you shouldn't have, but continue to do it? Okay. Yeah. Rebellion. mean, I think a lot of teenagers can, can, no matter where you are, I think a lot of teenagers have that period. Was it only six months and then you got yourself together? Okay.

Joy Kong, MD (18:53)
gosh, yeah, I was proud of it. Yeah, cigarettes and I was.

Yeah, not

only six months and my mom was so smart. She's a high school teacher, so she knows about psychology. So she said, Joy, your grades are so bad because I was at the very bottom of the class. They're so bad. There's no chance for you to get into a good high school. And if you can't get into a good high school, there's no chance you're going to get into college. So if you can't, you know, if we already know what why even bother? Why don't you just go to a trade school? So here I was this, you know, proud little girl.

who grew up on the most prestigious university in China, believing one day I'm going to be a college graduate. You know, I'm going to be somebody. And she was telling me, you know, when I was 14 years old to go to a trade school. And I was like, hell no. And everyone was saying that, oh, when you were a kid, you know, when a girl is 13, 14, if you fall behind academically, no one catches up.

And I said, who said? I'll show them. So that summer, I just took all my textbooks and I never opened. was like, okay, time to catch up. What did they talk about this whole semester? So I just started reading. was like, so I read the whole book of math. was like, got it, got it, got it. And I read the whole book of physics. I said, my God, that's what they were talking about. So I caught myself up during the summer. And then the next semester I aced, you know, I did really well in class. And so yeah, my parents were.

Matt Gilhooly (20:27)
Good on your

mom for playing that little trick.

Joy Kong, MD (20:29)
She, it worked.

Later on I asked her, said, did you, was that reverse psychology? She said, mm-hmm. She actually Very much so, very much so, yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (20:37)
Hey, you know, if it works, works. She got you back on track and I'm sure you're grateful for that at the same time. Yeah.

So how did life continue after that? Did you become more? Okay.

Joy Kong, MD (20:48)
Yeah, so I survived in high school. I became

a student leader. I was organizing activities and so really coming to recognize my own capabilities. so had a great time in high school, a lot of friends. And then I went to study actually architecture in a university in Beijing.

that at the end of first semester, don't know if you recall, but 1989, there was a Tiananmen Square incident where a lot of students lost their lives. There was a huge demonstration and that was my last year in high school. And of course, that was one of the leading universities in the movement. And so I was very much involved in, know, excited about the whole cause for democracy and all that. But

What happened was there was a crackdown on the amount of freedom that people were allowed because they were allowed a lot of freedom of speech. And then all of a sudden it became too much and the government probably felt that things were getting out of control. And then all these college students really rebelled, right? We were protesting.

when we were getting our education for free. So the government was really upset with all these college students. He's like, you ungrateful little bastards. Now we gave you all this and then you want to overthrow us. So what I did is, also at the time there was a problem of the brain drain in China. So the best and brightest often choose to leave the country to go to America or Canada.

Yeah, so those are the two most popular countries. so their policy was that if you want to leave, the government will allow you to leave, only after you. So if you have to, if you leave, you have to leave before the third year of college. If you can't, then you have to wait until you finish your college and work for five years in the government. And then they will give you a passport. They will allow you to go through the process.

So I was first year in college and architecture was five years. So I was gonna come to America for graduate school, know, just do architecture, because I loved architecture. It was so fun because it's so artistic and also there's engineering, there's sociology, psychology. I mean, it's just putting everything together, right? It's architecture is like the, it's structural art.

you know, requires technology. I mean, it's

really great for someone like me with a brain that I like incorporating different things into, into, you know, one cohesive whole. So I love the discipline, but I had to make a decision whether or not I would want to. So either I leave architecture by leaving early because I cannot apply for scholarships. And there's really no, any scholarships in architecture. don't.

get an undergrad scholarship in architecture. You can though, in basic sciences. So if you choose chemistry, biology, know, physics, in all those, you can get scholarships for undergrad, but not architecture. So yeah, exactly. So if I wanted to come to America, which has been my goal since I was 15. So I wanted to come to America, either I give up architecture and leave early before the third year of college, or I wait until

Matt Gilhooly (24:03)
Okay.

Okay.

Joy Kong, MD (24:17)
I finish studying architecture, work for five years for the government, and then I go to America. So that was a huge decision. a... Yeah, was 29. So that was a watershed moment. I thought really hard for three days and three nights whether or not I should leave the country or stay. And I made all kinds of logical charts of how...

Matt Gilhooly (24:25)
And you'd be what? Late, late twenties if you did that, right?

Mm-hmm.

Joy Kong, MD (24:45)
why I should leave, what's the benefit and what's the reason, good reason behind it. And so I thought and thought and thought. So I was trying to use my brain to figure out why. And really in my gut, I just wanted to go. then I overthrew all my justifications, like having a ventures. I can have ventures in China, seeing the world. I can see the world while I'm in China. I can read, I can blah, blah.

or a challenge myself of surviving in China and doing well. It's challenging. It's pretty challenging. So I really overthrew all my reasons. So three days and three nights of painful thinking using this limited organ. And then I just got so tired of it. I remember telling my friend, said, I'm done thinking. I don't know why I want to go to America. Okay. I don't know why, but I just want to go. So just that's it.

Matt Gilhooly (25:43)
I love

it. Yeah. That decision was made and no more architecture.

Joy Kong, MD (25:44)
So that decision was made. I don't know why. Yeah.

Yes. So I started.

Matt Gilhooly (25:53)
Was that heart wrenching though?

Like you're going to this place you wanted to go but now you're not gonna study what you want? Okay.

Joy Kong, MD (25:59)
No, just, I

pivoted. So I started studying, spending a lot of time studying English, because I had to be really proficient. So I was listening to English all the time. That was my music. So I had my headphone on all the time. just, you know, I need to be immersed in this language. So going from understanding only 30 % of what, let's say, Voice of America, that was the only channel.

that's really from a foreign source. So from understanding only 30%, I think I got to understand about 70 % when I came to the US. I remember in the classrooms, I think I was understanding still only 70%, but it got better and better. Of course, now it's 100%, but I had to work my way into that place. I was like,

Matt Gilhooly (26:47)
Yeah, that's... and at it like

not very young. I mean, you were young, but not like child young, which is usually when the language is easier to pick up.

Joy Kong, MD (26:53)
No, no, actually.

That's true.

People were always surprised. People thought I grew up in America. But no, I came here when I was 20 years old. So I had to train my brains. I was immersing my brain in the language. And I was doing other things. So I just decided, you know what? Now I'm free. I'm free from architecture. Now I'm just me. I want to develop myself. So I took a German class. I was like, OK, I'll study some German.

And then I started reading philosophies. started just, you know, doing things to enrich myself in other ways. So because psychologically I checked out of architecture, I still love buildings, but I'm not, I'm not driven anymore for my, yeah, for this profession. but, it was not easy to get, even get to the point of being eligible to apply for visa. took me 18 months to get all the tests.

all the reports from universities and schools, whatever the college application requires, and all the hoops you have to jump with the Chinese government, with the bureaucracy. was pretty silly, but I got to the point where I had everything. I had a $10,000 scholarship from the Clark University in Massachusetts. I thought for sure I was coming to America, and my parents went with me to the

Chinese and American embassy in Beijing. yeah, that's when there was a shocker. I had never been defeated. I didn't know defeat, I was defeated by the American embassy. They decided that I didn't care, know, 18 months of hard work, who cares? You want to come to America? Too bad. Why did they reject me? Because I didn't know anyone.

Matt Gilhooly (28:29)
Mm.

Joy Kong, MD (28:48)
that they believe is a legitimate, like a sponsor. Because you need American sponsor to fill out this affidavit support, basically financially guaranteeing that you're not going to become a burden of the American society, things go bad. So the only people we knew, my family knew, were my parents' students. And so my mom's student was the one that filled out the form. And the embassy do not believe.

Matt Gilhooly (29:01)
Got it.

Joy Kong, MD (29:14)
that that was incredible, which they were right on the spot because it was not. It was just for first show. I had no intention of relying on this person, not even a single dollar. I was going to just land, find a Chinese restaurant, just go, wash dishes, know, bus tables, whatever it takes. Right. I was ready to work. But yeah, but they didn't care.

Matt Gilhooly (29:19)
Right.

but you got rejected. And to

your point, you said that this was like the first defeat on something that you intentionally went for. Because I would beg to differ that maybe some of the things that you chose to do were a little defeatist when you weren't participating in school and those kinds of things. But this was something that you tried for. And they said no.

Joy Kong, MD (29:59)
Yeah.

And to be honest, I had a big ego. So I don't anymore because of my own development as a human, my own pursuit of spiritual understanding. So my expanding my own consciousness. But at the time I was an arrogant little kid. I thought I was the best. know, I'm, if I have a goal, I want to do something. Of course, you know, I'm going to get there because I'm doing it. And then

Matt Gilhooly (30:08)
Right. Yeah, you were a kid, too.

Well, and because

you had seen success before. You knew if you put your mind to it and you get all that affirmation, mean, like, why wouldn't you think that this is another cakewalk?

Joy Kong, MD (30:29)
That's true.

Yes. but my opponent was the first, my first, my, well, my first opponent was the Chinese apparatus, the Chinese to just get through, to get my passport. That was quite a journey. And then my second opponent was the American government. So I was trying to fight my way.

Matt Gilhooly (30:42)
There's an opponent.

Okay.

Joy Kong, MD (31:01)
through these two, you know, that's, that's the, you know, they were governing. mean, they were, you know, have the stronghold of the past to my destination. one didn't make it easy. The other one just flatly said no. So yeah, that was the, that's chapter one in my book, visa rejection, chapter one.

Matt Gilhooly (31:20)
Yeah, I I

mean, it makes sense to me. think there's two ways someone could go. Someone could say, the hell you're gonna say no, I'm gonna find a way to go. But there's a lot of people I think that would say, okay, I guess I wasn't meant to go. I'm not gonna try. Did you try on both hats or did you always know you were gonna fight? Okay.

Joy Kong, MD (31:39)
Yeah.

It was not in my DNA.

What happened was that the sharp contrast, because you have to realize I was so pumped up. was in my parents. We were going to, you they don't have much money, but they put all this money in all these different pockets because there were there were still pickpockets at the time. Now in China, there's no pickpockets because no one carries any cash anymore. Everything's electronic. At the time, people are carrying cash all over the place. So we were going to go after the

me getting my visa, we were gonna go to the big shopping area, get myself a suitcase, maybe one outfit. And then, you know, it was, I was so ready to just take, you know, get on the plane and, and then instead we all went home together. so it was, yeah, I had never felt defeat like that. I was, I was actually down. I felt like emotionally.

down, like some kind of grief, right? And then after three days, oh, and I don't know why my anger just kicked in. was like, who the hell are they? Oh yeah. I mean, that's it. So not anymore. I'm not going to feel bad anymore. I'm going to fight. So, so why did they reject me? So was like, why did they reject me? Okay. because I didn't have a good affidavit support. they didn't believe this person. So I just.

Matt Gilhooly (32:48)
You got that three day thing too.

Yeah.

Okay, valid.

Joy Kong, MD (33:06)
I just need a good old American, know, somebody that's, that's believable. That's a real American, not a Chinese student that's living in America, a real American. So how do I find a real American in China? That was 1990, Yeah, no, yeah. 1991. Yeah. How do I find a real American? That's when I, I wouldn't call it creative. I just think I just.

Matt Gilhooly (33:22)
makes it hard.

Resourceful.

Joy Kong, MD (33:32)
I guess, I don't know. All I know is that I just got mad. So what I did was that I figured I had to start somewhere and there's a phone book. So the phone book has all kinds of things in it, including hotels. So why don't I just start calling all these big hotels where the foreigners are in? that's the place they're at. So I decided just to call random rooms.

That was ballsy and it's definitely powered by anger and that's the tiger spirit. And that's why I think my book Tiger of Beijing, because you know, it's a little on the crazy side, right? Not a lot of people is gonna do that. But that just that force behind like I can't, I will not be able not to do it, because that's not in my nature. So I have to let it come through. So then I just started calling random rooms.

Matt Gilhooly (34:01)
That's ballsy.

Joy Kong, MD (34:29)
Most of them are empty. But the ones that are not, just have a pickup line. If it's a Chinese person that pick up the phone, I'll just say, hey, you want to learn English? If it's a foreigner that picked up the phone, I would say, hey, you want to learn some Chinese? It's very simple, right? I'm just like, whatever. So what happened was that I

Matt Gilhooly (34:31)
Great.

Yeah, trying to get in the door, essentially.

Joy Kong, MD (34:57)
and messing with the fabric of the universe, right? I'm poking at it. I'm making things a little different because if I'm just sitting there, nothing's going to happen. So I have to make some waves somewhere. So by calling these random places and people, then I started an adventure. And so I didn't know what's going to happen, but something better happened. So I talked about in the book. So I actually met some creeps.

Matt Gilhooly (35:00)
Mm-hmm.

Well, I'm sure. Probably more of those than the regular people.

Joy Kong, MD (35:30)
Yeah, well, you know, interesting, you know, there's there are Chinese creeps and there are foreign creeps. So then eventually I got in touch with a travel agency who has a big suite in the hotel. they really were impressed with my English, eventually asking me to become a tour guide to lead a whole group of Americans and Europeans to Tibet.

So that was my very first job. I was 20 years old and it was a 40 day trip where I took them to Chengdu and then to Tibet. We were in Tibet for a whole month, tracked in the Himalayans and that was a really, really incredible trip. But that was amazing. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (36:09)
Talk about adventure. So you

started like this, like you said, kind of creating waves in the universe to open, hopefully open the actual doors that you want to walk through.

Joy Kong, MD (36:22)
Right, right. And I thought part of the fun is not knowing what's going to happen. Oh, really? It's like, never know. Let's see. Let's see where this is going to lead. Yeah, so.

Matt Gilhooly (36:27)
Good for you. A lot of people don't love that feeling. Yeah.

Yeah, a

lot of people are afraid of that. I mean, it makes sense that you were not because of how you've described how you grew up. But at least I would say a lot of Americans that I know do not love the idea of, see what happens. There's a lot more people that like to know, okay, it might go like this or Michael like this or Michael like this. I'm not going to do it because those are all bad.

well, at least in my world, the people I know. So good for you for being that age and maybe that age I was a little bit more open to it. But I think there's a lot of people that have that fear of like the unknown more so than just sticking to what they know.

Joy Kong, MD (37:06)
okay.

It's always going to work out. That's the thing. It's always. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (37:20)
I that's

what I learned, but not until I was like 30-something.

Joy Kong, MD (37:26)
Hmm.

Yeah. So, but hey, eight months after my visa rejection, I landed in San Francisco.

Matt Gilhooly (37:31)
Yeah.

That's amazing. How did you how did you get the approval? Was it because of someone you knew through those jobs or was it still a little shady? OK.

Joy Kong, MD (37:40)
other, yeah, that was a whole other adventure. People had to read

my book. I can't tell the whole story.

Matt Gilhooly (37:45)
Yeah. Okay, fine. So, but maybe

you did or didn't know someone, but you got to America and you were able, okay. And you were able to start intentionally creating the life that you had envisioned, or was this still a adventure for you?

Joy Kong, MD (37:51)
I've met somebody.

What happened was that,

my book was only about three years of my life, starting with my visa rejection to escaping something that's really, really difficult for me, which was an abusive relationship in San Francisco. So basically I overcame two big obstacles. One is to get into America. I mean, that was really difficult. That's probably the most difficult thing I've ever done in my life.

Everything else is, know, compared to that, it's really downhill from there. But even, you know, doing stem cell therapy, know, even with the whole FDA, know, everything, the most difficult thing was unimaginable at the time. You know, at that time in China, there was no way because all my friends were telling me, Joy, why are you trying? Like you are trying to do something that's just about impossible. Like what are you thinking? So it was that difficult.

And

Matt Gilhooly (38:58)
because the government intentionally makes it that hard, right? Because they don't want you to leave.

Joy Kong, MD (39:02)
America

had very, very strict criteria. Just very few people can actually get a visa. So it was very difficult. Yes, for sure. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (39:09)
Okay, so was more the American side was harder than the Chinese side. Okay,

okay. I just thought maybe they didn't want you to leave like China, the Chinese side of the structure they didn't want you to leave to go to America.

Joy Kong, MD (39:23)
That part was hard too, but it's not as hard as the American side. Yeah, so that was the first obstacle. The second obstacle is very psychological because I think as a young woman, even I think people, even if you're older woman these days, a lot of times no one teaches you a pathological relationship could be like in a lot of people. And maybe even majority of the people have had

Matt Gilhooly (39:27)
No shock there.

Joy Kong, MD (39:51)
relationships that were not good, were with a person with an unhealthy psyche. And then they turned the relationship upside down. It doesn't have to be chaos drama, but there are people that are so insecure, are so self-centered, that it's all about satisfying their own desires and they don't care about the impact on you. So these are difficult relationships.

that I don't know what the percentage of people, but it seems like everyone I've talked to have all had one of those, but that's what I was stuck in. at the time, made it more difficult was that I had absolutely no support. I was so afraid of telling my parents because I didn't want them to worry. What could they do on the other side of the world? At the time it was like over a dollar a minute to talk to them. And so I didn't even have

money to talk to them and I don't want them to worry. So I couldn't tell them and my parents didn't want me to tell people that I actually married an American. Somehow my mom, so effectively none of my friends knew what's going on. So all my Chinese friends were cut off from me and my American husband at the time did not want me to have any friends either. He would prefer me to be very isolated and count on only him.

Matt Gilhooly (41:09)
Hmm.

Joy Kong, MD (41:14)
So I was extremely isolated, I had nobody to talk to. And my idea of me leaving this relationship would be that I would become homeless in San Francisco, which is cold. yeah, and worse, I would be sent back to China. That's a worse. So that was what I was facing.

Matt Gilhooly (41:16)
Yeah.

among other things.

Yeah, that's really challenging

too, in the way that you first of all, I'm sorry that you had to go through that. I'm so happy that we're talking now and you're now out of that, hopefully. Yes, right? Yes. Okay. But hearing the story of you growing up and your fortitude and your energy to learn and get bigger and better and all these things that must have felt so foreign to you to now be trapped in this situation.

Joy Kong, MD (41:47)
Cheers.

It's

very strange. It is very strange because I couldn't believe it. mean, this is a really interesting thing about, you know, this is a free country. Anyone can be whatever way they want. Because I met this man who grew up in San Francisco, and San Francisco is one of the most liberal cities in the world, right? And I thought America, that's where women's rights, you know, the women's movement started. And for sure, not exactly, but they were...

Matt Gilhooly (42:05)
Did you? Yeah.

Joy Kong, MD (42:35)
they're advanced in seeking liberty and freedom. So in China, we actually had a lot of freedom and equality, dramatic equality, because men and women make exact the same amount of money. And all my friends, the mothers, are always the one that's more powerful in the family, because they make the same amount of money and they do all the housework. So they take care of the family.

So to me, it seems like the women are always the boss. And so, but this man that I met, who was the most traveled, one of the two most traveled people in the world, who had been to all these different countries, over a hundred countries in the world, would have the idea that women's place is at home. Because somehow in his years of traveling, he believed that primitive societies got it all figured out.

that they were happier because women were gatherers and the men were hunters. So that's a more ideal system. So he rejected the modern society of what we are right now. So he said that's the root of all evil that we should just go back to our principles. But on the other hand, I was thinking, but I have all these capabilities. I'm a human being and I think I can do things. I'm smart. I think I can do

A lot of things I can, I can do most things that men can do except that, you know, men can lift heavier things and run a little faster, but all the other things I can do as well. I know I can't because I've seen it in my school. can, I can do it. So like, I don't want to limit myself and I want to do things. So, but he did not want me to do that. He will rather that I stay home and take care of.

Matt Gilhooly (44:03)
Right.

Yeah.

And the

fear keeps you in that spot until you have the ability to escape. And I don't mean escape in the literal sense, but maybe it was. Okay. Did you, did you have another moment where you had to really sit with yourself and, think the way you left architecture? Was it very a similar approach? Did you have like a

Joy Kong, MD (44:33)
It was. Yeah.

I knew I had to plan my escape.

Matt Gilhooly (44:48)
Okay. Yeah. I've talked to other people about very similar things and it's, it's like one day you just have to. Did you have that? It was just like you had to make the decision and go.

Joy Kong, MD (44:59)
Yes.

Well, this

is what happened to me and my spirit. I'm a strong person, right? You can see I'm a pretty, you know, a high spirited person. So a lot of times I'm like, yeah, I'm doing good. I'm doing good. But I remember being at home, you know, when he was at work and I was walking, I was going to school at the time I was walking around because he wanted me to do housework. So I was doing housework. So I was in the middle of doing something and then

Matt Gilhooly (45:07)
Yeah.

Joy Kong, MD (45:30)
In a split second, I was squatting on the floor and sobbing. there's something that I knew it was not right. My soul knew this is very painful. is the soul dying. And I just started to cry because there was so much pain. I was trying to brush off. So yes, the decision was,

Either I let my soul die or I get the hell out. Yeah. Yes.

Matt Gilhooly (45:59)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I'm glad you got the hell out. How did

you how did you build the life you have now from the ashes if you will there were like you could have you could have succumb to that experience and just you know faded into yourself.

Joy Kong, MD (46:18)
I have to give credit where credit is due. There's something beautiful about America in that there is a spirit of charity.

Matt Gilhooly (46:28)
Mm.

Joy Kong, MD (46:28)
I think maybe that's part of the Christian tradition. I don't know what it is, but to help people who are disadvantaged, because I was probably more disadvantaged than a lot of people, yeah, who were supposed to be, you know, the underprivileged, because I had nothing. I had no money. had no, no support. just, you know, but I was Chinese. So there were a lot of scholarships that were designed for people of the

do you call it, the affirmative action group, the people who were under, what's the word? Right. But I wasn't part of it. East Asians, somehow, even though historically we were very much discriminated against and the Chinese were brought over as slave laborers. I don't know how much better we were than slaves. We were barely better than slaves.

Matt Gilhooly (47:02)
underrepresented.

Joy Kong, MD (47:23)
But because it had done well academically, so we were excluded from any assistance, right? We were not underrepresented because Berkeley has a lot of Chinese already. Because we're just so eager to do well and work so hard. mean, you know how damn hard the Chinese work. Anyhow, that's a whole other conversation. So I wasn't part of I couldn't get help, any kind of break.

Matt Gilhooly (47:37)
Right.

Right. Even to just get here. Yeah.

Joy Kong, MD (47:51)
What was really difficult was at the time, I couldn't get even student loans because, long, well, when I was definitely, when I was married, because this person I was married to made a lot of money, even though he was not giving any to me. So he was using finances to control me. So, but then I wasn't eligible to borrow money because he was supposed to pay for it. But,

Matt Gilhooly (48:11)
Right,

Joy Kong, MD (48:19)
course he wouldn't, then I'm completely stuck because on paper I'm not eligible. eventually if I wanted to free myself, I have to be completely free from that relationship. But then I could borrow loans, but I wanted to get some scholarships. And what happened was that in San Francisco State, was a, because I decided to go into science, biology, because I love the mystery of life. And then

I was, you know, I saw a scholarship office for minorities. So I went to them, I said, hey, can I apply for the scholarship? And they said, we cannot by law, we cannot tell you that you cannot apply because, you know, we just can't say it, but you know, you can see, you know, the underrepresented group. And of course I wasn't part of it. And I said, well, and she said, you know what, we can't tell you.

not to apply, but just go ahead and apply. So I applied and they gave it to me. And I was shocked and thrilled. And what happened was actually the doctor, Dr. Bayliss, bless his heart, he went to bat for me when he was I think is NSF, National Science Foundation.

no NIH, I'm sorry. National Institute of health. So he was, they were questioning him. Why did you give scholarship to her? She's Chinese. She's not underrepresented. And he got so mad that people told me, you know, that, not he, him, but the people in the office said he slammed the table.

stood up saying, this is the best student we have and she deserves it and I have the constitution behind me so you do what you want.

Matt Gilhooly (50:09)
I mean, you need people to go to bat for you, because they believe in you.

Joy Kong, MD (50:09)
and they let it be.

yeah, so that that's partially of how I got through, you because because of faith and help and you know, yeah, because of scholarships like that.

Matt Gilhooly (50:22)
Yeah. I mean.

Like I said, so many people could fall rightfully so in the trap, right? I think a lot of people could get stuck in those relationships for longer than they ever wanted or maybe forever. And you got out and then you saw that people cared about you, whether they knew all about you or just a little bit about you. And, and it's like this trickle effect of like, I'm assured that the snowball started and started building and gave you the ability to do all these things. And then you just.

create what you described earlier in the conversation, this big life, this big full life.

Joy Kong, MD (51:01)
Well, it gave me a community. So when I got into

the scholarship, then we are a tight-knit group of these students who are exceptional, right? So we're all together learning new things and taking extra classes, and we're all bonded together. So that gave me like a home. So San Francisco State became that and did that for me. And then I went to New York to do a fellowship, like a little internship.

to do research project and also to follow a doctor, to decide, maybe to see what medicine is, medicine, science, and make a decision. And when I shadowed this doctor at Bellevue Hospital, an OBGYN, I just remember one morning, it was that gut feeling of being excited because I saw how she was interacting with patients and how the technology, the science were helping these people.

I thought this is just the coolest thing. This is just so fun that you get to utilize all this knowledge and then you help actual people. So one morning I was like, that's it. Because before that, I thought I was going to become a scientist. I was going to become a professor. So my whole trajectory, I thought I wanted to be a professor because my dad was a professor and I love a learning environment. And I always thought I could be a good teacher. What's funny is that now I am that.

Matt Gilhooly (52:07)
Mm.

Now you are.

Joy Kong, MD (52:23)
I have an academy and I train all these doctors.

Matt Gilhooly (52:24)
Yeah.

Joy Kong, MD (52:25)
So I ended up doing that anyhow, I always thought I was gonna be a professor. But then I realized I love the idea of becoming a doctor and that's it. So that's when I decided to apply for medical school and then I went to UCLA. And so I came to Los Angeles and never left.

Matt Gilhooly (52:44)
Yeah, I mean, and you built such a beautiful life. I mean, from what you've described, I don't want to dig into any other pieces, but you've built this life based on a passion based on a drive based on like what Americans, we say we dream about, but we don't actually do and implement. Like you did that. And it's so beautiful to see a story come out this way in a

Like I wanted, I saw, I wanted to heal and I loved how all these things came together. You were already talking about that with architecture now here in medicine. And then, then you realized further in your journey, you want to know more. So then you did that for 11 years. And then you like all these things that you have built for yourself when you could have like a lot of people probably did when you got that visa rejection, just said, okay, I guess I'm here. And like,

Joy Kong, MD (53:18)
Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (53:39)
It's it's it's

beautiful just to witness and see.

Joy Kong, MD (53:42)
Yeah,

yeah, definitely. You know, despite I know every country has problems, China has problem, America's problems. But as a country, it does give people tremendous opportunity. Just for the fact that I could study anything I want. That was not imaginable when I was in China, because we applied for our field. You know, we applied for college, we were finishing high school. And so at 18 years old, you're going to decide

Matt Gilhooly (54:00)
Mm-hmm.

Joy Kong, MD (54:11)
what you apply for different departments in one university. So if you don't get into this one and you go to the next one and then so everyone has different, you know, like a right cutoff point. So so then you end up in one university studying one of the few majors that you thought you may go into. So but once you're there, that's it. You've made your decision for life. So you want to change while that will be next to moving mountains that that's

I have a friend who got into one of the best universities, Beijing University, and he got into the nuclear department. And then this is a guy who's really creative. He's beautiful, he's an artist, he draws, but he's also very smart at sciences. And then when he went to study this nuclear physics, he didn't like it, he didn't care for it. So he wanted to study psychology, but guess what? What does it take to...

to study psychology in China, when you are in a nuclear physics department, you have to have letter from the psychology department professor, somebody that's professor there, to have to write a letter, basically a testimonial that you have an extraordinary talent in that field in order for you to even be considered to switch field.

So how do you prove that you have extraordinary talent in psychology? So he couldn't, doesn't matter what he wants, too bad. So when I came to America, literally I can change my major every other day. You can be whatever you want. That's right. I changed it. When I first came, I studied photojournalism. And then I decided, okay, I'm going to biology. It's just the amount of freedom. And then the fact that even if you don't have money, there's a system.

Matt Gilhooly (55:36)
Right, right, right.

you get stuck.

Some people do. Yeah.

Yeah. Hey.

Joy Kong, MD (56:02)
that will give you loans. So thank God there is a system that allow people to survive, right? Of course you can also work, but you can also borrow. So I think there's a lot to be said about the system that really help people to find their way.

Matt Gilhooly (56:14)
lot of opportunity.

Yeah, I think a lot of Americans, we just take it for granted. So we don't even see it. just, we just, we don't know other way, right? So we're like, well, that's just expected that we do these things. But I think you come when you've lived a different way and then you come here and you see the opportunities. Like you took them, like you took those opportunities, which like kudos to you for creating this life. then somewhere in your excess of time, which it doesn't sound like you have.

You also wrote a book about these these years. Like what brought you? Why did you decide you wanted to do that as well? Was it for you?

Joy Kong, MD (56:54)
You know, I really,

never had an intention of writing a book about my life for sure. but when I was in San Francisco, after I got out of that very difficult relationship and freed myself, and then, I was in school and I told somebody, actually a policeman friend about my story. And he said, my God, what a story. Cause he's seen everything right across the society. He had been a policeman for 30 years. He said, Joy, you've got to write that.

down, you've got to write a book. And he drilled it into me, you've got to write a book. And I was like, Oh my god, I've got to write a book, people need to read my story. So that he really ages, he drilled into me. So what happened was that I had a chance to take a year off in medical school. So I traveled, I went to Africa, I did some things, but also started writing this book. I thought, you know what, I've got some time on my hand. So let me just do this. So that was one of the best times because

I was living in a graduate student dorm at the time in San Diego, and then, you know, my boyfriend's place. And then I just went to Starbucks every day. I called that my office. I my little computer and I just started typing away, drinking my little latte. That was the best because I do like creative writing. And to be able to be creative, but telling your own story, that was just so fun and really,

I want to bring people with me. I want them to live as me, either in Beijing on the streets and smell the streets of Beijing and go with me to, you know, to Harbin, you know, where they have the ice festival or to Chengdu to Tibet and to the South and San Francisco. I mean, I wanted them to, yeah, to experience what it's like. So that was super fun. I finished two thirds of the book really quickly within five months. And so it was pretty quick.

The problem was I used to write journals. So I have a lot of journals. And I wrote down everything that was going on in my life, including the time that I was having tremendous difficulty in that relationship. So, you know, that was my own secret corner, right? I was writing in Chinese because he couldn't read it. Because I know if I wrote in English, he would have read it. So I wrote everything in Chinese. So that's my own world. So when I was writing the book,

The last third it was more, you know has a lot to do with a turmoil in that relationship So I was like, know, let me jar my memory and you know, see what happened at that time So I started reading it and the more I read it the more angry I got I I got so upset and I and I just like I literally said Screwed this I tossed it on the bed. I said who wants to read this shit?

Matt Gilhooly (59:44)
Fair. It was triggering. Yeah.

Joy Kong, MD (59:44)
I stopped. Yes, I

was pissed off and I didn't give a damn. Just forget it. So, and 17 years later, so, oh really? That's so interesting. Oh, so 17 years later, I became, know, more more known in the stem cell field. So I became, you know, this anti-aging, regent in medicine, doctor, pioneering kind of figure.

Matt Gilhooly (59:54)
Mm-hmm. I've heard this story a lot too. Yeah. Yeah, lots of writers.

Joy Kong, MD (1:00:13)
And then there are people who want to help get my name out there more, know, promote me. I people who are in the marketing world. And I said, you know, I said, I'm not just your regular doctor. I do have a very interesting life story. You know, I came from China, you know, I even wrote a book, but it's not finished. But so I told them a little bit of my life story. And then I remember this person said, wow, oh, my God. So when is the book going to be done? Like, when are you going to publish it?

I was like, I don't know. So he was like, so when? Just tell me when do you think you can finish a book? I said, in two months. So there I said it. So I must do it. So this time I decided no more journals. I'm not going to touch those journals. I'm just going to, you know, recount from my memory. I'm just going to tell the story after I finish writing it.

Matt Gilhooly (1:00:55)
must do it.

Okay.

Joy Kong, MD (1:01:10)
Maybe then I'll take my journal and see if I misrepresented anything, if there's any details that that will be good to include. So that's how I finished book. Yeah. So I think I published in 2019.

Matt Gilhooly (1:01:21)
love that.

Awesome. Well, congratulations on that. I've heard many people that have taken 15-20 years to put their book together for similar stories because certain things were too much at the time that they had to put it down and wait till the next thing. But look at you telling the universe, hey, two months from now, it's gonna be done. And you did it, which is not surprising at all now hearing your story.

I'm thinking

of this version of you and how busy you are and all the things that you're creating and helping people around the world now in this, you know, kind of butterfly effect, if you will, by helping one person. It's just impacting so many others with this mentality. Is there anything that you would want to tell that joy that was in the heap crying on the floor that day in your house?

Joy Kong, MD (1:02:12)
I've

gone through several tough times. think, right, so when I didn't know what direction to go and feeling like a trapped animal. So that was, but then I made up a plan. I knew what I was gonna do. So I was gonna carry it out. I just had to stay true to it and not deviate. And I did it. I did it. It was not easy, but I did it. And, then I tell people just because you're

won a battle, right? You came out winner. freed yourself. Doesn't mean that you don't have battle scars. So you get traumatized, you know, with different things, know, different cuts on your body. So I, even just growing up in China, I told you a little bit about what my parents hitting me. Even, you know, my mom who was a little bit domineering, all those things, the very judgmental culture of Chinese society.

There's so much about Chinese culture that's absolutely amazing. But there are also things about Chinese culture that's not so great. The judgmental nature of how you have to measure up to certain things and then you're always comparing yourself with others. I understand the pressure of doing well is so intense because there are so many of us and there are so few positions. I mean, my year

graduating from high school, even when only one out of seven students get to go to college. And my year was an easy year. And I'm from Beijing. It's an easy city because we're the capital. But from other provinces is a lot more difficult. But the year after me was even more. It was one out of 13. So you can imagine if you everybody want to go to college, you know, just about everybody. But if only one out of 13 can go.

Don't you think that they're gonna judge you and compare you with everybody? So why would they take you, right? You have to be above the vast majority. So understand the intense pressure because of the competition is driving some of this judgmentalness. But nonetheless, it's not so good for your spirit, right? Because you're always judging yourself. You're always criticizing yourself. So you're not really giving yourself the grace. That's something I have to learn.

So I judged myself very harshly there are insecurities as a result to the point where when I got into medical school, if I'm comparing myself with everybody, medical school is a great place to compare yourself with everybody. We have 150 students of the best of the best from the US, United States at UCLA. We're like the Harvard of the West Coast.

all exceptional students, same caliber as Harvard. So I started comparing myself with everybody. And I started to feel like nothing because I compared all their strengths against my normalness. Some people speak fluent Spanish. I didn't. So I felt bad. How come I don't?

Some people are great dancers. That's one of the majors or minors in college. like, well, I don't dance like that. Some people are Olympic athletes. I was like, shit, I didn't get into Olympics. So I started comparing myself. And some people that are geniuses that don't need to study and they have photographic memory. I don't have photographic memory. So was like, God, I'm not that smart. So I started to feel like you start to do all these comparisons,

And the next thing you know is that I became nothing. And then if I'm nothing, then why should I exist? Because I have no value. that's, I mean, that was the psychological trap that I ran into. So that's what I was going to write about in the second book, which is how you can heal yourself, how you can emerge out of your own trap.

find true happiness. You can find freedom. I mean, I was free, but I wasn't truly free. Psychologically, I was not free. But in circumstances, I was free. How do you reach happiness and peace? That is a long journey. That's much longer than escaping some abusive relationship. This is a long journey. So that took understanding. You have to be physically well, as I mentioned. You have to understand your psychology and why you react to things that you react and how you became the way you are.

and then you have to connect spiritually, understand your purpose in life. So that's easy said than done. Any one of those takes work.

Matt Gilhooly (1:06:49)
Yeah, no, I think,

I think it's important. I think it's important to say, and I think that there's always something to learn about something, but also about ourselves and how we can evolve and how we can be better versions of ourselves. However, we define that at least in my opinion, I think there's always an opportunity for me to improve the way that I show up in the world, whether it's for myself or for other people. So I think I, I take that point. think it's

I think we look at these moments of escape or you get out of something really hard and you're like, wow, that person is so big, brave, bold, all the things. But then we also forget that that person is probably has lots of broken pieces that they have to figure out how to put back together. And I think that's what's what I love about this show is that we kind of try to give the full breadth of it. And it's not just one day I woke up and everything was perfect.

is one

day I woke up and I felt a little bit different and I was able to move differently in the world and because of that, here I am. So I really appreciate you telling your story in this way. I think a lot of people will resonate with your story even if they don't have the same experience of living in one country and moving to another, but maybe part of that journey is very familiar to them. So if that happens to them and they wanna connect and find out more about you, read your book, get into your circle,

find you on Instagram or TikTok or wherever you are like what's the best way to to find joy? Okay.

Joy Kong, MD (1:08:20)
Yeah. So my book is on Amazon so they can get

Tiger Beijing. But if they want to know a little bit more about me, just my website, my name joy Kong MD.com or drjoy Kong.com. It really, it has different, you know, segments about everything I do from my clinic to the stem cell company I founded to the Academy that I have and the cosmetic company Char Omni and my memoir.

So everything's there. My podcast people can find my podcast, the Dr. Kong podcast everywhere. And then YouTube, I'm fairly active on YouTube. So all my podcasts and all my lectures and my videos where I teach people about different aspects of stem cells, they're all on there. So a lot doctors and a lot of patients actually have watched everything I have on YouTube because that's...

Matt Gilhooly (1:09:14)
Nice. Nice.

Joy Kong, MD (1:09:15)
It's free education and it's

Matt Gilhooly (1:09:16)
Yeah.

Joy Kong, MD (1:09:18)
really helpful stuff. then on Instagram, if they want to connect with me directly, my Instagram handle is doctor underscore joy underscore kong, K-O-N-G. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly (1:09:31)
Yeah, well, I will, I'll definitely link, definitely link your, your main website, cause it sounds like they can get to a lot of those places from your main website. And then I'll link some of the other ones that may not be as, as direct because I really encourage people to connect with guests and especially if their story resonated. It's not so much about, I think it's more for me about the human connection that they heard your story and now they feel a little bit more connected to the universe because

Joy Kong, MD (1:09:38)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Gilhooly (1:09:57)
they're not alone in whatever circumstance they felt or feelings that they had. I encourage people to find you and they can use the links that are in the show notes.

Joy Kong, MD (1:10:06)
Yeah, absolutely. If I can help somebody, yeah, would love to. thank you.

Matt Gilhooly (1:10:09)
You already did. You know,

like I feel like all of these conversations happen for a reason. Like we're not trying to teach anyone anything. We're trying to just share our stories and help others feel seen, feel heard, whatever it may be in their journeys that they're trying to figure out on their own. Because that's what we're all trying to do here. We're all trying to figure it out. So I really appreciate you, Joy, just wanting to be a part of this and also just letting me ask the weird questions that I ask.

Joy Kong, MD (1:10:37)
Yeah, it was a great questions because I've I've talked in more detail about what was going on, you know, in my book, you know, you know, some of the details of of the journey that I've never gone into that kind of detail. So you got it out of me.

Matt Gilhooly (1:10:50)
Well, I appreciate that. I

appreciate that and I feel like I know you now in so many ways. So I look forward to watching your journey and I still encourage anyone listening, if anything resonated with you, reach out to me, reach out to Joy. And with that, I'm gonna say goodbye and I'll be back in a couple days with a brand new episode of The Life Shift. Thanks again, Joy.

Joy Kong, MD (1:11:11)
Thank you, Matt.